NS Death – 30,000 people protest in Taipei today

[Froggy]

no son of mother should die like that especially during national slavery. at least taiwan kia mothers concern about the sons of other mothers. sinking land is opposite, other people sons can die but not their son.

tonychat is right all along.

This case is interesting because it's like a spark that created an inferno, now many individual cases from old past surfaced and everyone is noticing. I wonder when this spark will appear in Singapore to bring the whole fucking house down.

 

[Froggy]

Tide may be starting to turn because more and more are personally adversely affected by policies, an example of how the tide has turned is the result in Punggol east BE, not so much Aljunied and Hougang.

But not turning in terms of overall mentality and attitude changing imho.

Firstly, the attitude and mentality (which I constantly refer to as establishment mentality inherited or acquired from you-know-who) is already deeply entrenched in many people, and these people may not even be from the establishment and elite. People are still looking after their own and family interests and not for society.

Secondly, there are so many of "them", as in pappies and their helpers, families, relatives, friends, supporters, PAWS, hangers-on, groupies, entourage etc. Although I made a joke about the number of "members" in the article written by that pap member who is also a hawker, it is really worrying how many of them there really are.

That's why I said they have entrenched themselves into so many parts of our lives, another example will be GRC and Temasek so many "sio phu chin" in these companies like its their own family owned businesses, to un-knot this to return them to the citizens will be almost impossible. FUCK the PAP!

 

[Narong Wongwan]

The Taiwanese really bother to show their disgust and displeasure against social injustice, even if it does not concern them personally.
Unlike Sinkies.

Sinkies when concern them also lan lan cum chui tat lan tiam tiam let pappies fuck and keep voting pappies.

 

[sleaguepunter]

But not turning in terms of overall mentality and attitude changing imho.

sporeans were ingrained from young not to be confrontational. make worse by brain washing from young by educators to conform to pap mentality. so even when kenna bully, the most the child will do was to complain to teachers which cannot stop the bully at all. i am now teaching my son to just punch the bully in the face if anyone bully him due to his small size which already happen a few times. must stand up for his own rights, as long as it justify, i not only wont punish him, i will support him in school. only by doing this, he will then understand as he grow up to know his rights and wont be roughshod into silence by bullies in white when he get older.

 

[sleaguepunter]

no son of mother should die like that especially during national slavery. at least taiwan kia mothers concern about the sons of other mothers. sinking land is opposite, other people sons can die but not their son.

tonychat is right all along.

taiwanese army had too many death since conscription started. there were many coverups in the past, it only now when media in taiwan are free that this sort of news get reported. what make this case worse was that the main cause of death was not the training itself but it due to superiors using power of their rank to punish the deseased because of personal quarrels.

the whole thing is blown out of proportion, the media are fueling the public anger. didnt even give taiwan MOD a chance to find out the truth and court martial the the people involved in the case. now the whole case become a circus and the suspects wont have a fair trial as MOD will have to give the maximium sentence in order to pacify the public.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Have to give credit to the taiwanese in coming out to demonstrate against an injustic. Shows that all is not lost on being a hokkien. In spore. Such numbers only turn up too support faggots banging each other in the bum. Guess spore is a lost cause.

 

[I_Hate_Pappies]

The Taiwanese really bother to show their disgust and displeasure against social injustice, even if it does not concern them personally.
Unlike Sinkies.

Spot on. One of the fucktard is in this thread too. He only kpkb when shit hits him. Remember he kpkb when the haze came? Why?
Cos the haze affected his life. :oIo: Fucking selFISH CHEEBYE :oIo:

 

[jw5]

Spot on. One of the fucktard is in this thread too. He only kpkb when shit hits him. Remember he kpkb when the haze came? Why?
Cos the haze affected his life. :oIo: Fucking selFISH CHEEBYE :oIo:

And it's quite easy to tell he is a pappy.
This is the type when we discuss about protests in other countries about social injustice and unfair treatment of ordinary folk, he will ask "How does this affect us?" Makes you wonder whether he is AB or FB.
Or when we ask when we can get back your cpf money, he will say "This is to help you save for your old age."
An incorrigible recalcitrant PAWS and establishment/government apologist.

 

[Sinkie]

What an almighty difference compared to S'poreans.

Do you know why there is a difference?

Tell you why. Because the Taiwanese media, there are many TV networks and some are anti-establishment and cannot be censored, just like in USA, where anybody can set up a TV network and broadcast their point of views. Also, the TV networks have very committed and excellent investigative reporters, who dig deep and expose all the cover-ups.

 

[songsongjurong]

http://sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/95085



Friday September 24, 2004. 8:17 PM
Commandos trial: Witness relates dunking death of soldier
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SINGAPORE: A witness has told a subordinate court hearing the death of Second Sergeant Hu Enhuai he saw the 19-year-old struggling violently as his head was being dunked into the tub of water.
Sergeant Hu was a Guard sniper who died after attending a "Prisoner of War" training session at Pulau Tekong last year.

Yen Li Khai, who was a National Service infantry sergeant sent to the Commando camp to help conduct the Combat Survival Training Course at that time, said Sergeant Hu's hands were held down to prevent him from struggling and his head was held underwater for up to 20 seconds each time.

Sergeant Yen, who is now studying in Australia, also said he was shocked by how the Commando trainers treated Hu and Captain Ho Wan Huo.

He said the Commando trainers treated these two trainees much more harshly than any of the other trainees.

Sergeant Yen's job during the training was to blindfold and bind the hands of the trainees who were "prisoners of war" and to escort them to the water treatment area where the trainees would be interrogated by the Commando trainers.

Sergeant Yen said he was about 15 to 20 metres away from the tub used to dunk them.

He testified that he saw Lieutenant Ng Chin Fong push and hold Sergeant Hu's head underwater for 10 to 20 seconds.

Sergeant Yen said: "He (Hu) stuggled violently. After that, he was brought out of the water for about four to five seconds before his head was submerged again. During the time his head was lifted out of the water, the deceased was gasping for air."

Sergeant Yen continued: "He was breathing heavily when his head was lifted above the water. When the deceased completed the session, Lieutenant Jeff pulled the deceased out of the tub and the deceased fell to the ground.

"The deceased was motionless and I saw water coming out of his mouth. The deceased was vomiting water from his mouth."

As for the other trainee Captain Ho Wan Huo who survived but almost drowned, Sergent Yen said Lieutenant Divanand Hari had covered his mouth, nose and eyes and then pushed his head into underwater.

During the course of the evidence, the prosecution brought in a dummy blindfolded and hands tied behind the back for Sergeant Yen to demonstrate to the court how the dunking of Sergeant Hu and Captain Ho had been done.

However, the family members of Sergeant Hu were not in court to witness the demonstration.

Under cross-examination, Sergeant Yen said there were other instructors helping Lieutenant Diva during the water treatment component of the survival training.

Sergeant Yen added that another accused person, Captain Pandiaraj, was at the scene and he could have stopped the instructors from continuing the treatment. - CNA

 

[numero uno]

http://sgforums.com/forums/1390/topics/95085



Friday September 24, 2004. 8:17 PM
Commandos trial: Witness relates dunking death of soldier
ADVERTISEMENT

SINGAPORE: A witness has told a subordinate court hearing the death of Second Sergeant Hu Enhuai he saw the 19-year-old struggling violently as his head was being dunked into the tub of water.
Sergeant Hu was a Guard sniper who died after attending a "Prisoner of War" training session at Pulau Tekong last year.

Yen Li Khai, who was a National Service infantry sergeant sent to the Commando camp to help conduct the Combat Survival Training Course at that time, said Sergeant Hu's hands were held down to prevent him from struggling and his head was held underwater for up to 20 seconds each time.

Sergeant Yen, who is now studying in Australia, also said he was shocked by how the Commando trainers treated Hu and Captain Ho Wan Huo.

He said the Commando trainers treated these two trainees much more harshly than any of the other trainees.

Sergeant Yen's job during the training was to blindfold and bind the hands of the trainees who were "prisoners of war" and to escort them to the water treatment area where the trainees would be interrogated by the Commando trainers.

Sergeant Yen said he was about 15 to 20 metres away from the tub used to dunk them.

He testified that he saw Lieutenant Ng Chin Fong push and hold Sergeant Hu's head underwater for 10 to 20 seconds.

Sergeant Yen said: "He (Hu) stuggled violently. After that, he was brought out of the water for about four to five seconds before his head was submerged again. During the time his head was lifted out of the water, the deceased was gasping for air."

Sergeant Yen continued: "He was breathing heavily when his head was lifted above the water. When the deceased completed the session, Lieutenant Jeff pulled the deceased out of the tub and the deceased fell to the ground.

"The deceased was motionless and I saw water coming out of his mouth. The deceased was vomiting water from his mouth."

As for the other trainee Captain Ho Wan Huo who survived but almost drowned, Sergent Yen said Lieutenant Divanand Hari had covered his mouth, nose and eyes and then pushed his head into underwater.

During the course of the evidence, the prosecution brought in a dummy blindfolded and hands tied behind the back for Sergeant Yen to demonstrate to the court how the dunking of Sergeant Hu and Captain Ho had been done.

However, the family members of Sergeant Hu were not in court to witness the demonstration.

Under cross-examination, Sergeant Yen said there were other instructors helping Lieutenant Diva during the water treatment component of the survival training.

Sergeant Yen added that another accused person, Captain Pandiaraj, was at the scene and he could have stopped the instructors from continuing the treatment. - CNA

in USA or taiwan or even korea, these assholes commando trainers would have been charged with manslaughter at least and jailed . here in sinkieland they got off scot free and just got transferred to another unit. No demotion even. sure insulting to the deceased families. i'm sure there is bullying in the camp and the poor deceased probably step on somebody toes and got treated more harshly than others. the family shoudl sue te butts of the SAF and the trainers. there is karma and these buggers would get their retribution soon. been in commando and seen too amny of these assholes bullies who think they can get away with anything but are actually chicken shit once outside. the worst are the shit skin commandoes who like to target the chinese trainers as they feel discrimintaed outside. believe me when i said these are the worst shits

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Its also the attitude of the SAF NCOs and officers. Look at Boss Sam here,,,saying how he tekan his men during his NS days...if this is the typical attitude of many in the training schools than there will be more deaths.

I know in active units, the rank and file and officers and NCOs need to work as the rank and file can cause problems during maneuvers. And the whole exercise will fail. Than all the higher ups will ask questions and so on.

Anyway...NS needs to be modified or abolish..NS now is nothing but a system to feed PAP and its civil serpents.