PAP Politicians are Different

[TracyTan866]

Re: Especially To Raffles And Goh Keng Swee

I do have to remind you that the majority who voted for LKY and gang are all UNGRATEFUL because they have all forgotten what the other heroes like Raffles and Goh K.S. had done for them. Instead of thanking these people, the crooked minds have forgotten that it was Sir Stamford Raffles who designed the urban planning which is adopted by HDB today. And Goh Keng Swee did all the important works in all four major areas but he was forgotten completely even until his death. Nobody asked why the late Goh did not receive millions of dollars for his contributions. Isn't this a country that rewards its prized citizens for their merits, visible credits, worthy contribution and sacrifices ? But, why LHL ? Funny, isn't it ? What did he do to deserve that ? The funny thing is, no one (60%) wants to rebuke LKY for heaping up these credits to himself shamefully. Alas ! Meritocracy had been raped !

Some of the patriots and I have not forgotten these people and that's why we are even more staunch and steadfast to go against this fascist regime.

Could they have voted because of what they see from the 1st generation of PAP leaders?

 

[TracyTan866]

You have only Singaporean to blame for being daft in not seeing that these tactics would affect them in the long run.

Sorry, but I disagree with you..if you are a Singaporean, you will know how the pap denied true information and used unethical tactics to win votes. I dont blame the voters for voting the pap because they "know not what they are doing" because many of them read only the MSM and believe what the pap told them.

We need to get to the root cause of the problem and not just treat the symptons..and it is to let Singaporeans know the whole truth abt the pap.

I am quite confident that the pap will be voted out overwhelmingly shd all Singaporeans know the truth. With social media, change is in the air for Singapore's political landscape. LKY, never in his wildest dream would have foreseen this happening to the pap. Will he live long enough to see the pap being voted out?

 

[Leongsam]

Why are PAP politicians so different from other countries politicians? They:

I can assure you that politicians are the same the world over. The only difference is that in many countries, they get away with it but in some countries they can't.

 

[Fook Seng]

But as to whether there will be greater accountability still remains to be seen. After all, we have not seen any substantial changes to the style of govt yet. All the major policies are still intact.

Politicians all over behave the same when they are in a fix. Having to defend areas under their supervision, they first try to deflect blame away from themselves until there is no way to fool the public in which case they will try to play the honest guy. What is important is whether they believe in a change of the political system. I have not seen any change in that. As long as the power is in the hands of an elite few, the quality of policies will be as what it is without the benefit of fair representation of the entire parliament and the whole electorate.

 

[Leongsam]

What is important is whether they belief in a change of the political system. I have not seen any change in that. As long as the power is the hands of a elite few, the quality of policies will be as what it is without the benefit of fair representation of the entire parliament and the whole electorate.

No politicians are going to change the system while they're in power. The only way to change a system is to vote for a politician who promises to change the system.

However, that is still guarantee that the system will change as politicians are notorious for breaking their promises once they've had a taste of the baubles of office.

It is then time to take to the streets to force the issue.

 

[TracyTan866]

I can assure you that politicians are the same the world over. The only difference is that in many countries, they get away with it but in some countries they can't.

I disagree...LHL is certainly no Donald Tsang. Neither is LHL Julia Gillard. Do Donald and Gillard bankrupt their opponents? Does Cameron favour Chinese and Indians to Britons? Does Obama challenge Cain to meet at the cul de sac with hatchet in hand? Does Noda asked to be paid salaries comparable to top six earners? I can go on.

Now, tell me where are the similarities?

 

[TracyTan866]

No politicians are going to change the system while they're in power. The only way to change a system is to vote for a politician who promises to change the system.

However, that is still guarantee that the system will change as politicians are notorious for breaking their promises once they've had a taste of the baubles of office.

It is then time to take to the streets to force the issue.

Yes, there are ambers of hope in what the pap is doing recently..hopefully these ambers will fan into a fire of change for SG politics.

I am hopeful that LHL will do the right thing

 

[TracyTan866]

Politicians all over behave the same when they are in a fix,

Maybe they are the same because of self preservation and political survival?

 

[Leongsam]

I disagree...LHL is certainly no Donald Tsang. Neither is LHL Julia Gillard. Do Donald and Gillard bankrupt their opponents? Does Cameron favour Chinese and Indians to Britons? Does Obama challenge Cain to meet at the cul de sac with hatchet in hand? Does Noda asked to be paid salaries comparable to top six earners? I can go on.
Now, tell me where are the similarities?

Yes they don't do it but you have to understand the reasons why they don't. It's not because they're nicer people. It's not because they were brought up differently. It's not because they have different values. It's not because they care more for the people.

They don't do it because it would be political suicide. It would cost them dearly at the polls.

 

[Fook Seng]

No politicians are going to change the system while they're in power. The only way to change a system is to vote for a politician who promises to change the system.

However, that is still guarantee that the system will change as politicians are notorious for breaking their promises once they've had a taste of the baubles of office.

It is then time to take to the streets to force the issue.

I agree it is not easy for politicians to change the political system that allows them to cling on to power. But if changes in the voting pattern put them at risk, they can be forced to change. The multiple member one ticket system (GRC system) gives rise to large swings in seat wins as the majority drops towards 50%. At 60% majority, seats are split 93:7. At 54% majority, based on my estimation, it will be 2:1. At 50%, it will be only be 1:1. Below 50%, things get to look very nasty for the largest party and will give rise to a very volatile political environment. Changing it to a proportional representation will move the seat distribution closer to the popular votes. Today only one party has the power to make this change. I don't see another party to have the ability to change it on its own for a very long time, or ever.

 

[TracyTan866]

Yes they don't do it but you have to understand the reasons why they don't. It's not because they're nicer people. It's not because they were brought up differently. It's not because they have different values. It's not because they care more for the people.

They don't do it because it would be political suicide. It would cost them dearly at the polls.

The reason they dont do it is not important in this thread..what I am saying is, the pap is different and I am glad you agree

why shd Singaporeans allow the pap to do such despicable things? it shd likewise be political suicide for the pap to do such things...but we are getting there

 

[Leongsam]

The reason they dont do it is not important in this thread..what I am saying is, the pap is different and I am glad you agree

I don't agree. PAP politicians are the same as politicians the world over. It is the Singapore electorate that is different.

Take NZ for example, Winston Peters used his position to wine, dine and enjoy the good life instead of serving the people during his tenure as Foreign Minister from 2005 to 2008. New Zealand voters did not approve of his behavior so he was thrown out of Parliament. He was soundly trashed in his "safe" seat of Tauranga where he once commanded a considerable majority.

If Singaporeans did the same thing to PAP ministers, they'd be a lot better behaved.

 

[TracyTan866]

I don't agree. PAP politicians are the same as politicians the world over. It is the Singapore electorate that is different.

Take NZ for example, Winston Peters used his position to wine, dine and enjoy the good life instead of serving the people during his tenure as Foreign Minister from 2005 to 2008. New Zealand voters did not approve of his behavior so he was thrown out of Parliament. He was soundly trashed in his "safe" seat of Tauranga where he once commanded a considerable majority.

If Singaporeans did the same thing to PAP ministers, they'd be a lot better behaved.

It is good that you agree that PAP politicians behave differently. We disagree on the reason for them being different.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Sorry, but I disagree with you..if you are a Singaporean, you will know how the pap denied true information and used unethical tactics to win votes. I dont blame the voters for voting the pap because they "know not what they are doing" because many of them read only the MSM and believe what the pap told them.

We need to get to the root cause of the problem and not just treat the symptons..and it is to let Singaporeans know the whole truth abt the pap.

I am quite confident that the pap will be voted out overwhelmingly shd all Singaporeans know the truth. With social media, change is in the air for Singapore's political landscape. LKY, never in his wildest dream would have foreseen this happening to the pap. Will he live long enough to see the pap being voted out?

i disagree. as much as pap control the MSM, there are still the powerful kopitaim gossip channels where the truth still prevail. but many singaporeans knew about this yet they still rather vote pap despite they themselves also contribute truths in the gossip channels. Mind u, many of these ppl are educated folks yet for reason only know to themselves that they keep voting pap into power when they are the one complaining about pap the most. most singaporeans vote with their eyes open and they rather choose pap who they marginally dislike than AP who they dont trust. i have a colleague who kpkb abt pap everyday yet refuse to vote for NSP who she dont trust. pap had not become powerful because of its policies and threats but powerful due to mandate given by strange electrol voters.

 

[TracyTan866]

i disagree. as much as pap control the MSM, there are still the powerful kopitaim gossip channels where the truth still prevail. but many singaporeans knew about this yet they still rather vote pap despite they themselves also contribute truths in the gossip channels.

The social media is pretty recent...do you think the majority of Singaporeans read them? It is important for us to continue keep telling the truth abt the pap

 

[TracyTan866]

i have a colleague who kpkb abt pap everyday yet refuse to vote for NSP who she dont trust.

That's good..be patient with her..she will see the light eventually

 

[TracyTan866]

. pap had not become powerful because of its policies and threats but powerful due to mandate given by strange electrol voters.

PAP is not powerful now. It is in decline and it is a matter of time when it will be voted out..2016? 2021?

 

[Leongsam]

most singaporeans vote with their eyes open and they rather choose pap who they marginally dislike than AP who they dont trust.

That's part of the reason. However, allow me to rehash what I've mentioned before in this forum.

When I was still working in sinkieland, I had a colleague who hated the PAP to the core.... that's what he told everyone on a daily basis.

After the 1996 election, I asked him who he voted for. He said the following.. in his own words... "I had no choice but to vote PAP because I want to sell my flat this year. If I vote for opposition, end up my flat value drop then how?".

That, in a nutshell. is why the PAP romps home every single time.

 

[TracyTan866]

That's part of the reason. However, allow me to rehash what I've mentioned before in this forum.

When I was still working in sinkieland, I had a colleague who hated the PAP to the core.... that's what he told everyone on a daily basis.

After the 1996 election, I asked him who he voted for. He said the following.. in his own words... "I had no choice but to vote PAP because I want to sell my flat this year. If I vote for opposition, end up my flat value drop then how?".

That, in a nutshell. is why the PAP romps home every single time.

That was 1996....I dont think he will be representative of the 2016 Singaporean..times for the PAP have changed drastically since 1996. just wait and we will see whether the PAP will romp to victory at the next GE

 

[Leongsam]

Compare the breakdown by brand between Singapore and NZ. Hidden within those figures is the reason why the PAP can get away with what it does.....

New car sales by brand - Singapore 2010

1 1 Toyota 6,927 16.5%
5 2 Mercedes 4,705 11.2%
7 3 BMW 4,708 11.2%
9 4 VW 3,486 8.3%
2 5 Honda 3,272 7.8%
4 6 Kia 2,934 7.0%
3 7 Hyundai 2,437 5.8%
13 8 Audi 2,199 5.2%
6 9 Nissan 1,798 4.3%
11 10 Mazda 1,243 3.0%
14 11 Chevrolet 963 2.3%
8 12 Mitsubishi 960 2.3%
10 13 Subaru 888 2.1%
15 14 Volvo 816 1.9%
12 15 Suzuki 607 1.4%
22 16 Porsche 448 1.1%
24 17 Citroen 375 0.9%
18 18 Ford 347 0.8%
26 19 Jaguar 339 0.8%
16 20 Proton 256 0.6%


New car sales by brand - NZ 2010

1 Toyota 17.42%

2 Holden 10.17%

3 Hyundai 8.67%

4 Mazda 8.48%

5 Ford 8.04%

6 Suzuki 6.46%

7 Mitsubishi 5.35%

8 VW 5.14%

9 Honda 4.29%

10 Nissan 4.19%

11 Kia 2.99%

12 Subaru 2.32%