Patrick Tan NS Affair - the answers?

[scroobal]

I thought I will await a few days after the Ng's "detailed" explanation with dates and numbers. I am sure that many would have been satisfied with the "detailed" explanation and might have even thought it was extraordinarily transparent.

Let me be blunt and tell you that this govt has a very clear and trademark way of dealing with its citizens. Transparency is not one of their main attributes despite the claim to be whiter than white.

Imagine even today in parliament there PAP MPs who have no qualms about maintaining that the Press is free, including those who are earning high income in the private sector on merit. So if you can pretend that the press is free despite overwhelming evidence of press control and having censorship, can you believe the Minister of Defence.

So let's go down to the "details" of this seeming transparent revelation without it being sieved thru a truly independent inquiry with trusted identities. So why the fear of putting it thru a neutral party. So did Tony Tan get the legendary 2nd egg in his Kway Teow.

 

[scroobal]

Let's not get our panties in a twist with too many details.

Will Mr Ng push aside the opaque curtain and name 2 other individuals who also got the 2nd egg in their parent's Kway Teow. Who are they? Are their parents HDB tenants or members of the ruling elite or the kids of property magnates.

I truly enjoyed the part where he mentions that MINDEF wrote to Stanford to inquire if the programme can be split into MD. and PHD. So Stanford decided on his NS status and not the govt of Singapore. Mindef have pver the years denied thousands of citizens the opportunity to do similar programmes in various fields but these were denied even during the operation of the scheme when Patrick Tan was forunate to be part of.

The scheme was ensure that we got adequately supply of medical doctors. There was never a scheme in place that applied to scientist or medical scientist. So why was he allowed to pursue a programme that was in breach of the scheme. Why was he not asked to complete his residency and come back as practising doctor and placed in the medical corp.

When a cabinet minister is asked why no water flowed thru the hydrant during a fire, this minister instead tells us that there a 5,500 hydrants in place, that worked. He also told us that hydrants are painted red, made of steel with a copper exterior, placed a metre from the road, has a flange that meets universal specs, with water drawn from cycled clean waste water, installed in the 1970s, maintained by PUB, overseen by the Fire Service etc. Yet he cannot explain why no water flowed thru that particular hydrant at the time of the fire.

So was there an error of judgement or was he given a favoured status.

 

[zhihau]

Yet he cannot explain why no water flowed thru that particular hydrant at the time of the fire.

like some schadenfreude mentality... reminds me of a certain chap whom said that 95% of our population remained employed whilst 5% of our countrymen is struggling for survival

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo

There is an old saying, if you are in a hole, stop DIGGING. I am afraid whilst Dr Ng's answers may have answered Dr Janil's pre scripted question it has not answered the key question and has raised more issues.

a. There were a total of 1026 NSF's disrupted in the period. following which OVERSEAs disruption for medical studies were not allowed. Only three were disrupted in the US, three out of 126 in that period. And whilst I would love to know who the other two were and their names, the following salient points come through. THEY both disrupted until the end of their medical studies whether in the US (9 ) or in the US followed by Ireland (12) and they both BECAME doctors because as even NG ENG HEN admitted There was a need for medical graduates i.e doctors and not some cocked up MEDICAL scientist.


b. Then there was a serious of spurious and laughable examples about why a STRAIGHT through PHD disruption for Patrick was allowed ( Non Medical ) examples and why Patrick was unique. Insanely enough whilst many of us would have said a genius 14 year old might be exceptional , not forgetting the lack of discretion shown to Melvin Tan ( Pianist ) and more talented then patrick tan who btw has not found the cure for cancer. We have PSC scholars and Rhodes Scholars who did disrupt for similar periods but then again Was P Tan firstly a PSC scholar or even a Rhodes Scholar ? And yes btw he was smart enough not to take a government scholarship and the resultant bond.



Fuck


Lockeliberal

I thought I will await a few days after the Ng's "detailed" explanation with dates and numbers. I am sure that many would have been satisfied with the "detailed" explanation and might have even thought it was extraordinarily transparent.

Let me be blunt and tell you that this govt has a very clear and trademark way of dealing with its citizens. Transparency is not one of their main attributes despite the claim to be whiter than white.

Imagine even today in parliament there PAP MPs who have no qualms about maintaining that the Press is free, including those who are earning high income in the private sector on merit. So if you can pretend that the press is free despite overwhelming evidence of press control and having censorship, can you believe the Minister of Defence.

So let's go down to the "details" of this seeming transparent revelation without it being sieved thru a truly independent inquiry with trusted identities. So why the fear of putting it thru a neutral party. So did Tony Tan get the legendary 2nd egg in his Kway Teow.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Actually, just ask that simple question, did the other two who studied in US got 12 years disruptions? That does it. If so, yes, who are their parents? Did they become MO or a "sergent scientist"?

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Zenra2OO3]

Let's not get our panties in a twist with too many details.

Will Mr Ng push aside the opaque curtain and name 2 other individuals who also got the 2nd egg in their parent's Kway Teow. Who are they? Are their parents HDB tenants or members of the ruling elite or the kids of property magnates.

I truly enjoyed the part where he mentions that MINDEF wrote to Stanford to inquire if the programme can be split into MD. and PHD. So Stanford decided on his NS status and not the govt of Singapore. Mindef have pver the years denied thousands of citizens the opportunity to do similar programmes in various fields but these were denied even during the operation of the scheme when Patrick Tan was forunate to be part of.

The scheme was ensure that we got adequately supply of medical doctors. There was never a scheme in place that applied to scientist or medical scientist. So why was he allowed to pursue a programme that was in breach of the scheme. Why was he not asked to complete his residency and come back as practising doctor and placed in the medical corp.

When a cabinet minister is asked why no water flowed thru the hydrant during a fire, this minister instead tells us that there a 5,500 hydrants in place, that worked. He also told us that hydrants are painted red, made of steel with a copper exterior, placed a metre from the road, has a flange that meets universal specs, with water drawn from cycled clean waste water, installed in the 1970s, maintained by PUB, overseen by the Fire Service etc. Yet he cannot explain why no water flowed thru that particular hydrant at the time of the fire.

So was there an error of judgement or was he given a favoured status.

Actually if Patrick Tan continued his residency in the US, his disruption will be even longer, 17 years if he had chosen a residency in a non-surgical discipline, and even more if he had chosen residency in a surgical discipline. But, he never did take the board exams that will qualify for residency in the first place.

 

[steffychun]

There are so many known unknowns to quote an infamous defence secretary.

 

[Checker]

Agree the reply was smoke and mirrors for the most part. Who the other two US-disruptees are might not be difficult to figure out if they're practicing in Singapore. The medical council website lists qualifications. It is very expensive studying medicine in US, even for americans who qualify for loans but not foreigners. Extremely few places are even given to foreigners. Therefore very unlikely those two from regular backgrounds.

Remains unanswered directly why the particular disruption for medical scientist was allowed, if it was true that the principle was to allow it only to add to the medical manpower. But it is probably true that none of the other two (or hardly anybody else) got the MD-PhD offer from a top US university. This usually comes with a scholarship and only less than 5% of US med school students go for this. Rare prestige, especially for foreigner. We cannot deny this is an 'exceptional' talent and that is probably the reason for the disruption. But it is also true there're other 'exceptional' cases not disrupted. At some point, deciding what is exceptional talent or not becomes subjective - but how to say this officially?

To be fair, medical scientists or clinician scientists are very rare and very valuable. PhD scientists and medical doctors are already rare. The medical scientist combines both and tries to bring new discoveries into medicine. This rare breed of people are responsible for a large part of major medical discoveries that improve our lives. In the US in the 1970s, serving as a medical scientist was considered in lieu of service for Vietnam/ Korean war. However, medical discoveries take years and decades in the making. Most medical scientists will for most of their professional lives work quietly and diligently in near obscurity, while their medical school colleagues are big-time surgeons (or ministers) making millions.

 

[Khun Ying Pojaman]

Actually, just ask that simple question, did the other two who studied in US got 12 years disruptions? That does it. If so, yes, who are their parents? Did they become MO or a "sergent scientist"?

Goh Meng Seng

I like the term you just coined - Sergeant Scientist

From now on, Patrick Tan will be known as Singapore's ONLY Sergeant Scientist. I really hope WP will help popularize this term "Sergeant Scientist" in Parliament so that it gets recorded in Hansard forever and ever :oIo:

 

[neddy]

Let me be blunt and tell you that this govt has a very clear and trademark way of dealing with its citizens. Transparency is not one of their main attributes despite the claim to be whiter than white.

Imagine even today in parliament there PAP MPs who have no qualms about maintaining that the Press is free, including those who are earning high income in the private sector on merit. So if you can pretend that the press is free despite overwhelming evidence of press control and having censorship, can you believe the Minister of Defence.

Let's not get our panties in a twist with too many details.

For a bystander me who got my panties soiled one day, over my 6th sense of something is very wrong with this country called Singapore, it is not difficult to understand why the disappointed me stop wanting to count the number of eggs in TT's kway teow.

First, it is not worth getting depressed over knowing the detailed truth.

Secondly, If a leader believes his lies,he is finished, right Gaddafi? ..... Oh I forgot, he is dead! In NS, when a fellow get blanket partied, the NCO asked, did anyone see anything. All the witnesses replied, No, we see nothing. That is why it all started go wrong. Bravo coy - survived mental breakdown.

So, I believe no one wearing the strike-by-lightning white uniforms so I do not get pissed off.

Good luck to those minority who voted TT as President. It will be so easy for him to sign more chequesshould Singapore run into the monetary minefield again. UBS, is the S stand for Singapore now?

No sergeant scientist worth my time. End of my 2c. Decamped.

I like the term you just coined - Sergeant Scientist

From now on, Patrick Tan will be known as Singapore's ONLY Sergeant Scientist. I really hope WP will help popularize this term "Sergeant Scientist" in Parliament so that it gets recorded in Hansard forever and ever :oIo:

Need to set Proclaimation Day for "Sergeant Scientist"?

Does parliamentary privileges exist for Opposition in Singapore Parliament? or will they be "fixed" for using that term SS

I want to know the truth, for once ..................

 

[kingrant]

Correction! He actually used the word "only" as in where I have edited yr quote.

like some schadenfreude mentality... reminds me of a certain chap whom said that 95% of our population remained employed whilst ​only 5% of our countrymen is struggling for survival

 

[kingrant]

Possibly and not surprisingly, the Ministerial reply was agonised over long enough to ensure that it has the bikini approach - short enough to keep you guessing; long enough to cover the essentials. As they say, too long a rope to play with, can hang yrself.

There is an old saying, if you are in a hole, stop DIGGING. I am afraid whilst Dr Ng's answers may have answered Dr Janil's pre scripted question it has not answered the key question and has raised more issues.

 

[kingrant]

To be fair, if 2 eggs are known to be available, ordinary parents shld also be given notice on where to go and get 2 eggs and for what orders. That is basic decent application of the equal opportunity rule. Not just a secret route or loophole that only Ministers with special knowledge know.

Will Mr Ng push aside the opaque curtain and name 2 other individuals who also got the 2nd egg in their parent's Kway Teow. Who are they? Are their parents HDB tenants or members of the ruling elite or the kids of property magnates.


So was there an error of judgement or was he given a favoured status.

 

[lee6100]

I like the term you just coined - Sergeant Scientist

From now on, Patrick Tan will be known as Singapore's ONLY Sergeant Scientist. I really hope WP will help popularize this term "Sergeant Scientist" in Parliament so that it gets recorded in Hansard forever and ever :oIo:

Does anyone know of any minister's son who became an NCO during his NS days? I've not heard of any. Or do able-bodied ministers' sons automatically get selected to OCS regardless of their lack of leadership qualities, etc.?

 

[lee6100]

I thought I will await a few days after the Ng's "detailed" explanation with dates and numbers. I am sure that many would have been satisfied with the "detailed" explanation and might have even thought it was extraordinarily transparent.

Let me be blunt and tell you that this govt has a very clear and trademark way of dealing with its citizens. Transparency is not one of their main attributes despite the claim to be whiter than white.

Imagine even today in parliament there PAP MPs who have no qualms about maintaining that the Press is free, including those who are earning high income in the private sector on merit. So if you can pretend that the press is free despite overwhelming evidence of press control and having censorship, can you believe the Minister of Defence.

So let's go down to the "details" of this seeming transparent revelation without it being sieved thru a truly independent inquiry with trusted identities. So why the fear of putting it thru a neutral party. So did Tony Tan get the legendary 2nd egg in his Kway Teow.

Simply put, this will not go away. People have stopped believing, especially those of us who gave our blood, sweat and tears and served our NS with pride. It will haunt them in 2016.

 

[SneeringTree]

It is like this: it may well be that a Singaporean man might-

(1) get a 12 year deferment before doing his NS OR
(2) be allowed to do a pre-med in USA (at a time when medical degrees from USA were not recognized) OR
(3) not eventually get a MD even though disruptions are only applicable for MD OR
(4) be posted to a research position at some institute instead of a "regular" SAF position

HOWEVER, to have all these four events occuring in one person who just happens to be the son of the Defence Minister then... C'mon, even a kid will not buy this constellation of coincidences.

 

[tanwahtiu]

50 years after a dodgy independent Singapore from no other than the 88 y.o Hakka bastard many things sweep under the carpet is slowly coming out. 2nd Gaddafi is emerging soon.

Let me be blunt and tell you that this govt has a very clear and trademark way of dealing with its citizens. Transparency is not one of their main attributes despite the claim to be whiter than white.

Imagine even today in parliament there PAP MPs who have no qualms about maintaining that the Press is free, including those who are earning high income in the private sector on merit. So if you can pretend that the press is free despite overwhelming evidence of press control and having censorship, can you believe the Minister of Defence.

 

[tanwahtiu]

PAP Pres Tony Tan is going to get alot more boos from the people until he get the message to resign over his Sergant Scentist son. Can imagine next NDP he will be boo at when he takes the stand, as usual. Dogdy President will be booed.

I like the term you just coined - Sergeant Scientist

From now on, Patrick Tan will be known as Singapore's ONLY Sergeant Scientist. I really hope WP will help popularize this term "Sergeant Scientist" in Parliament so that it gets recorded in Hansard forever and ever :oIo:

 

[jw5]

I am waiting with bated breath the results of his earth shattering breakthrough research which will benefit the lives of thousands of Singaporeans.

 

[zhihau]

I am waiting with bated breath the results of his earth shattering breakthrough research which will benefit the lives of thousands of Singaporeans.

bro,

don't hold your hopes too high, high chances of disappointment.