"Olam shares surge on bonds issue plan - Channel NewsAsia"

[moolightaffairs]

who will buy the bond?

 

[Dinosaur]

I tell you guys, if Muddy Waters ever subject Olam to a Standard & Poor's rating and its results are announced, no amount of antics by Olam and financial backing from Temasick can prevent a collapse of the former.

 

[watchman8]

I tell you guys, if Muddy Waters ever subject Olam to a Standard & Poor's rating and its results are announced, no amount of antics by Olam and financial backing from Temasick can prevent a collapse of the former.

Muddy water can't do it if olam does not want to open book to rating agency. It will be very telling if olam refuses to rate its own bonds even if the rating is free.

 

[Zatoichi]

Yeah, temasick was smart enough to get screwed thoroughly so many times in past decade. You want a list? If you look solely at their non-GLC investments, the statistics will likely shock a lot of people.

So are you implying that you expect ALL of Temasek's investments to be winners?

Investing is like gambling.
Sometimes even if you have 4 Aces, and you bet BIG, there's still a chance that your opponent might have a straight flush, right?

Temasek/GIC is like the Singapore version of Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway.
Which is why I'm wondering why money-minded Singaporeans are not contented with the fact that Temasek/GIC has GROWN its portfolio assets MULTIPLE times since the 1980s until now AND with ZERO debt to other countries since all Singapore government debt comes from Singaporeans.

If people want to place their trust in so-called "democracy" and the "democratic process" and not realize that it always ends up in crony capitalism, then they should just be prepared that they will not have any control over the usage of the taxes they pay to the government (managed by whichever winning party), regardless of whether they have voted for the winning party or the losing party, simply because they VOLUNTARILY participated in the "democratic process", deludedly BELIEVING that it's for their own "good", and are OBLIGED to ACCEPT DEFEAT if the party they voted for loses, and also obliged to "respectfully" ACCEPT the policies of whichever party that wins as the "will of the people" because of "majority rule", regardless of whether they voted for it or not, so as to be a "good sport", so to speak, and not a "sore loser".

(Just in case anyone is curious, I have never voted in any electon, parliamentary or presidential, and have no intention to ever vote in any future ones.)

Many of Olam agri investments are in countries with unstable government and/or weak legal framework. That's why I ask if temasick can verify all the underlying investments? If cannot, then temasick better don't double down.

Temasek CANNOT.
But it's OBLIGED to GAMBLE (based on whatever it thinks to be the best possible investment at any point in time) on behalf of Singaporeans, otherwise the 2-3 million Singaporeans in the 1980s would never have survived, let alone prospered, until now.
Just, say, 20 years after independence in 1965, Singaporeans would have had to kowtow to the Malaysian government and become slaves of the Malay upper-class in Malaysia.
That's the HARD truth, I'm afraid.

If Singaporeans didn't/don't want Temasek/GIC to take risks and invest (which are simply the politically correct terms for GAMBLE), ALL our foreign-exchange reserves would have been stuck in foreign government bonds until now, and the combined assets of Temasek/GIC would probably be way below the current US$400 billion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sovereign_wealth_funds

many mum and pop sinkies are in this. Temasick coming out strongly to support olam will give these mum and pops confidence to hold until eventual end. The political impact will be much larger.

Haha, so now you are finally agreeing with me that politics is involved?

I tell you guys, if Muddy Waters ever subject Olam to a Standard & Poor's rating and its results are announced, no amount of antics by Olam and financial backing from Temasick can prevent a collapse of the former.

Temasek/GIC/PAP are in CAHOOTS with the uppermost classes of rich/powerful people around the world.
So-called "credit rating agencies" are really just PUPPETS of the uppermost classes.
Do you think these uppermost classes of rich/powerful people will allow their fellow cronies, such as Temasek/GIC/PAP, to be downgraded via their GLCs?

There are reasons why the British favoured Singapore as one of its favourite cities in East Asia in the 19th/20th century.
And there are reasons why LKY had so much freedom to speak his mind to foreign correspondents and allowed to control Singaporeans in his own way from the 1960s until at least the 1990s.
And even until now, Singaporeans are still much more controlled by their government than citizens of most other first-world governments.

Why is this so?
Simply because Singapore is SPECIAL.
It is a one-of-a-kind island-city-state in not just East Asia, but the whole world, and a VERY valuable asset for all these upper-class people around the world.

 

[Loofydralb]

So are you implying that you expect ALL of Temasek's investments to be winners?

The simple answer is YES.

Otherwise don't play with our money. Use your own.

Don't overpay yourselves obscenely while calling yourselves talents but lose our money.

Investment is not gambling. Since you see it such, I am worried. Gamblers lose their pants eventually. Investors reap profits, however small.

 

[KopiO]

So are you implying that you expect ALL of Temasek's investments to be winners?

...............................................

That's the HARD truth, I'm afraid.

If Singaporeans didn't/don't want Temasek/GIC to take risks and invest (which are simply the politically correct terms for GAMBLE), ALL our foreign-exchange reserves would have been stuck in foreign government bonds until now, and the combined assets of Temasek/GIC would probably be way below the current US$400 billion:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_sovereign_wealth_funds

Haha, so now you are finally agreeing with me that politics is involved?



Temasek/GIC/PAP are in CAHOOTS with the uppermost classes of rich/powerful people around the world.
So-called "credit rating agencies" are really just PUPPETS of the uppermost classes.
Do you think these uppermost classes of rich/powerful people will allow their fellow cronies, such as Temasek/GIC/PAP, to be downgraded via their GLCs?

There are reasons why the British favoured Singapore as one of its favourite cities in East Asia in the 19th/20th century.
And there are reasons why LKY had so much freedom to speak his mind to foreign correspondents and allowed to control Singaporeans in his own way from the 1960s until at least the 1990s.
And even until now, Singaporeans are still much more controlled by their government than most other first-world governments.

Why is this so?
Simply because Singapore is SPECIAL.
It is a one-of-a-kind island-city-state in not just East Asia, but the whole world, and a VERY valuable asset for all these upper-class people around the world.

Very insightful post!

IMHO Olam is screwed. For a long time to come if not forever, i.e. will be eaten up one way or another. Personally I'll not touch it.

 

[KopiO]

The simple answer is YES.

Otherwise don't play with our money. Use your own.

Don't overpay yourselves obscenely while calling yourselves talents but lose our money.

Investment is not gambling. Since you see it such, I am worried. Gamblers lose their pants eventually. Investors reap profits, however small.

In the real world, how many investors ACTUALLY reap profits?

 

[Zatoichi]

Otherwise don't play with our money. Use your own.

"Your" money?
The so-called "citizens' money"?

There is a reason why Jesus Christ said:
"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" (Matthew 22:21)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...

It's simply because ALL currency, especially PAPER currency, comes from the government.

So-called citizens, who are really just cowards and slaves who are afraid to be heroes and die (but I don't mean commit suicide) for what is morally right, and who CHOOSE to accept the BRIBE of MONEY from the government in return for working hard as SLAVES (and this even includes corporate slaves and the upper-middle class, and even the lower ranks of the upper class), should just see their so-called "taxes" as NON-EXISTENT because it's something that comes from the government.

For example, instead of seeing, say, 10% of an annual take-home salary of S$100,000 being "taxed" by the government, one should see it as a 90% BRIBE that the government is bribing one with from the annual take-home salary of S$100,000. Or even better, don't bother with percentages; just see it as an absolute figure, i.e. an annual bribe of S$90,000.

Don't overpay yourselves obscenely while calling yourselves talents but lose our money.

These "talents" think that they are talented because they are talented enough to BRAINWASH/BRIBE/BULLY the majority of the population to serve them as slaves.

Investment is not gambling. Since you see it such, I am worried. Gamblers lose their pants eventually. Investors reap profits, however small.

Once again, ALL investors reap profits?
No company has ever seen its stock price crash or go to zero?

Investing IS Gambling.
If I have 4 Aces, I would bet big, because there's a very high chance that I'll win and win big against my opponent (and I don't mean the casino, but real fellow players playing against me); but there's also a small chance that my opponent could have a straight flush, which would beat my 4 Aces, causing me to lose, so that even if I had bet small, I would also have lost.

Investing = Risk-taking = politically correct term for GAMBLING.

Olam could become another Wilmar, or it could become another ABC; we'll just have to wait and see...

 

[ray_of_hope]

Good chance that the orang putih will win.

 

[avelc]

The CEO took Muddy Waters' bait. Let's watch the games, it is far from over.

 

[soikee]

Temasek/GIC is like the Singapore version of Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway.

Which is why I'm wondering why money-minded Singaporeans are not contented with the fact that Temasek/GIC has GROWN its portfolio assets
MULTIPLE times since the 1980s until now AND with ZERO debt to other countries since all Singapore government debt comes from Singaporeans.

Pls don't make my toes luff lah!

When the whore lost tens of billions on Merill Lynch and many other investments in 2008/2009, she resorted to sell away the nation's jewels; our power plants.

Whenever the kitty runs low, just transfer from CPF and that's how the multiple times have been achieved to justify her fucking obscene salary (12m - 18m pa).

You're not obliged to reply, but if you do, for God's sake make it short and sweet.

 

[soikee]

Using our CPF money to bailout Olam

 

[watchman8]

Pls don't make my toes luff lah!

When the whore lost tens of billions on Merill Lynch and many other investments in 2008/2009, she resorted to sell away the nation's jewels; our power plants.

Whenever the kitty runs low, just transfer from CPF and that's how the multiple times have been achieved to justify her fucking obscene salary (12m - 18m pa).

You're not obliged to reply, but if you do, for God's sake make it short and sweet.

I think technically is cpf board buys sg govt bonds from MAS. mAS then transfer the bond sales proceed to MOF. MOF then transfer the cash to temasick to book as increase in total asset.

The company PR man here is going into overdrive today. I must have hit a raw nerve, and suddenly his postings doesn't make any sense. It like someone who is cornered, and yet has to say something because that is his job, so he decided to speak gibberish hoping to confuse and divert attention.

Some people are novice. They think beating around the bush and throwing smoke bombs can work. Thanks to his effort, now we know where the raw nerve is.

 

[watchman8]

The simple answer is YES.

Otherwise don't play with our money. Use your own.

Don't overpay yourselves obscenely while calling yourselves talents but lose our money.

Investment is not gambling. Since you see it such, I am worried. Gamblers lose their pants eventually. Investors reap profits, however small.

Don't take his bait. It is not practical to win all the time, but over time, the aggregate has to make money above inflation rate, adjusted for currency changes. Temasick non-GLC investments certain missed the mark by a huge margin.

For the past decade, temasick has made more than fair share of mistakes in non-GLC investments because of major strategic investment errors. when Shin corp happened, i still think it is one off. then their big rush into global finance stocks right before the GFC, and another big strategic push into commodities post GFC. There is a clear trend of temasick getting royally screwed much more than other SWFs. Something is certainly very wrong in the decision making process, and both temasick and GIC are hiding their books.

ABC learning was highly indicative of the unprofessional conduct within temasick. Imagine investing hundreds of millions, and the company collapsed within months thereafter. Where is the due diligence? Now we will see what happens to olam.

 

[Zatoichi]

Pls don't make my toes luff lah!

Uh, is that a compliment?
I mean, if I managed to make you laugh, isn't that a good thing for you?
To relieve stress, etc.?

You're not obliged to reply, but if you do, for God's sake make it short and sweet.

Okay, here goes, but I'm not sure if it's "sweet"...

It's serious, though...

Since you used the word, "God", my reply is (to quote myself again):

There is a reason why Jesus Christ said:
"Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's" (Matthew 22:21)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Render_unto_Caesar...

It's simply because ALL currency, especially PAPER currency, comes from the government.

So-called citizens, who are really just cowards and slaves who are afraid to be heroes and die (but I don't mean commit suicide) for what is morally right, and who CHOOSE to accept the BRIBE of MONEY from the government in return for working hard as SLAVES (and this even includes corporate slaves and the upper-middle class, and even the lower ranks of the upper class), should just see their so-called "taxes" as NON-EXISTENT because it's something that comes from the government.

For example, instead of seeing, say, 10% of an annual take-home salary of S$100,000 being "taxed" by the government, one should see it as a 90% BRIBE that the government is bribing one with from the annual take-home salary of S$100,000. Or even better, don't bother with percentages; just see it as an absolute figure, i.e. an annual bribe of S$90,000.

Thanks to his effort, now we know where the raw nerve is.

Haha, may I know where/what that "raw nerve" is? LOL
And who is this "company PR man" you speak of? LOL

All I know is that I've been having fun posting so far! LOL

For the past decade, temasick has made more than fair share of mistakes in non-GLC investments because of major strategic investment errors.

Once again, I'm the one who's confused by your opinions.

To quote: http://www.forbes.com/profile/ho-ching/
"Temasek has grown and transformed under Ho Ching, focusing it's portfolio on the twin transformations of Asia and Singapore to expand from S$77 billion to S$198 billion over the course of a decade."

From many people's (both those who are pro-Temasek or just neutral) point of view, and not just mine, you are simply nit-picking.

then their big rush into global finance stocks right before the GFC

If they had bought during the lows in late 2008 or early 2009, they would have been seen as vultures, not friends.

Whereas when they bought in a year earlier, they were seen as PROMPT and FRIENDLY helpers to their cronies in need.
A crony in need is a crony indeed! LOL
http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/a-friend-in-need.html

and another big strategic push into commodities post GFC.

If you're referring to 2009/2010, then it seems that you are mistaken.
Just look at the charts for gold, corn, oil, etc.
2009/2010 was the time to buy back into commodities after the correction (from the 2008 highs) ended.

Something is certainly very wrong in the decision making process, and both temasick and GIC are hiding their books.

Which is why I'm trying to ENLIGHTEN you! LOL
To help you see the light!
To understand Temasek/GIC's PHILOSOPHY! LOL

Personally, I'm NOT pro-Temasek/GIC at all, as I've said before.
But I do understand their PHILOSOPHY! LOL

Once again, seriously, sometimes it's really not about the money.
If monetary profits happen to be gained, that's a bonus, but not the be-all and end-all.

 

[Confuseous]

The market has spoken. They don't want to be involved with something that even analysts find complex and which actually forces you to buy a 'set meal' when all you want is a hamburger.

It is now $1-56 (down 2% or 4 cents) from yesterday. Next stop at $1-47.

But then again, it could have been worse.

 

[ray_of_hope]

This morning there is some major dumping.

 

[IamTiong]

who will buy the bond?

Noone except TEMASEK!

 

[TracyTan866]

the rise has been erased.

 

[watchman8]

To quote: http://www.forbes.com/profile/ho-ching/
"Temasek has grown and transformed under Ho Ching, focusing it's portfolio on the twin transformations of Asia and Singapore to expand from S$77 billion to S$198 billion over the course of a decade."

A few direct questions:
1. How much of these growth from S$77bn to S$198bn is from special transfers of cash from MOF?
2. How much of these growth from S$77bn to S$198bn is from special transfers of national assets at low prices from the government? Eg. power stations.
3. How much of these growth from S$77bn to S$198bn is from organic growth of GLCs like Singtel, SMRT, DBS, Keppel, Capitaland, ST, Starhub, Singpost etc? By organic growth I include share price increase as well as dividends.

Why do I want to strip away GLC investments in evaluation of Temasick? Because all these GLCs have sweetheart deals across the country that helps maintain their high profit margin. So the good performance of GLC has got nothing to do with Temasick investment prowess.

My point earlier is very direct, which is to strip away the GLC investments, and look solely at the non-GLC portion of Temasick. You have deliberately steered away and throw smoke bombs from my earlier post, which indicates your raw nerve.