Plea to Function 8

[scroobal]

Guys

You are playing with fire. You are pushing the envelope and you are not in a position to come out of this any better.

I was surprised to find out that the old group is re-forming with James and Ron in the mix. I have no issues if these are done with great care but do not allow this adventurism to sabotage the momentum that has been given good outcomes during GE11 and PE11. Lets not give people excuses to cut the ones who can make a difference at the knees.

I am referring to VW and SDP. Let them take the path that is clear of bear traps and unnecessary obstacles. Singaporeans cannot afford to lose a man thats comes closest to the old man in terms of clarity of thought, impressive power of articulation, fire in the belly and a tremendous sense of mission but with compassion.

The Intelligence Services has a duty and they do it professionally. They unfortunately do not make the decisions and there are always multiple agendas that has to be met.

I was stunned find out that CO training was undertaken. My first thought - you guys are mad. And with the usual suspects. Absolutely mad.

Having separate FBs is not a solution. There must be a clear separation or the rest of Singapore pays the price. Please see the big picture. Well aware of social injustice within our midst and completely on board to address this but get your priorities right. Breaking the yoke of single party rule must be the primary driver. It goes towards wider options for all Singaporeans. In contrast, the plight of foreign workers sadly has to take a lower priority. Fully aware of abduction and forced deportation of workers seeking redress and the failure of MOM to do the right thing. Voices in parliament is the answer. Not stop gap measures.

Leave Alex Au alone. He has been the lone single voice of reason. We all look forward to the occasional cry in the dark to get a sense of hope.

Lastly do not think that the current lot has mellowed and are with the times. All they need is a known clandestine operator and everyone gets buried.

 

[Bigfuck]

This reminds of the tairo and genro plotting of Japan in the Black ship days. Whatever you and others think and plot, other bigger things are at play that will turn the balance. I do not think the direction and outcome will be so clear this time. It is clear there are trigger happy jokers of the 65 era. But the connected global dynamics makes this a very different game that I do not think is easy to see. Clandestine operators are not limited to one party, one country and one faction these days.

 

[mojito]

No like Function 8. Fringe group. Cause just but motives publicly viewed as selfish. Lost cause. Guilt by association. Lose middle ground.

 

[Asterix]

No like Function 8. Fringe group. Cause just but motives publicly viewed as selfish. Lost cause. Guilt by association. Lose middle ground.

That's because you have NO BRAINS along with your advanced stage of lung cancer. Fidel Castro is going to die soon, like your master the Old Fart. Instead of putting the cigar in your mouth, you should SHAFT IT UP YOUR ASS, for that's where it belongs. Idiot FUCKTARD. :oIo::oIo::oIo:

 

[scroobal]

This lot is driven by 2 issues. Some have one and others both.

1. A genuine desire to help the exploited no matter what they their race, colour, creed etc is. Very commendable
2. To seek closure for themselves and their group over Operation Spectrum detention.

Sadly they have not accepted that some were exploited by hidden hands. So these guys don't see the big picture. Now they are dragging the SDP, VW and Alex Au into their orbit. Its like Louis Ng, his Ang Mo wife with their organisation Acres doing their Dolphin stunt at Speakers Corner with highly impressionable women and children. While the bus strike was still raw.

We cannot afford to lose VW, SDP and Alex and certainly not at a stage where there is momentum after the commendable performance by nearly all opposition parties during GE2011 and the commendable shift by voters during PE2011.

They need to step back. I now realise that recent Archbishop incident is not isolated. TCH is not going sit by with his thumb firmly stuck in. He is eventually going to pull it out. All he needs is a foreigner or an agent provocateur of known colour and we lose 3 entities for small gains.

No like Function 8. Fringe group. Cause just but motives publicly viewed as selfish. Lost cause. Guilt by association. Lose middle ground.

 

[Bigfuck]

all he needs is a foreigner or an agent provocateur of known colour and we lose 3 entities for small gains.

Let it happen. It ain't going to be so simple. He is not the only person who can pull rabbits out of the bag and others are watching. You pull we all can pull

 

[metalmickey]

Maybe I'm a little slow here. What are we talking about? Another Operation spectrum? Suppose that were to happen. Who suffers? Will it have a chilling effect on the nascent opposition movement? Will it blow up in the gahment's face?

Some things are really hard to figure out.

 

[scroobal]

You are not slow. You seem to know what is being pursued.

The 3 entities are slowly but surely being dragged into an orbit that is not safe. 2 foreigners who were part of the originating concern in the 70s that eventually led to Ops Spectrum have returned in recent times and doing the same thing. After I saw VW's long article and I sensed that something was amiss and checked. I nearly I fell off my chair. The remand of the 4 drivers. Then the recent Archbishop incident started to connect. I am sure Archbishop quickly withdrew his letter after being told what was happening. Not by intimidation as I originally thought.

Ops Spectrum was to flush out something. It served its purpose and also yielded an unexpected bonus - Hank from the US embassy. The people making the most noise are not the people of concern. Whether they knew or chose not to know or really did not know is hard to ascertain and to be honest people in charge of national security can't waste their time wondering. They act in a decisive manner.

I doubt there will be another operation of Ops Spectrum scale but whatever it is we cannot afford to lose any of the 3.

Maybe I'm a little slow here. What are we talking about? Another Operation spectrum? Suppose that were to happen. Who suffers? Will it have a chilling effect on the nascent opposition movement? Will it blow up in the gahment's face?

Some things are really hard to figure out.

 

[metalmickey]

I only know as much as I can glean from the previous thread:

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?99578-ISD-ISA-Marxist-Conspiracy-TT-and-TCB

Anyway - if those operatives were the same ones from the "Marxist conspiracy", it's not really a Marxist conspiracy, is it? Because the commies are dead?

Secondly, another operation spectrum is going to make the gahment look really really bad? Like how are they going to communicate to the public that function 8 / strike are linked to covert ops? More importantly, how are they going to convince them? Because until recently I thought that all the allegations in the "Marxist conspiracy" were trumped up.

Last, if this was an attempt by a foreign government to "destablise Singapore", how could it be worse than handing half of your transport fleet to a bunch of foreigners whose motivation to work for you is suspect, especially since you treat them like shit?

 

[aurvandil]

The window for an operation is quite small. 2013 would be the only year. The world has changed and no one can predict the impact of an operation held too close to 2016.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo,

Its really sad, but Function Eight should really be named " Function of the Eighties" . They have had no closure from the arrests, a deep abiding sense of injustice and a long sense of the need to campaign against the perceived injustices done to them. Seperate FB accounts are not new, heck even the PAP does it. their private views need to be shared amongst they trust, but only a fool would assume to trust everyone and everything on facebook.

Clandestine Ops training ? I doubt So Lung and gang would have the necessary discipline and trade craft necessary to run a cell or to maintain discipline. If I were a cell leader, I would note their temprements , and say that they would be the greatest danger to my cover been blown or for them to become a substantive disruptive political force or a asset in place. Teo So Lung and function eight are not "assets" in any conventional matrix, whilst intelligence convention has "dissidents" as "assets" , the history of dissedents as assets is one of dismal failure, I note " Curveball" etc etc. The usefulness of any assets especially a dissident , its the stature of its leaders, its influence and its networks. F8 fails by all standards. Can So Lung with her history build anything in the form of a broad based coalition ?

Whatever self given or taught training is because of the persecuted syndrome they all have gone through. They will protest against anything and everything as long as its against the PAP with their ISA grievances as a base. The danger is allowing them to contaminate causes which have some basis.

Come to think of it, thats how their MO was in the eighties to which got them into trouble with the ISA. A network of social issue NGO's which they started to infiltrate :_)).


Locke

Guys

You are playing with fire. You are pushing the envelope and you are not in a position to come out of this any better.

I was surprised to find out that the old group is re-forming with James and Ron in the mix. I have no issues if these are done with great care but do not allow this adventurism to sabotage the momentum that has been given good outcomes during GE11 and PE11. Lets not give people excuses to cut the ones who can make a difference at the knees.

I am referring to VW and SDP. Let them take the path that is clear of bear traps and unnecessary obstacles. Singaporeans cannot afford to lose a man thats comes closest to the old man in terms of clarity of thought, impressive power of articulation, fire in the belly and a tremendous sense of mission but with compassion.

The Intelligence Services has a duty and they do it professionally. They unfortunately do not make the decisions and there are always multiple agendas that has to be met.

I was stunned find out that CO training was undertaken. My first thought - you guys are mad. And with the usual suspects. Absolutely mad.

Having separate FBs is not a solution. There must be a clear separation or the rest of Singapore pays the price. Please see the big picture. Well aware of social injustice within our midst and completely on board to address this but get your priorities right. Breaking the yoke of single party rule must be the primary driver. It goes towards wider options for all Singaporeans. In contrast, the plight of foreign workers sadly has to take a lower priority. Fully aware of abduction and forced deportation of workers seeking redress and the failure of MOM to do the right thing. Voices in parliament is the answer. Not stop gap measures.

Leave Alex Au alone. He has been the lone single voice of reason. We all look forward to the occasional cry in the dark to get a sense of hope.

Lastly do not think that the current lot has mellowed and are with the times. All they need is a known clandestine operator and everyone gets buried.

 

[mojito]

This lot is driven by 2 issues. Some have one and others both.

1. A genuine desire to help the exploited no matter what they their race, colour, creed etc is. Very commendable
2. To seek closure for themselves and their group over Operation Spectrum detention.

I couldn't have said it better. I am a firm believer of the ISD as a deterrence to espionage and other nasties that could be lurking in the shadows. Dismantling it would lead to a small gain in liberty at the expense of national security. It is necessary as our last line of defense.

Agree with your assessment on the interlocking relationship between the 3 entities, acknowledge possibility of foreign influence. Assess it to be unlikely that ISD will be activated, paradoxically because anti-ISD lobby in the form of Function 8 exists. Other avenues exist to discredit politicians, recall gay agenda video with SDP's fling with the 377A interest group.

Expressly I am puzzled as to how VW and SDP can hope to benefit from associating with Function 8, but then that just proves I don't understand politics of the new age liberal left. Acres is truly grating on the nerves but it does demonstrate how one can mobilize young people for abstract causes. Jeering of PAP candidates in both the GE and PE signals a young demography among supporters. Ever wondered why many hard core liberals are under-30?

 

[scroobal]

Bro, the communists went with the dinosaurs sometime. The only ones who are flying the flag are family members who keep repeating that its in the National Archives in Kew Gardens.

This is something that first appeared when Jurong Industrial Estate first started to bloom. It began somewhere in Chicago and takes an aggressive but legal approach to industrial agitation. Human resource is the only tangible natural resource we have. So any attempt to undermine the control of this resource falls into the remit of national security. So what is legal in the US is not the same here.

The Catholic Church has a number who are closely linked to it been involved since the 1970s. All pure of heart but it tenses this govt immensely.

I only know as much as I can glean from the previous thread:

http://www.sammyboy.com/showthread.php?99578-ISD-ISA-Marxist-Conspiracy-TT-and-TCB

Anyway - if those operatives were the same ones from the "Marxist conspiracy", it's not really a Marxist conspiracy, is it? Because the commies are dead?

Secondly, another operation spectrum is going to make the gahment look really really bad? Like how are they going to communicate to the public that function 8 / strike are linked to covert ops? More importantly, how are they going to convince them? Because until recently I thought that all the allegations in the "Marxist conspiracy" were trumped up.

Last, if this was an attempt by a foreign government to "destablise Singapore", how could it be worse than handing half of your transport fleet to a bunch of foreigners whose motivation to work for you is suspect, especially since you treat them like shit?

 

[scroobal]

It will never be the scale of Spectrum. It might a few individuals, short detention, released with restrictions. Enough to frighten the monkeys.

The window for an operation is quite small. 2013 would be the only year. The world has changed and no one can predict the impact of an operation held too close to 2016.

 

[scroobal]

Nothing clandestine. No cell. Done in the open. But still playing with fire. They know exactly what I am talking about. I have no issues with martyrdom. Just don't drag people who can get into parliament and make a difference into this.

"Community Organisaton" is a philosophy that encourages an aggressive approach to worker protection and rights within the legal framework. A US construct. These are same guys who watch too much American TV and when the Police raid, they will ask to see the search warrant.

They deported 29 PRC drivers while the 4 ringleaders were held in remand. Would you not wait for the remand to be completed which is interrogation/investigation? They are not interested in the foreigners. So if they are not interested in the foreigners who else is left.

Dea

Scroo,

Its really sad, but Function Eight should really be named " Function of the Eighties" . They have had no closure from the arrests, a deep abiding sense of injustice and a long sense of the need to campaign against the perceived injustices done to them. Seperate FB accounts are not new, heck even the PAP does it. their private views need to be shared amongst they trust, but only a fool would assume to trust everyone and everything on facebook.

 

[scroobal]

Like butterfly to flames. All 3 are socially responsible. 2 are trained in social work or did this academia stint in it. They do not stand by and watch. VW led TWC2. SDP always had a human rights and social agenda.

Expressly I am puzzled as to how VW and SDP can hope to benefit from associating with Function 8, but then that just proves I don't understand politics of the new age liberal left. Acres is truly grating on the nerves but it does demonstrate how one can mobilize young people for abstract causes. Jeering of PAP candidates in both the GE and PE signals a young demography among supporters. Ever wondered why many hard core liberals are under-30?

 

[aurvandil]

The current faction ridden internal politics of the PAP require a huge amount of time and consenus building before anything like this can be done. Given the small window, the optimum strategy would be to go quiet and start agitation in 2014/2015. With 2016 looming, I am sure they will find a sympathetic year. Am fairly confident the internal politics of the PAP will not permit an operation within 2 years of 2016.

It will never be the scale of Spectrum. It might a few individuals, short detention, released with restrictions. Enough to frighten the monkeys.

 

[scroobal]

The PAP benefits from the fallout. They don't initiate these things. The govt has to act. Might even be a court prosecution for abetting or instigating. The point is to focus on the bigger agenda of getting into parliament.

The current faction ridden internal politics of the PAP require a huge amount of time and consenus building before anything like this can be done. Given the small window, the optimum strategy would be to go quiet and start agitation in 2014/2015. With 2016 looming, I am sure they will find a sympathetic year. Am fairly confident the internal politics of the PAP will not permit an operation within 2 years of 2016.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo

A community organization ? Yes they have been drinking from the fountain of the Obama Play Book but honestly CO is just a fancy name and term for NGOs Grass Roots organizations etc etc, VWOs. Oh yes the biggest legal CO is gov funded and its the PA .

But honestly if it means for effective grass roots work to political ends its quite good as sdp has had a long standing weakness in the area

Locke






=scroobal;1317253]The PAP benefits from the fallout. They don't initiate these things. govt has to act. Might even be a court prosecution for abetting or instigating. The point is to focus on the bigger agenda of getting into parliament.[/QUOTE]

 

[aurvandil]

I am not quite sure of this assessment. If all it took to stay in power was a return to the old iron-fisted ways, the PAP won't need the excuse of F8 to round up and detain people. My take is that the fallout will be overwhelmingly negative. Those seeking action will need to convince the others that it will be better to take action now and contain the negative fallout rather than to let F8 run free and attack them in 2014/2015.

The PAP benefits from the fallout.