Petition to Mr. Tan Kin Lian

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Looks like it, bloody pathetic if you ask me. Reeks of what happened to Andrew Kuan. Hope Tan Kin Lian is not as flakey as Andrew Kuan. Looking at TKL's reply to Chua's letter it seems that TKL is astute and canny thus far.

The risks of course is that any Ex PAP if senior enough will be come a "shit magnet" if he choses to leave and break "Omerta" . I believe Mr Chua is the first step.




Locke

 

[scroobal]

The problem as I see it now is that "PAP's stable" is very broad if you consider the whole Singapore Establishment. OTC was from PAP's inner select stable and yet he turned out to be a surprise of sorts. Ngiam Tong Dow would probably be tarred with the same PAP brush, even Tommy Koh & Ho Kwon Pin. So how? Perhaps a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. I guess we got to start somewhere and hope for the best.

I don't agree that PAP stable is broad. I would however suggest that there are many more ably qualified singaporeans but they will not put their hands up. The Presidents office is already tarnished and they would not want to be associated with it. Thats probably why, no one of calibre stepped forward for the last contest as well as the first. Though Chua did not come from PAP's stable, he had to be persuaded. I thought it was hilarious when Chua in his interview said that Goh approached him when Goh and PAp endorsed Ong and put NTUC behind Ong.

Following that line of reasoning, all that remains are those in PAP's stable. In that sense, Tan Kin Lian would be a "suitable" candidate.

 

[scroobal]

TKL was probably a PAP cadre going by the 'formbook'.

spot on...

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

I think it is going to be pretty difficult to find a person/small group of local "elites" (I use this word in a general sense acknowledging the apparent reality that most if not all socieites are governed by the "elites") who are not in Singapore's Establishment and do not have some contact with the PAP government however loose and indirect. Singapore appears to be too small a place and PAP's tentacles are everywhere now even abroad as well.

So that being said, where do we then find the reasonably credible alternatives of substance? Unless you are looking at generations X, Y, Z and beyond?

I know many people will not join PAP or its associates because they do not want to give their support tacit or otherwise to a system that is wrong in principle. Where do you think Tan Kin Lian was when Chia Thye Poh, Lim Hock Siew were languishing in Changi. Where do think associates that Devan Nair played out ended up.

With your line of reasoning, we will end up with PAP endorsed, groomed and acceptable candidates providing "alternate view"

Are we looking for Mother Theresa or someone to shaft this govt and get back on the tracks of democracy. Are we looking for Einstein or someone who will destroy the dictatorial structures that have been built over 49 years that can be abused by a deranged individual.
.

From Leong's silence and worst still his recent public emergence with puzzling contradictory statements in TNP appearing to absolve Teo Ho Pin and gang of any blame viz the TCs failed investments in the Lehman Minibonds, cast some shadows over Leong.

Notice that Leong Sze Hian reticence on a subject that he used to write letters and grab attention on when the High Notes epsiode erupted.
.

Looks towards heading in this direction, barring unforeseen circumstances. General perception seems to be that everyone from the banks/FIs/FPs downwards honestly believed that the Lehman Minibonds were relatively low risk products. As that SIAS chap advised in his Today article, probably going to be an uphill task for the individual retail investors to prove misrepresentation and mis-selling.

I can tell you the outcome of the Structured Notes Investigation by MAS right now. DBS will be fined the most on basis that they had the most vulnreable numbers in their books. Others will be at a lower level. If you do not fall into the vulnreable categorym, you will not see a penny. This is an unexpected financial event in our lifetime. Nobody expected this. The herd instinct is however very much part and parcel of our lives.
.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

klimmer said...
It might be blindingly obvious but it's my personal opinion that the Singapore Government and all it's affiliated or remotely affiliated organisations aim to take as much money away from Singaporeans in order to lock them down in Singapore.

Singaporeans with money typically look overseas, resulting in a net outflow of capital. Especially since the younger generation of voters are not so malleable as the previous generations, it becomes critical for the ruling faction to control as many aspects of

The deep rooted problems, in all these decades, under one party has caused peasant to be poor and remained poor forever.

The monies they sucked from us, through cpf, pigeon holes, hikes, encourage peasant to accept low wages, open floodgate for FT to make peasant jobless and unemployable, milking us from every possible angle they could, have proved ill under this serious global financial tsunami in history.

.

 

[scroobal]

I think it is going to be pretty difficult to find a person/small group of local "elites" (I use this word in a general sense acknowledging the apparent reality that most if not all socieites are governed by the "elites") who are not in Singapore's Establishment and do not have some contact with the PAP government however loose and indirect. Singapore appears to be too small a place and PAP's tentacles are everywhere now even abroad as well.

So that being said, where do we then find the reasonably credible alternatives of substance? Unless you are looking at generations X, Y, Z and beyond?.

My hope is with Z and the old man kicking bucket. But I am not going to endorse anyone from PAP even if it kills me. What surprised most people was tha Chua results 41% when he did not even try. Bear in mind even at that time, Ong was considered a reasonable and nice man.

From Leong's silence and worst still his recent public emergence with puzzling contradictory statements in TNP appearing to absolve Teo Ho Pin and gang of any blame viz the TCs failed investments in the Lehman Minibonds, cast some shadows over Leong..

Tells a lot, doesn't it.

Looks towards heading in this direction, barring unforeseen circumstances. General perception seems to be that everyone from the banks/FIs/FPs downwards honestly believed that the Lehman Minibonds were relatively low risk products. As that SIAS chap advised in his Today article, probably going to be an uphill task for the individual retail investors to prove misrepresentation and mis-selling.

Its a lost cause. When you look at the big picture, its truly an unexpected event. It was GMS who first told me that DBS rated it as low risk and I went to check the structure and I have to agree. The probability of credit event hitting one of the entity was very unlikely.

Tan Kin Lian should have checked with some qualified economists for the bigger picture. Now the man in the street is going to think that it is a major conspiracy.

However, an independent inquiry needs to be had over MAS role.

 

[Avantas]

Scroobal:

Have you email Mr Tan yet ?

Don't run away. You make a FALSE accusation and you have to pay for it.

As long you use this nick, your LIES will be shown up every time you post for a long, long time.

I don't agree that PAP stable is broad. I would however suggest that there are many more ably qualified singaporeans but they will not put their hands up. The Presidents office is already tarnished and they would not want to be associated with it. Thats probably why, no one of calibre stepped forward for the last contest as well as the first. Though Chua did not come from PAP's stable, he had to be persuaded. I thought it was hilarious when Chua in his interview said that Goh approached him when Goh and PAp endorsed Ong and put NTUC behind Ong.

Following that line of reasoning, all that remains are those in PAP's stable. In that sense, Tan Kin Lian would be a "suitable" candidate.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Nick Lazarus' cohort put's you off is it? Seriously though, it is arguable that even the likes of Philip Jeyeratnam and Cherian George could be linked to PAP albeit very loosely and broadly. But on further consideration, I guess you may be right too, there may appear to be some low key elites out there still waiting for that moment of serendipity.

To me Chua's 41% vote fell in line with my "anything but PAP even the proverbial bicycle thief" proposition,not that Chua was a bicycle thief but I think you get my drift. Electorate had been effectively disenfranchised by LKY's political tricks to a such extent that the Chua 41% was the backlash.

My hope is with Z and the old man kicking bucket. But I am not going to endorse anyone from PAP even if it kills me. What surprised most people was tha Chua results 41% when he did not even try. Bear in mind even at that time, Ong was considered a reasonable and nice man.
.

In what respect? As to why structured products were allowed to be sold to retail mom & pop investors? Why this sort of practice was generally not allowed in other developed countries?

However, an independent inquiry needs to be had over MAS role.

 

[scroobal]

Philip Jeyeratnam and Cherian George could be linked to PAP albeit very loosely and broadly. But on further consideration, I guess you may be right too, there may appear to be some low key elites out there still waiting for that moment of serendipity. .

No lah, certainly not Philip and Cherian and also Zuraidah. You can tell from their writing that they were not in it. Despite the Yacob factor. NTUC on the other hand is a whole different ball game.

To me Chua's 41% vote fell in line with my "anything but PAP even the proverbial bicycle thief" proposition,not that Chua was a bicycle thief but I think you get my drift. Electorate had been effectively disenfranchised by LKY's political tricks to a such extent that the Chua 41% was the backlash..

Agree. I heard that old man was shocked. Apparently the most observors and the civil service was not and I guess, you and me.

In what respect? As to why structured products were allowed to be sold to retail mom & pop investors? Why this sort of practice was generally not allowed in other developed countries?

Yes. MAS used to be anal about these things. In mid 90s, old man caved in to the international investment lobby when at that time we had the highest savings rate in the world (albeit skewed by CPF).

What DBS failed to realise is that the POSB account holders were a different profile. It was leading them to the lions den.

 

[Avantas]

Mr Scroobal:

You have time to talk cock here, no time to email Mr Tan or wayangparty ?

Aren't you very keen to prove that the interview is a hoax ?

Why pass up the opportunity ???

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroobal

The old rule still holds, feed from the PAP buffet , do not bite the hand that feeds you. :_)). . I am no flip flopper unlike those bunch of buffoonish clone masters stalkers and character assassins behind Wayang Party who have one day questioned TKL only to be the next day fully in support of him.

It boils down to what I believe about politics in general. Ambition and a healthy ego are part of being a politician, that and errr a penchant for talking a lot and sometimes talking out of point. For examples of that within opposition politics just have a look at " "Politically blur Vote PAP Sotong " YSL, " The police arrested me I cried and I complained they confiscated my handphone, CTL." and of course " I will never stand in Singapore again GMS".

Look no one in politics is perfect and the current bunch bad as they are fulfill the norm of politicians. TKL you are correct might suffer from being overlooked for being an NTUC leader or a Minister without portfolio and unfulfilled ambition is a very dangerous thing in deed.

On the opposition side, well ex PAP members jumping to an opposition ship, opposition members switching ships, opposition members criticizing the ship they just left, the list goes on and on and on. All in all trust me when I say that its not a happy " band of brothers" out there, and with the bunch of overblown egos in existence, you are just as likely to be shot at by your friends as much as the PAP.

No one's perfect in politics, ambition is a norm for any politician though they should not be professing it to openly. TKL might be flawed and will be a PAP shit magnet, but looking at the dire state of the opposition in Singapore, he is the best of a least of BAD options if he choses to side openly. At any rate whether a new opposition emerges from the ranks of the current not to good ones. disaffected PAP members , or quiet members of the establishment peeved with the PAP, ........I am all for everyone stepping out.



Locke

 

[Avantas]

Mr Lockeliberal:

Since when did wayangparty question TKL's motives ?

Do you want me to dig out your own fair share of lies in the past ?

My memory is still quite strong.

Dear Scroobal

The old rule still holds, feed from the PAP buffet , do not bite the hand that feeds you. :_)). . I am no flip flopper unlike those bunch of buffoonish clone masters stalkers and character assassins behind Wayang Party who have one day questioned TKL only to be the next day fully in support of him.

It boils down to what I believe about politics in general. Ambition and a healthy ego are part of being a politician, that and errr a penchant for talking a lot and sometimes talking out of point. For examples of that within opposition politics just have a look at " "Politically blur Vote PAP Sotong " YSL, " The police arrested me I cried and I complained they confiscated my handphone, CTL." and of course " I will never stand in Singapore again GMS".

Look no one in politics is perfect and the current bunch bad as they are fulfill the norm of politicians. TKL you are correct might suffer from being overlooked for being an NTUC leader or a Minister without portfolio and unfulfilled ambition is a very dangerous thing in deed.

On the opposition side, well ex PAP members jumping to an opposition ship, opposition members switching ships, opposition members criticizing the ship they just left, the list goes on and on and on. All in all trust me when I say that its not a happy " band of brothers" out there, and with the bunch of overblown egos in existence, you are just as likely to be shot at by your friends as much as the PAP.

No one's perfect in politics, ambition is a norm for any politician though they should not be professing it to openly. TKL might be flawed and will be a PAP shit magnet, but looking at the dire state of the opposition in Singapore, he is the best of a least of BAD options if he choses to side openly. At any rate whether a new opposition emerges from the ranks of the current not to good ones. disaffected PAP members , or quiet members of the establishment peeved with the PAP, ........I am all for everyone stepping out.



Locke

 

[scroobal]

Dear Scroobal

The old rule still holds, feed from the PAP buffet , do not bite the hand that feeds you. :_)). . I am no flip flopper unlike those bunch of buffoonish clone masters stalkers and character assassins behind Wayang Party who have one day questioned TKL only to be the next day fully in support of him..

Well said.

TKL might be flawed and will be a PAP shit magnet, but looking at the dire state of the opposition in Singapore, he is the best of a least of BAD options if he choses to side openly. At any rate whether a new opposition emerges from the ranks of the current not to good ones. disaffected PAP members , or quiet members of the establishment peeved with the PAP, ........I am all for everyone stepping out.
Locke

He certainly is not flawed. I think he is a decent man. He is just one of them that was pliable for the PAP cause. What we really need are people with strong convictions and this I guess is where the drought is. They either think that the time is not right or worse still, its not worth it.

Hopefully something better would turn up.

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Ok, perhaps I get too picky at times, say looking at Philip being put on the NKF board by Khaw and also being on the censorship board. Cherian, I have great respect and hopes for him, but the Yaacob factor somehow always looms up every now and then. That is why I say Singapore is too small a place. Another possible eg. is Tan Tarn How whoose brother is a perm sec.

No lah, certainly not Philip and Cherian and also Zuraidah. You can tell from their writing that they were not in it. Despite the Yacob factor. NTUC on the other hand is a whole different ball game. .

I gleefully voted for Chua even though I did not know of him from Adam, best feeling ever, more so as I attended a private function with OTC & wife in attendance the night before:p

Agree. I heard that old man was shocked. Apparently the most observors and the civil service was not and I guess, you and me.
.

 

[Avantas]

Mr Scroobal:

How come so quiet now ?

Why haven't you email wayangparty or Mr Tan ??

Aren't you interested to find out if the interview was a hoax ?

Or are you a hoax yourself ?

So afraid even to reveal your email address ?

I tell you what, go to www.gmail.com and register [email protected]

We wait for you.

Come on, be a MAN, stop being a FAGGOT, will you ?

You are the ONE who provoke others, and now you can't expect to just walk away as if nothing has happened, right ?

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

Well said Bro But let's go in with our eyes open.

No one's perfect in politics, ambition is a norm for any politician though they should not be professing it to openly. TKL might be flawed and will be a PAP shit magnet, but looking at the dire state of the opposition in Singapore, he is the best of a least of BAD options if he choses to side openly. At any rate whether a new opposition emerges from the ranks of the current not to good ones. disaffected PAP members , or quiet members of the establishment peeved with the PAP, ........I am all for everyone stepping out.



Locke

 

[scroobal]

Ok, perhaps I get too picky at times, say looking at Philip being put on the NKF board by Khaw and also being on the censorship board. Cherian, I have great respect and hopes for him, but the Yaacob factor somehow always looms up every now and then. That is why I say Singapore is too small a place. Another possible eg. is Tan Tarn How whoose brother is a perm sec. .

It really is and its not a fluke. Smart people who are in the GLCs and associated companies know their ricebowl and career is depedent on PAP remaining in power. Its not a surprise that our journalist, teachers, and upper echelon of civil service and GLCs are highly remunerated.

I gleefully voted for Chua even though I did not know of him from Adam, best feeling ever, more so as I attended a private function with OTC & wife in attendance the night before:p

I know the feeling bro. Put a donkey and I will tick on it.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Avantas

I believe there was questioning about the TOC and its PAP elements including that of TKL. I have always believed with the need to have an open church. You on the other hand have explaining to do worth of John Kerry frying a prata.



Locke

Mr Lockeliberal:

Since when did wayangparty question TKL's motives ?

Do you want me to dig out your own fair share of lies in the past ?

My memory is still quite strong.

 

[leetahbar]

when a WRIGGLER mates with a PENGUIN, batman would have terrible bigger headache!!

your description of KIM jong ill look-alike is hilariously matching!!ROTFL!!

 

[Porfirio Rubirosa]

That is why I started that thread viz Wayang Party and TOC. Really taken aback at the volte face by WayangParty.

I believe there was questioning about the TOC and its PAP elements including that of TKL.

Locke