Prepare for the mother of all s**t storms if Sweden pulls this off

Leongsam

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Prepare for the mother of all s**t storms if Sweden pulls this off

If Sweden, which has not locked down its economy and society, emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the true extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses

Sweden

Cheers, say the Swedes


the commentator
On 3 April 2020 08:36


In a word: Sweden. What happens if they pull this off? What happens if it turns out that we could have coped with COVID-19 without collapsing entire sectors of the economy putting millions on the dole, and imposing some of the most draconian restrictions on civil liberties in living memory?

Sweden has not closed the bars. Shopping malls are open. Schools and companies are open too. There are some restrictions such as on gatherings of over 500 people. But, in comparison with most European countries, life in Sweden is relatively normal.

Right now, Sweden's death rate from coronavirus is 33 per million of the population. In France it is 83. In Italy it is 230. In Britain it is 43. In the Netherlands it is 78.

In the United States the number of deaths per million of the population is 18, but many argue that the outbreak in America took off later, and European levels of fatality from the virus are on their way. We shall see.

But, in any case, which levels of European fatality? The figures are all over the place. Partly this must be due to different ways in which the death toll is being counted.

In some countries, COVID-19 is being listed as the cause of death merely if it appears somewhere on the death certificate. In other words, you may have been days away from dying from terminal lung cancer, but if you had contracted COVID-19 in the meantime, your death will be listed in the overall COVID-19 fatality numbers. In other countries, it has to have been the single most obvious cause of death to make it into the same statistics.

Sweden appears to be in the latter category, which may be making their numbers look a little lower than in countries which list things differently. But probably not enough to radically change the comparisons.

That will all be looked at closely when all this is over.

But if, when all such necessary adjustments have been made, Sweden emerges with a death toll from COVID-19 that is somewhere in the middle of the pack of European countries, there is going to be a lot of recrimination, particularly against those who have tried to silence any discussion about the extent of the threat that COVID-19 actually poses.

What is interesting though, is that precisely because it is Sweden, the usual suspects in our politics who benefit from disillusionment with the establishment may find it hard to profit from this. The Swedish government is led by Stefan Loeven, a Social Democrat.

Sweden is practically a role model for mainstream, left of centre politics. If you're a European populist, it's going to be more than a little incongruous to start singing the praises of Sweden, of all countries.

Similarly in America. Donald Trump has, albeit reluctantly, broadly followed the lockdown policies we see across most of Europe. Unless he very quickly does a 180 degree turn (and don't rule that out) how can he profit from his usual disdain for the way things are done by the establishment?

That said, if this particular "Swedish model" wins the day, someone is going to get it in the neck. The question is, who?
 
the lower number of wuhan-infested spas, massage parlors, and nail salons helps tremendously.:alien:
 
Adopt the "Swedish model" at your own peril.

5 April 2020
View attachment 74900
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

The numbers look fine as Sweden will soon be well on its way to herd immunity.

The numbers cannot be taken just at face value. They need to be put into perspective just like everything else in life.

Sweden has a population of 10.2 million. It has an annual flu death rate of 15.7 per 100,000.

10.2 million divided by 100,000 = 102 x 15.7 = 1601.4 per year divide by 12 again is 133 deaths per month.

If Sweden can live with flu causing 133 deaths per month and life goes on as normal why can't they do the same for the coronavirus?
 
The numbers look fine as Sweden will soon be well on its way to herd immunity.

The numbers cannot be taken just at face value. They need to be put into perspective just like everything else in life.

Sweden has a population of 10.2 million. It has an annual flu death rate of 15.7 per 100,000.

10.2 million divided by 100,000 = 102 x 15.7 = 1601.4 per year divide by 12 again is 133 deaths per month.

If Sweden can live with flu causing 133 deaths per month and life goes on as normal why can't they do the same for the coronavirus?
I see where you are coming from, and I understand. I am going to assume the annual flu death rate of 15.7 per 100,000 in Sweden is accurate because you did not cite your source. But it is dangerous to compare mortality rate for covid-19 to the seasonal flu. It's still too early, the dust hasn't settled. So far, all we know are :

The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. Doctors and scientists are working on estimating the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be higher than that of most strains of the flu.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

It's important to note that seasonal flu, which causes outbreaks every year, should not be confused with pandemic flu, or a global outbreak of a new flu virus that is very different from the strains that typically circulate. This happened in 2009 with the swine flu pandemic, which is estimated to have killed between 151,000 and 575,000 people worldwide, according to the CDC. There is no flu pandemic happening currently.
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
 
Sweet! Let’s see if herd immunity works. The Krauts and the French had it bad, Brits isn’t anywhere near either, the worst hit would be the Italians and Spaniards.
 
I see where you are coming from, and I understand. I am going to assume the annual flu death rate of 15.7 per 100,000 in Sweden is accurate because you did not cite your source. But it is dangerous to compare mortality rate for covid-19 to the seasonal flu. It's still too early, the dust hasn't settled. So far, all we know are :

The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. Doctors and scientists are working on estimating the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be higher than that of most strains of the flu.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

It's important to note that seasonal flu, which causes outbreaks every year, should not be confused with pandemic flu, or a global outbreak of a new flu virus that is very different from the strains that typically circulate. This happened in 2009 with the swine flu pandemic, which is estimated to have killed between 151,000 and 575,000 people worldwide, according to the CDC. There is no flu pandemic happening currently.
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html

I get all my stats from published sources.

Here's an example of the mortality rates for the 2018 to 2019 influenza season in the USA

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

Screenshot 2020-04-05 18.35.14.png


The mortality rate for the 65+ age group was 48.7 per 100,000.

I can only think of ONE reason why the media is downplaying flu and exaggerating Covid-19 and that is to maintain an atmosphere of fear and apprehension which attracts clicks and viewers. In the USA it is obviously political.
 
In my opinion Covid-19 vaccine research will die a natural death not because the vaccine is ineffective but because in a couple of months the drug companies will do their sums and conclude that they'll never make any money so there'll be no point pouring more money into the project
 
If everyone kena the virus at the same time, 50% will die from the virus...
 
I get all my stats from published sources.

Here's an example of the mortality rates for the 2018 to 2019 influenza season in the USA

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/2018-2019.html

View attachment 74954

The mortality rate for the 65+ age group was 48.7 per 100,000.

I can only think of ONE reason why the media is downplaying flu and exaggerating Covid-19 and that is to maintain an atmosphere of fear and apprehension which attracts clicks and viewers. In the USA it is obviously political.
I did a search and found the stats for the US too but could not locate the stats for Sweden. So I don't know how you derived Sweden's number. Anyway it doesn't matter. At this point in time, covid-19 has proven to be more infectious and insidious than the seasonal flu. So Sweden either knows something the world doesn't or it is toying with their peoples' lives. (herd immunity? Maybe.) For a population of 10.15million, they already have almost 6,500 cases and approaching 400 deaths. Herd immunity has a huge price and they seem to be willing to pay for it.
 
Sweden is different. They are social democrats. That means they welcome virus and refugees lovingly.
 
You need about 60% of the population infected to achieve herd immunity.
 
I did a search and found the stats for the US too but could not locate the stats for Sweden. So I don't know how you derived Sweden's number. Anyway it doesn't matter. At this point in time, covid-19 has proven to be more infectious and insidious than the seasonal flu. So Sweden either knows something the world doesn't or it is toying with their peoples' lives. (herd immunity? Maybe.) For a population of 10.15million, they already have almost 6,500 cases and approaching 400 deaths. Herd immunity has a huge price and they seem to be willing to pay for it.

It's a huge price only if you look at the 400 deaths just as an absolute number.

You have to view covid-19 statistics in relation to what the deaths would be without the Covid-19 factor.
 
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You need about 60% of the population infected to achieve herd immunity.

I'm sure that number will be reached sooner rather than later no matter what is done. It's a virus from the coronavirus family. They cause 15% of all common colds and I'm sure when they first arrived in humans they killed a considerable number too.
 
Looks like Sweden just got it’s number of deaths doubled over the few days.

89EF8FD5-9764-4BBE-9C3F-2E68C0DE66ED.png
 
The place to monitor the success of Sweden's response strategy is not by these meaningless case and death counts.

What needs to be tracked is the additional deaths as a result of Covid-19 in the country.

This can be measured using the z scores at https://www.euromomo.eu/

Screenshot 2020-04-13 18.35.18.png


The graph so far does not show any statistically significant increase in the death rate.

7,990 people die monthly in Sweden. 900 have died of Covid over the last couple of months.

The Swedes, being the intelligent people that they are, have probably worked out, based on the stats, that the number of additional deaths because of Covid is very low.

Of course the raw numbers will be used to apply political pressure on the government from those opposing their strategy to suit their own agenda. However as long as the government feels that it has the support of the majority they should be able to hold their nerve and their infection rate is already flattening out without having the break any circuits.
 
I see where you are coming from, and I understand. I am going to assume the annual flu death rate of 15.7 per 100,000 in Sweden is accurate because you did not cite your source. But it is dangerous to compare mortality rate for covid-19 to the seasonal flu. It's still too early, the dust hasn't settled. So far, all we know are :

The COVID-19 situation is changing rapidly. Since this disease is caused by a new virus, people do not have immunity to it, and a vaccine may be many months away. Doctors and scientists are working on estimating the mortality rate of COVID-19, but at present, it is thought to be higher than that of most strains of the flu.
https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/hea...ronavirus/coronavirus-disease-2019-vs-the-flu

It's important to note that seasonal flu, which causes outbreaks every year, should not be confused with pandemic flu, or a global outbreak of a new flu virus that is very different from the strains that typically circulate. This happened in 2009 with the swine flu pandemic, which is estimated to have killed between 151,000 and 575,000 people worldwide, according to the CDC. There is no flu pandemic happening currently.
https://www.livescience.com/new-coronavirus-compare-with-flu.html
Guess those that advocate lockdown got nothing better to say than it's too early etc etc. Wat early? This virus has been around since dec. 5 months still too early? Than when will have enough data? When the pandemic is over? The data now already proves its mortality rate is low like the flu. No need to keep justifying the over reactions of world gahmen n the incompetence n corruption of WHO n Ah tiong land
 
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