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PAP Indian MPs have failed again

scroobal

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The comments were clear. Seng Han Tong did the following
  • he mentioned only Indian and Malay for their failure to speak English properly even though Chinese was mentioned
  • he suggested they be trained in better communication thus accepting the notion that they are poor in English
These guys get into parliament on the coat tails of others and now see things differently from the 3 Malay MPs. Even Seng Han Tong has realised his mistake but not Shanmugam or Hri Kumar.

If the race quota and the concept of GRC is to ensure adequate representation of minority races, these guys have failed. Not only failed, they are also undermining the 3 other Malay MPs.

This is not the first time. The Indian community I understand have had to use JYM Pillay in the past to intervene thru Sinda. Why are we paying money to these guys who are hopeless. We might as well remove the race quota and rely purely on merit.
 
The comments were clear. Seng Han Tong did the following
  • he mentioned only Indian and Malay for their failure to speak English properly even though Chinese was mentioned
  • he suggested they be trained in better communication thus accepting the notion that they are poor in English
These guys get into parliament on the coat tails of others and now see things differently from the 3 Malay MPs. Even Seng Han Tong has realised his mistake but not Shanmugam or Hri Kumar.

If the race quota and the concept of GRC is to ensure adequate representation of minority races, these guys have failed. Not only failed, they are also undermining the 3 other Malay MPs.

This is not the first time. The Indian community I understand have had to use JYM Pillay in the past to intervene thru Sinda. Why are we paying money to these guys who are hopeless. We might as well remove the race quota and rely purely on merit.

i think most elite are still racist... just toking to my fren ... you cant imagine what kind of bigoted views people wth graduate degrees can hold.....

divide and conquer work since colonial time......

can people stand the compeition .... if 1 day... we rely on pure merit and end up with just Jews running the country.... can people stomach it....???

the non jew will cried.... whats merit anyway ?? its in the eye of the beholder???

Is Saw Qualified to run trains ?? is Ho ching got the temasek job based on merit????

its all patronage anyway.... racism is jusn another form of patronage amd protectionism anyway....


your statement also epic failed by the way .... sexpose your inner world view and biased of how racial politics ...

why should Indian MPs make noise..... all decent people should make noise ....

if Indian MPs make noise because they feel offended as indian.... then they are not representing their consitituents....
Shanmugam was elected by CHong Pang .... not by Indian.... he represent CHong Pang and his party... PAP....not indians

who should speak up for indian?? the President.... he is suppose to represent all SIngaporeans.... but he is on leave now,...

if AH Bock Is Presiden now I am sure he will make noise.... by now... so for indians and malays..... who vote for the heart and not the tree./////.... :oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo::oIo:
 
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Significant part attributed to MP Seng Han Thong is false: Shanmugam

Significant part attributed to MP Seng Han Thong is false: Shanmugam
By Saifulbahri Ismail | Posted: 24 December 2011 1903 hrs
K Shanmugam

Photos 1 of 1

K Shanmugam


Related News
• Seng Han Thong isn't racist, says fellow MP
• MP clears the air regarding comments on transport workers
Video
Significant part attributed to MP Seng Han Thong is false: Shanmugam

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SINGAPORE: Law and Foreign Affairs Minister K Shanmugam said that a significant part of what has been attributed to MP Seng Han Thong by people and netizens over his recent comments is false.

Mr Shanmugam said: "A significant part of what has been attributed to Mr Seng is false, to be quite blunt about it."

Weighing in on the controversial remarks, Mr Shanmugam said the key point is that Mr Seng had sought to rebut a statement made by an officer from train operator SMRT.

Mr Shanmugam said: "Han Thong heard over the radio what an officer from MRT said, essentially suggesting that poor language skills of Chinese, Indian and Malay drivers who work with SMRT were part of the problem in the inadequacy of the response by SMRT. Seng Han Thong strongly disagreed with this comment.

"So when he went on TV, he referred to this comment, and in essence made the point that the language skills of workers should not be blamed for the inadequacy of the response. And his point is that broken English can be effective in communicating of what needs to be communicated.

"The real problem according to him, was that the workers, drivers specifically, had not been given adequate training to deal with these sorts of emergencies."

Mr Shanmugam said the mistake Mr Seng made was that he misquoted the MRT officer and said that the officer had referred to Indian and Malay drivers when in fact, the officer had referred to drivers of all races.

Mr Shanmugam added: "If you put that across I don't think many people will have reacted in the way they did. The mistake... was that he misquoted the MRT officer and said that the officer had referred to Indian and Malay drivers having poor English language skills, when in fact the officer had referred to all three races.

"I think that personally Hang Thong could have also gone further to explicitly disagree with the view which he thought that the officer had expressed - that the Indian and Malay drivers had poor language skills, he could have gone further and rebutted that."

Mr Shanmugam also took issue with an article posted by socio-political website, The Online Citizen (TOC).

TOC headlined its article, "MP Seng Han Thong: SMRT's unpreparedness also due to Malay and Indian staffs English language proficiency". Mr Shanmugam said the article, which was attributed to Mr Seng, was false and was the opposite of what he had said.

The minister said: "The article does not say that he was quoting an MRT officer. They could have pointed out that it was an inaccurate quote. The didn't say he was quoting an MRT officer and neither does it say that he disagreed with that view. Instead, in both the headlines and in the text, it reaffirms the view that these were his words."

Mr Shanmugam believes Mr Seng is not racist. He said he has known Mr Seng for many years, adding that he works hard on the ground and helps everyone.

Mr Shanmugam added: "We have to look at the facts. So I hope that we can deal with this matter on the basis of facts and not on the basis of false statements which are wrongly attributed to someone."

-CNA/ac




goot retort from the adulterer... up his point....


GMS said:
I have read what the SMRT VP said in the radio programme. The fundamental question is, did SHT really "DISAGREE" with him? Did he say, no, these workers are not bad in English?

Apparently, he didn't. His following comment is based on the AGREEMENT of what was said by the SMRT VP. He said, these workers should just use broken English, isn't that so? He didn't rebut SMRT VP's point of view, is it not?

He was addressing this to the workers, rather than SMRT VP. He was telling them, go and speak broken English, never mind. How could that be construed as "defending" them?

I will put up an example on what it is meant to be "defending" them. If he has honestly heard wrongly that the SMRT VP was talking about only Indian and Malay workers have problems in speaking English, he should actually say it has nothing to do with their race! That's defending them.

And to go further defending these workers, he should have said well, it is SMRT's responsibility to give adequate training to its workers, including English, so that they could perform their duties more effectively and could handle such emergencies well. He should have said, if their workers cannot handle such situations, it is NOT the workers' fault but the SMRT management which failed to provide all necessary training to them. That's what "DEFENCE" means.

GMS simply dun get it.....
this is a brilliant spin and unlike senior counsel //// GMS does not have MSM as a platform.... too bad
 
History repeats itself here.At least now we know why we have so many lawyers in the PAP line up as MPs.....some who are Indians.They are profession liars to argue for PAP.Nothing more nothing less.

It was the damn Halimah who upset the cart for PAP Indian MPs.She shot first.Because she knew that SMRT drivers are mostly Malays..Which the SMRT sweet- coated by mentioning all races.But unwittingly Seng Han Thong spilled the beans over the air.The joke is why is it difficult for any Singaporean to speak English.Unless we are having vernacular schools ; all of which we were disbanded more 30 yrs ago.

This is what Halimah rightly read.

That SMRT is plying this shove the blame to the lowest level possible.And Seng Han Thong just refined it more since behind his back of his mind he knew there are more Malays as SMRT drivers than others.But why did Seng included the Indians as well?That's where we caught his racist part since he deliberately left the Chinese.Deep down he is a fucken racist.

But why must our Indian MPs defend a racist.Isn't it obvious ?Once again the PAP Indian MPs and particularly our DPM,who is also an Indian,were caught sleeping in the job.So they have no choice but to pretend that they heard nothing evil.So why fix something if it ain't broken is now spoken as their defense.Simply put they are fighting for their inaction.

They think they are smart by this juxtaposition.But the ground among Indians I hear,is really boiling as Indians are usually an emotional lot.
 
History repeats itself here.At least now we know why we have so many lawyers in the PAP line up as MPs.....some who are Indians.They are profession liars to argue for PAP.Nothing more nothing less.

It was the damn Halimah who upset the cart for PAP Indian MPs.She shot first.Because she knew that SMRT drivers are mostly Malays..Which the SMRT sweet- coated by mentioning all races.But unwittingly Seng Han Thong spilled the beans over the air.The joke is why is it difficult for any Singaporean to speak English.Unless we are having vernacular schools ; all of which we were disbanded more 30 yrs ago.

This is what Halimah rightly read.

That SMRT is plying this shove the blame to the lowest level possible.And Seng Han Thong just refined it more since behind his back of his mind he knew there are more Malays as SMRT drivers than others.But why did Seng included the Indians as well?That's where we caught his racist part since he deliberately left the Chinese.Deep down he is a fucken racist.

But why must our Indian MPs defend a racist.Isn't it obvious ?Once again the PAP Indian MPs and particularly our DPM,who is also an Indian,were caught sleeping in the job.So they have no choice but to pretend that they heard nothing evil.So why fix something if it ain't broken is now spoken as their defense.Simply put they are fighting for their inaction.

They think they are smart by this juxtaposition.But the ground among Indians I hear,is really boiling as Indians are usually an emotional lot.

The Malay community is not very happy either about SHT's comments, Halimah and the rest of the Malay MPs are not really seen as defenders of the Malay Community. Ironically, the biggest defender of the Malay Community is not a politician but a very conflicted Playwright from W!ld Rice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfian_Sa'at
 
The Malay community is not very happy either about SHT's comments, Halimah and the rest of the Malay MPs are not really seen as defenders of the Malay Community. Ironically, the biggest defender of the Malay Community is not a politician but a very conflicted Playwright from W!ld Rice

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfian_Sa'at

Agreed.Malay PAP MP & ministers were the most subdued lot.If any had an iota of honor , LKY's wikileaks about their religion as 'venomous' would had seen them walking out of the parliament for good.Because this comment goes right to the root of their existence -not only as a society but as a being.Malays bet their lives on their religion.

LKY did not deny outright that such comment did not belong to him.He only said no such record exist.If that being the case,why would US embassy lie since they had no prior knowledge that it would be leaked sometimes in the future?...
 
All the current Indian and Malay MPs know that they don't stand a chance in hell if they stood for elections on their own. Singapore electorate is racist. The GRC is brought in to mask this reality. The racial divide was glossed over by economic success. When the Indians and Malays started to lose their rice-bowls with te influx of FTs, the racial divide has become more clear. Go into any SME and see, it will be crystal clear. Chinese companies predominantly will hire chinese and likewise for the Indian and Malay companies. The illusion of being 'colour-blind' is only amongst the top 15-20% of our society. For the rest, in a crisis especially, its "brother look after brother"!

Has LKY any choice? I doubt so. He is english educated. But the electorate is mostly chinese and wanted desperately to cling on to its roots, culture and history. Today LKY is more chinese than he was 30 years ago. Again, as he got a choice? The PAP's survival (and that of Singapore) depends on how carefully it can manage relations with China and the United States. If he had his way, he would be most delighted if his daughter could marry a mainland Chinese.

Singapore society is not 'colour-blind',that is the hard truth. The MPs from the minority races cannot be seen defending or leading their races against the majority race. Unlike LKY, I do think Hsien Loong is indeed 'colour-blind' and should any of his children fall in love or get married to a non-chinese, will gladly accept things.

But under PAP rule, only Chindians (Chinese Indians) and Chinlays (Chinese Malays) have a chance to rise in politics. The thoroughbreds will come in and go as MPs..just to 'give a voice' to the minorty who refuse to accept that Singapore politics is dominated by the chinese and will continue to do so for the next 50 years.
 
Dolts like Hri Kumar and Shanmugam are a disgrace to the Indians. They have no moral authority to be representing Indians in parliament.

Instead of castigating SHT for poor comprehension and language skills, they joined in to rub more salt into the wound.

I am truly surprised that a nutcase like Seng does not realise that he himself who is a Chinese cannot understand what the SMRT spokesman had said, and chose to single out the Malays and Indians, who I thought usually speak better than the Chinese. Do you still want examples?
 
Has LKY any choice? I doubt so. .

Pleeez lah.Trying to confuse the line between racial pride and racism?

Tell me how does any Chinese Singaporean benefits by badmouthing Malay/Muslims religion as a 'venomous religion'?

Answer me this first.

Than I shall rebut you point by point.

What LKY had done is to tarnish the entire Singapore Chinese community as a racist lot by association.Since he veils himself as a Confucius gentleman seer of sort.The very guy who demolished Chinese culture and eduction here to suit his political profit.LKY is a political chameleon who would not hesitate to adorn turban if Delhi administration emerges as the super power in this region.Why?Because our very own flag incorporates the national color of Indonesia and a crescent symbolic of Islam--LKY show of submission.

One does not have to be a racist to have racial pride or racial cohesiveness nor help thy race.....or degrade another race so that his own would be voted into the parliament.
 
These guys get into parliament on the coat tails of others and now see things differently from the 3 Malay MPs. Even Seng Han Tong has realised his mistake but not Shanmugam or Hri Kumar.

convince, confuse, condemn, cover up
only thing is the cover up is so badly done and poor folks are left exposed :p:p:p
 
Heard the latest - Inderjit provide his view to CNA that what Seng did was not right and should have been more careful with his words and people who hold responsible position must be more sensitive. Kudos on him. This however does not seem to appear on print press.

Also heard that directive went out PAP MPs not to make any more comments.

Halimah apparently has received a lot of kudos for what she has done and it is coming from all quarters including Indians.
 
Halimah apparently has received a lot of kudos for what she has done and it is coming from all quarters including Indians.

ooo... at least she can be taken off the Aljunied team after that chicken-fish fiasco :p:p:p
 
These 2 clowns are Senior Counsels. They still think they are defending a client in court and have come out with ingenious comments but chose to make disgraceful comments about TOC. What exactly is false that TOC wrote about. I went thru his comments to Cheryl Fox and it is very clear. He left out Chinese and clearly accepted that Indians and Malays could not speak proper English. Why offer comments when the original premise is the issue. I hate to say it but the Indian community has to dig deep and get some true representatives. The stereotype that Indians and their tongue gets more credence with an Indian cabinet doing just that.
Dolts like Hri Kumar and Shanmugam are a disgrace to the Indians. They have no moral authority to be representing Indians in parliament.Instead of castigating SHT for poor comprehension and language skills, they joined in to rub more salt into the wound.I am truly surprised that a nutcase like Seng does not realise that he himself who is a Chinese cannot understand what the SMRT spokesman had said, and chose to single out the Malays and Indians, who I thought usually speak better than the Chinese. Do you still want examples?
 
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The GRC and the race quote was never to protect the minority representation in public.

It was an ingenious excuse and kudos for coming out with it. It was to make it harder for opposition to come together and take on PAP. JBJ took on Pang in a single ward and the GRC was to protect vulnerable wards. With the 1991 loses, GCT increased the number of GRC and the size of it and the votes went towards them.

Good minority candidates can make it as they had done in the past before GRC came into being. What they need is not only their profile as credible candidates but good political parties. There are well qualified minority candidates and many have refused to join the PAP. The ones you see with PAP has created the impression that these are the only good ones out there.

Minority candidates in western democracies have done well. We have some many Chinese, Black and Indians that have done well in UK, US, OZ and NZ and they are not in GRCs. There is only one country in the world with a GRC system. Always keep and eye on PAP bullshit. There was one clown with strong opposition in this forum who also felt that GRC was important to protect minorities. What a blurfuck.

Singapore society is not 'colour-blind',that is the hard truth. The MPs from the minority races cannot be seen defending or leading their races against the majority race. Unlike LKY, I do think Hsien Loong is indeed 'colour-blind' and should any of his children fall in love or get married to a non-chinese, will gladly accept things. But under PAP rule, only Chindians (Chinese Indians) and Chinlays (Chinese Malays) have a chance to rise in politics. The thoroughbreds will come in and go as MPs..just to 'give a voice' to the minorty who refuse to accept that Singapore politics is dominated by the chinese and will continue to do so for the next 50 years.
 
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PAP Member of Parliament Seng Han Thong has given a twist to the whole MRT fiasco when he gave his opinion to BlogTV. His comment has literally divert the attention from the competency of SMRT management to the racial remarks embedded he made in the show.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/SmEqiQ-hzvs" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

You can watch the whole BlogTV show <a href="http://www.blogtv.sg/">here</a>.

The Online Citizen has put up an <a href="http://theonlinecitizen.com/2011/12/mp-seng-han-thong-malay-indian-english-inefficiency/">article </a> which attracts more than 10,000 likes within 24 hours. TOC has made a couple of updates since then. Cherian George has made the comment that TOC was wrong in its reporting headlines because MP Seng was "just quoting from SMRT sources". At this point of time, the Law Minister Shanmugam has come out to defend MP Seng while the other PAP minority MPs like Halimah and Inderjit have expressed regret that MP Seng has made such comment.

Seng Han Thong (SHT) has initially denied any wrong doing while stressing that he has been quoted "out of context". Subsequently, he came up with an official apology but still insisted that his words have been misconstrued. He finally came up with another press statement to say that he was actually trying to "defend" the SMRT staff but it was TOC which put up the wrong headline. You can read his full statement <a href="http://publichouse.sg/categories/topstory/item/339-mp-seng-han-thong-apologises-to-ntwu">her</a>e.

The magnitude of this issue has inevitably attract the attention of the higher echelon of PAP leadership due to the more than 10,000 likes on TOC article within 24 hours. Debates are going on whether SHT has made a verbal blunder or that TOC has put up "falsehood" on its website.

I am going to dissect on this issue on two fronts. First on whether SHT agreed with SMRT VP assessment that the staff could not handle the situation well because of their deficiency in English language. Secondly, on whether SHT is trying to "defend" the workers.

Some people, including the Minister of Law Shanmugam has claimed that what TOC has put up is falsehood or inappropriate Headline. Let's read the initial article put up by TOC. It says only the following:

<blockquote>
"In a BlogTV programme MP for Ang Mo Kio GRC Seng Han Thong admitted that part of the problem with the SMRT breakdowns last week is due to SMRT staffs not being trained in emergency preparedness. He said that because some staffs are “Malay(s), they are Indians, they cannot converse in English good, well enough”. See from 6.12 minutes"</blockquote>

Watch the video again.

1) SHT did not DISAGREE with the quote or rather the misquote he thought he has heard from radio, on what the SMRT VP has said. In fact, he has to agree with whatever quotes he believed he heard in order to make the following comment that the staff should use broken English. He did not disagree the context that the staff cannot or uncomfortable to speak proper English.

So, is it "falsehood" that TOC has made in its article and headline that SHT admits that the SMRT staff cannot converse well in English? Apparently not.

2) If you are still not convinced, roll back and watch the front part. He said the problem should be split into two. SHT has made quite a silly remark about SMRT staff could handle emergency like terrorist attack but could not handle train breakdown. Then he "misquoted" SMRT VP to say that this problem occurs because some SMRT staff because they are Malays or Indians, cannot converse well in English. SHT did not disagree with SMRT VP's assessment but offer a solution, that is to tell the SMRT staff to use broken English instead.

SHT has responded at first instance that he has been quoted out of context and misrepresented by TOC. Apparently he didn't realize or understand that his remark or rather, misquote of SMRT VP, is potentially racial in nature. He blamed it on others like TOC who has misinterpreted him.

Whether SHT is a racist or not, I have no comment on it because I don't really know him personally. I only know him as a public figure, an elected Member of Parliament. Naturally, we would be more demanding on an elected MP, be it PAP or opposition. He is not the Tom, Dick or Harry we meet on the street but a politician who has been elected to represent the constituents.

As a politician, we would expect him to be ultra sensitive to racial connotation inherently. Even if he has quoted SMRT spokesman, it doesn't mean that there is nothing wrong with what he has said. For a politician like him, if he truly believes that SMRT spokesman has said what he has quoted, the first thing in mind is to rebut such racial tag. But SHT didn't do that. He repeated it as a matter of fact, agreed with it and added his own comment that the staff should use broken English instead. If he doesn't agree with what SMRT spokesman has said, why would he suggest using broken English?

SHT may not be racist but at the very least, he has failed quite badly as a politician, a PAP MP to be exact. He lacks racial sensitivity.

SHT tries to defend himself by saying that he was just trying to defend the workers. Did he really do that during that BlogTV program?

He agrees with SMRT assessment that crisis management was compromised due to the workers' lack of linguistic abilities, instead of reprimanding the SMRT of neglect in training the staff in both technical and linguistic aspects.

He wasn't "defending" the staff at all. He was merely telling the staff that they could just use broken English. He seemingly agreed with the blame on the staff's linguistic inadequacy contributed to the bad crisis management during the train breakdown.

I will put up examples on how he could have REALLY DEFENDED the staff:

1) If he has honestly heard wrongly that the SMRT VP was talking about only Indian and Malay workers having problems in speaking English, he should actually say it has nothing to do with their race! That's defending them.

2) He should have said, it is SMRT's responsibility to give adequate training to its workers, including English, so that they could perform their duties more effectively and could handle such emergencies well.

3) He should have said, if their workers cannot handle such situations, it is NOT the workers' fault but the SMRT management which failed to provide all necessary training to them. The SMRT management shouldn't use the lack of linguistic ability of its staff as an excuse of not providing such training.

4) He should have said, you cannot expect the staff to handle the situation if the management, for whatever reasons, didn't provide the necessary training.

It seems to me that SHT was trying to defend the SMRT management rather than the workers. He avoided answering the question posted by the host on whether SMRT management more concerned about profits rather than public service. He even went that far to suggest that SMRT could handle terrorist attacks even though they couldn't handle breakdowns like what we have experienced.

SHT has committed a series of blunders right from the start.

1) Misquoting SMRT spokesman.

2) Didn't even realize at first instance that the misquotes which he has put up is potentially racist.

3) Failed to rebut the racist connotation embedded in his misquotation but instead agreed with it unwittingly to make the other point.

4) Trying to cry foul without realizing that he has misquoted SMRT and what he has done is racially insensitive.

5) Shifting blame unto TOC while "apologizing" which makes him looks bad.

6) Trying to say that he is "defending" workers when the video has shown otherwise.

I have only this to say to PAP MP Seng Han Thong: You failed quite badly as a politician and you should do better than this. Just accept the fact that you have made a series of blunders, just apologize and stop blaming others from "mis-representing" you. You are basically insulting the intelligence of the ten of thousands people who have watched what you say whom come to the conclusion that you have made such inappropriate racially sensitive remarks.

Goh Meng Seng
 
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