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Chitchat My Adopted Mongrel :(

AhMeng

Alfrescian (Inf- Comp)
Asset
I adopted an old mongrel last year. She's 16 now. Over the weekend, brought her to a vet as her neck was swelling. Did all the tests and was told that she is suffering from Stage 3 going to Stage 4 multi centric lymphoma cancer. :(

Wanted to send her for chemo but vet says she's already in Stage 3 to 4 where the cancer cells have spread to organs ( from scan, blood test and other test results ). . She says it's my choice. I don't mind paying for the chemo treatment, but I am worried about quality of her life.

She gets easily tired nowadays.

Any vets here in this forum? What's your opinion?
 
Last edited:

Leckmichamarsch

Alfrescian
Loyal
I adopted an old mongrel last year. She's 16 now. Over the weekend, brought her to a vet as her neck was swelling. Did all the tests and was told that she is suffering from Stage 3 going to Stage 4 multi centric lymphoma cancer. :(

Wanted to send her for chemo but vet says she's already in Stage 3 to 4 where the cancer cells have spread to organs ( from scan, blood test and other test results ). . She says it's my choice. I don't mind paying for the chemo treatment, but I am worried about quality of her life.

She gets easily tired nowadays.

Any vets here in this forum? What's your opinion?
TIME TO LET GO
I HAD TO GAS MY BELOVED DOGGY TO DEATH IN ORDER THAT HE STOPS SUFFERING DAILY FROM FAILING ORGANS..........I MURDERED HIM BUT IT IS BETW THE DEVIL N DEEP BLUE SEA.............DAT MOMENT HAUNTS ME BUT I M GLAD he was relieved of the pain n agony daily!!!!!!!!!!1
 

AhMeng

Alfrescian (Inf- Comp)
Asset
TIME TO LET GO
I HAD TO GAS MY BELOVED DOGGY TO DEATH IN ORDER THAT HE STOPS SUFFERING DAILY FROM FAILING ORGANS..........I MURDERED HIM BUT IT IS BETW THE DEVIL N DEEP BLUE SEA.............DAT MOMENT HAUNTS ME BUT I M GLAD he was relieved of the pain n agony daily!!!!!!!!!!1
She's still eating and shitting well. Just easily tired.
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
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She's still eating and shitting well. Just easily tired.

My children love cats. Wish to have one. But i warned them. Animals are no play things/toys. They are just like human too...have feelings and soul. Whether in happy times or suffering times we need to pay attention and take care of them. So wat right have i to take away their lives when they are beyond hope or recovery? But tats me lah. I cant speak for others.
 

AhMeng

Alfrescian (Inf- Comp)
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My children love cats. Wish to have one. But i warned them. Animals are no play things/toys. They are just like human too...have feelings and soul. Whether in happy times or suffering times we need to pay attention and take care of them. So wat right have i to take away their lives when they are beyond hope or recovery? But tats me lah. I cant speak for others.
Understood .. quality of life is important for them...
 

AhMeng

Alfrescian (Inf- Comp)
Asset
TIME TO LET GO
I HAD TO GAS MY BELOVED DOGGY TO DEATH IN ORDER THAT HE STOPS SUFFERING DAILY FROM FAILING ORGANS..........I MURDERED HIM BUT IT IS BETW THE DEVIL N DEEP BLUE SEA.............DAT MOMENT HAUNTS ME BUT I M GLAD he was relieved of the pain n agony daily!!!!!!!!!!1

Still reading on the net for possible options... Came across this article...

Two Dogs: Same Cancer Diagnosis, Two Different Outcomes


THE DAILY VET BLOG

11.11.15

Most owners of pets with cancer are fixated on the familiar phrase “survival time.” The words describe the approximate length of time a pet is expected to live following its diagnosis.

Survival time is a meaningful endpoint to measure for humans with cancer, where death occurs as a natural part of disease progression. In veterinary medicine, survival time is a complicated marker of outcome because of the bias introduced by euthanasia.

I struggle with answering owners when they ask me to predict their pet’s survival time. Despite being an expert in veterinary oncology, trying to anticipate how long a patient will live is nearly impossible.

Experience affords me the ability to describe the signs their pet will show as the disease progresses. I can forecast whether there will be issues related to appetite or pain, respiratory or gastrointestinal distress. I can usually pinpoint how long a decline will last on the order of days to weeks to months. But I cannot tell an owner how long their pet will live because that decision, in the vast majority of cases I see, is up to them.

Consider the hypothetical scenario of two different sets of owners of dogs with an identical diagnosis of lymphoma. Lymphoma is a common blood borne cancer in dogs and cats.

Dog #1, a 5-year-old mixed breed, was diagnosed after his primary veterinarian palpated enlarged lymph nodes during its physical exam performed prior to routine vaccinations. Lymphoma is frequently diagnosed incidentally, as was seen in this dog that showed no adverse signs related to its cancer.

Dog #2, a 14-year-old shepherd, was determined to have lymphoma after his primary veterinarian performed a thorough diagnostic work up for a several week history of lethargy, vomiting, poor appetite, and weight loss.

Both dogs were diagnosed with the same cancer. Both owners underwent the same consultation with me and I made the exact same diagnostic and treatment recommendations in each case.

The statistics and data I memorized in order to become a board certified medical oncologist tells me that without treatment, dogs diagnosed with lymphoma live an average of one month. With treatment, survival time is about 12 months. This information was relayed to both owners, including expected quality of life, both with and without treatment.

Dog #1’s owners elected to pursue treatment. They felt their pet was young, otherwise healthy, and they possessed the emotional and financial reserves to move forward with all of my recommendations. Their pet underwent six months of treatment, attaining remission for a total of 14 months, and was euthanized when the cancer resurfaced and clinical signs caused a decline in quality of life unacceptable to their standards.

Dog #2’s owners elected to euthanize their dog the day after meeting with me. They knew their pet was geriatric and approaching the end of his normal expected lifespan. Their dog was also sick at the time of diagnosis, further reducing their interest in pursuing aggressive treatment.

In each instance above, despite the identical diagnosis, the survival times are vastly different—1 day versus 20 months.

These examples demonstrate several key points:

Despite what research studies suggest, neither dog lived to their expected survival. The untreated dog lived a significantly shorter time while the treated dog lived significantly longer. My predictions for survival time were incorrect in both cases

In both cases, the owners decided their pets’ survival time. Neither dog passed “naturally,” so we will never know an accurate numerical time frame for how long they would have survived.

Variables such as age, overall health status, finances, etc. always play a role in how long pets with cancer will survive. These are unpredictable influences that change outcome equally as often as the more controllable variables do.

I understand why survival time is a major consideration point for owners of pets with cancer. But I also understand my limitations in anticipating survival for the majority of animals I meet.

Owners are often frustrated when I’m vague in my description of how long I believe their pet will live. Many are disappointed the information cannot be measured in more absolute terms.

The best I can do is honestly and openly guide owners through their journey with a pet with cancer and guide them toward the endpoints I consider essential in making decisions about life, death, treatment, palliative care, and quality of life.

Even if the journey is only a few hours long, my job is to ensure that time truly is the most sacred part of the phrase “survival time.”

Dr. Joanne Intile
 

AhMeng

Alfrescian (Inf- Comp)
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Chemotherapy for Senior Dogs
Making the right decision is difficult when it comes to older dogs and cancer.

dogs-dog-health-1.jpg



Q: Our 14-year-old Border Collie was just diagnosed with mediastinal lymphoma after collapsing several times while running. Our veterinarian gave us the option of an MRI and chemotherapy, but given the poor prognosis, we have chosen just to give her prednisone to keep her comfortable. She still goes on daily walks with us and enjoys her food, but I know she is uncomfortable when she lies down as she whines a great deal before settling into sleep. Do you think we are making the right decision not to pursue chemo with a senior dog?

A: These end-of-life issues lead to some very difficult decisions for dog owners. We see many of these cases after-hours because owners are so concerned about whether their dogs are suffering.

Chemotherapy is very hard on people and dogs, and anyone who has experienced it firsthand is familiar with the ups and downs.

One of the hard realities to consider is that, at 14, life expectancy is very limited. If I were your veterinarian, I would be working closely with you to keep your Border Collie as comfortable as possible at home, creating a hospice-like environment.

Pain management with drugs would be crucial. Ask your vet to prescribe some pain-relieving drugs to help make your dog more comfortable. I would encourage you to continue taking her on walks, but keep them very short. Offer the best food possible, and make sure she has a very comfortable bed to rest in. Multiple trips to the veterinary hospital are not something your dog would probably look forward to, and it is very questionable whether the benefits would even be significant.

Jon Geller, DVM
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
bro,
let it die naturally, it's time will come.
what you can do now is to feed it well, keep it company as much as you can. call it palliative care if you wish.
 

whoami

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
bro,
let it die naturally, it's time will come.
what you can do now is to feed it well, keep it company as much as you can. call it palliative care if you wish.

Yes. They made u happy when u are down. Now tat they are down...not fair to make put them to sleep....
 

AhMeng

Alfrescian (Inf- Comp)
Asset
bro,
let it die naturally, it's time will come.
what you can do now is to feed it well, keep it company as much as you can. call it palliative care if you wish.
Just read this too...

Generally speaking, chemotherapy for dogs is prescribed/dosed under the assumption that you are buying time, not curing the cancer. The reason is that we know that dogs can't understand that they are miserable or in pain in order to get better later, and it would be considered cruel to put them through that. So the chemotherapy is administered at lower dosages than what would be given to a human where you are trying to wipe out the cancer completely.

When my dog was diagnosed with lymphoma at age 12, that is what we were told. Despite this, we chose not to pursue the chemo for a variety of reasons, and just kept her comfortable for as long as possible. If she had been younger and if we had caught the cancer earlier, we might have given it a go. I don't regret our decision one bit. She knew she was loved all the way through her last moments.

Best wishes to you and your pup. It's the hardest thing to go through.
posted by misskaz at 2:16 PM on March 12, 2010
 

JustLikeThis

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am sorry to hear about your pet. Ultrasound found something in me and my heart dropped.

Being a family, I feel scared and told myself to work until my last day because I have my dependents. I hope you just make your dog as happy as possible, especially if there is no sign of suffering at this stage yet. Maybe let him go bang some bitches or feast, you probably know what's best for him. sigh
 

AhMeng

Alfrescian (Inf- Comp)
Asset
I am sorry to hear about your pet. Ultrasound found something in me and my heart dropped.

Being a family, I feel scared and told myself to work until my last day because I have my dependents. I hope you just make your dog as happy as possible, especially if there is no sign of suffering at this stage yet. Maybe let him go bang some bitches or feast, you probably know what's best for him. sigh
It's a she and spayed. Thanks ...
 

salim

Alfrescian
Loyal
If I were you, I would put her to sleep. If not, later on, there will be multiple-organ failure, constant pain. Chemo at this stage doesn't really help.
More merciful to let her RIP.
 

kulgai

Alfrescian
Loyal
I adopted an old mongrel last year. She's 16 now. Over the weekend, brought her to a vet as her neck was swelling. Did all the tests and was told that she is suffering from Stage 3 going to Stage 4 multi centric lymphoma cancer. :(

Wanted to send her for chemo but vet says she's already in Stage 3 to 4 where the cancer cells have spread to organs ( from scan, blood test and other test results ). . She says it's my choice. I don't mind paying for the chemo treatment, but I am worried about quality of her life.

She gets easily tired nowadays.

Any vets here in this forum? What's your opinion?

I'm no vet but I think common sense prevails. At 16, your dog is pretty old and I'm sure you know her quality of life has plunged especially now that she has cancer. Why put her through more sufferings with the chemo? Is it so that you can continue to hold on to her for a couple more years? To me , that is selfish and cruel. Personally I would just relieve her of her sufferings once and for all. When such a time comes, pet's owner must be prepared to make hard decisions for the best interest of the pet and not the other way round. Just my personal opinion..
heartless or compassionate? you decide...
 
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