More Action Less Words

[halsey02]

Good points bro silverfox.

I'm quite sure that the recent bank problem was not to prove him wrong. The stakes for everyone are much too high for that. But funny thing is that it DID show that he was wrong. Like many other policies recent and current, they have lost sight of the objective of government and the running of a country. The purpose of having banks or a bank is not for that one bank to be big enough to make acquisitions and inroads all over the world, to make the country richer. The purpose is to have a sound and stable financial system for the improvement and convenience of the country's people and businesses.

The flood issue is another classic case of how they have lost touch with the ordinary people. Even if mother nature played a part, is the best that they can offer that it's an act of god and no amount of engineering can prevent it? Surely it's the job and responsibility of the government, huge pay or not, to improve the infrastructure of the country and the lives of the people, and take whatever measures and precautions necessary. Can you imagine Hu Jintao or Wen Jiabao reacting to the floods in China like that?

Last but not least, we know that they run SG like SG Inc, a company where they consider themselves the top management and shareholders. The objective is to create value for the shareholders and reward the management for a self-appraised job well done, whereas the employees are left to worry about higher prices of food in the staff canteen or even the potential loss of their jobs and deterioration of their well being.

The irony of it all, that for many years in the past; I have pointed out to all the blind lemmings about the danger we face depending on ONE person. They do not want to listen...

I think you do not realise or don't want to, with the recent floods problems. Miraculously it got solved, when LKY came out to talk; NPark is now checking this & that, so is NEA providing weather reports, PUB on the ball & so forth. Shouldn't these problems be solved by the Prime Minister of the country? We need a Lee Kuan Yew to set things right, to ministers who are made to be in charge of that ministries they manages & now had lost their spurs. Are we paying too much for incompetencies? We cannot control the elements, but we can make a difference for own lives, if we hand over daily our lives to all these expensive incompetent people; who needs a Lee Kuan Yew to set things right.

The danger is, we are too dependent on one man; how are these people going to respond to crisies like these, when the one man; in unable & unavailable?

See the danger SINgaporeans....

 

[manokie]

One of my pet peeves for example is lack of justice in society, eg. people who cut queues, or who show inconsiderate behaviour in public.
I'm doing something about it, including telling people off, using something (usually an umbrella these days) to block off people, or even snatching things from them. e.g. nail cutters on public transport.
Well aware that I'm crossing the line, but at least I'm not NATO.

Why not you just trip them with your leg

 

[Logisex]

...I'll throw out an offer.

Anyone who has done research into
1) British Crown history, trade and industry
2) piracy at sea
3) Singapore history
please PM me.

If the info you have is limited to those in the public secondary schools' textbooks, it's not enough. Do not PM.

We are in the same industry but too bad I dun know enuf of the above to PM you!

There are reasons why people dun read T&C:
1) They have no time or even if they have, they might not understand them.
2) Even if they have the time and understand the T&C, they dun have much of a choice......that is fore example unless you have the cash, or else you will need to get a mortgage loan and abide by the T&C (which is more or less the same among the banks).
3) There are exceptions as well but that is provided that you are a big MNC who has bargaining power, then perhaps you might get the bank to waive/amend a few clauses.
4) It is not practical for the banker to read/explain every clause in the T&C to the customer for every transaction. Customer do not have the time/ patiance/intelligence to listen/understand then or they simply dun give a damn. However, bankers do have the obligations to highlight key clauses to them.
5) Then again even if the banker wants to change a clause, he can only do so if it benefits the bank and as you know, the process is tedious and takes a long time (unless it post an immediate danger to the bank in terms of risk/complaince/bottomline).
6) If you pay to go to a doctor, you trust them and expect them to be an expert in their field unless you live in a village with only 1 doctor within a 5000miles range. The same goes with the banker but customers dun know that most bankers know just enuf to carry out their job, are driven by impossible targets and most of them dun read/understand the full T&C themselves.
7) Eveyone is owned by the bank. Even if you dun have any loans, you will probably have a savings account so like it or not, you abide by their rules. You do have a choice in choosing the banks though.
..................

On a personal level, the most important thing is not whether you know how money works but its about your relationship with your money. There are some people who thinks they make so little money each month so no point saving up or do any financial planning. On the other hand, there are some people who realised that they earn so little so they take great care of their money, are fully conscious of how money is spent and at the same time, find ways to make more.

For me, the day that I started to have an intimate relationship with my money is on the day that I break down my monthly salary into an hourly rate, minus off all necessary expenses and how must I'm left after that. It was a wake up call to me. I kept that deatailed calculations in my notebook and refer to it all the time. It motivates me to strive for my long term goal of being financially independent, to increase my current value and to curb my desires.

So now when I plan to buy something, say a Hi-Fi system, I will calculate how many hours I have to work at my current rate in order to buy that Hi-Fi vs the benefits I gather from it vs the other alternatives. I might just settle for my mp3 till I'm comfortable with parting my money.

This is not relevant to the topic so I'll stop here.

Governments should be like banks, who have independent regulators to keep them in check. The problem now is that we have none.

 

[Logisex]

People in this forum are frustrated, unhappy, disappointed or upset over various things, ranging from the government, (well, mostly the government), overcrowding, fake foreign talent, scamsters, fellow samsters, sam himself, telemarketers, charity salesmen, social injustice, gangsters (in and out of this forum), etc etc.

But while we always complain that the goverment officials and civil servants are great at stating the obvious, making motherhood statements, giving lame excuses, parroting the words of "important" people, what are we doing or what have we done about these things that concern us, other than just venting here?

People in this forum are mostly antipappy, but I can tell you from some discreet and not-so-discreet questions asked of friends, relatives, acquaintances, colleagues and business associates, that many others are happy with pappy. Mostly women and new citizens and PRs are happy. Most of those with families and financially well off are happy, or may not be that happy, but are unwilling to express or vote against them for fear of rocking the boat. Mainly only single younger men tend to be more expressive and antipappy.

So all these words here, how do they change anything, when their actual support is so overwhelming?
What are you doing or what have you done to do something about it? Or are we just a bunch of NATO guys?

One of my pet peeves for example is lack of justice in society, eg. people who cut queues, or who show inconsiderate behaviour in public.
I'm doing something about it, including telling people off, using something (usually an umbrella these days) to block off people, or even snatching things from them. e.g. nail cutters on public transport.
Well aware that I'm crossing the line, but at least I'm not NATO.

I'm doing the same as you and in addition, I fark FTs who call me on the phone and whenever possible (be it in a bank, restaurant, spa....), I will request to be served by a local. I will not go to restaurants if I know they are owned by FTs, esp PRCs. I have never eaten at any of those PRCs steamboat restaurants and I've never been to an Old Town coffeeshop.

My dad used to have arguments with my mum (staunch PAP supporter) over all those issues that you see in this forum. My mum also complained about increasing prices etc as well but she used to say that even if you vote for the oppostion, they will also also take the same pay and yet will do nothing or are powerless to do anything. Just look at the MPs of Hougang and Potong Pasir.

Not long ago when I called my mum, she mentioned to me something that my dad said to her before he passed away. He told her that its not about voting for the oppostion for the sake of it and cancelling out what the current government has done, its about having people to keep the goverment in check so that they don't go overboard and do whatever they pleases.

I think she gets the idea so I continue from there. I told her that when she votes, she needs to think of the future of my nephew and nieces (she dotes on them!). She can see how foreigners are flooding the place and people like me had to go abroard in search of a better living. I'm very worried about how tough the future can be for my nephew and nieces if it goes on like this.
I think she finally gets it.

 

[Einfield]

care to contribute some of your insights since you are from within the finance sector, I am not from within but I know simply it's a "You lose, We win" when it come to the banking terms, if you not happy you can don't sign but all other banks have the same terms.

To beat them, it's simply not to borrow or repay at the fastest possible time to avoid letting them milk you for life over interest.

They are just legalized loan shark with Police and court as legalized money collector and gangster.

btw, I was from the banking and finance sector. If people knew what the terms and conditions meant, there would be a revolt the very next day. Even within the banks, you'll have a hard time finding someone who knows how things really work. Smart enough to get the job done, not smart enough to ask pressing questions.

No one seems to notice, no one seems to care. I shall deem that to be Singaporeans' acquiescence to the status quo. No protests mean...the bankers are right!

 

[jw5]

I'm doing the same as you and in addition, I fark FTs who call me on the phone and whenever possible (be it in a bank, restaurant, spa....), I will request to be served by a local. I will not go to restaurants if I know they are owned by FTs, esp PRCs. I have never eaten at any of those PRCs steamboat restaurants and I've never been to an Old Town coffeeshop.

My dad used to have arguments with my mum (staunch PAP supporter) over all those issues that you see in this forum. My mum also complained about increasing prices etc as well but she used to say that even if you vote for the oppostion, they will also also take the same pay and yet will do nothing or are powerless to do anything. Just look at the MPs of Hougang and Potong Pasir.

Not long ago when I called my mum, she mentioned to me something that my dad said to her before he passed away. He told her that its not about voting for the oppostion for the sake of it and cancelling out what the current government has done, its about having people to keep the goverment in check so that they don't go overboard and do whatever they pleases.

I think she gets the idea so I continue from there. I told her that when she votes, she needs to think of the future of my nephew and nieces (she dotes on them!). She can see how foreigners are flooding the place and people like me had to go abroard in search of a better living. I'm very worried about how tough the future can be for my nephew and nieces if it goes on like this.
I think she finally gets it.

Since you are working and living in China, how do you implement the "locals" policy?
Most of the people you are dealing with would be prcs anyway, do you mean that you implement this policy when you are in SG? How often is that?

I'm not so sure that boycotting the FT owned or FT run places is the answer for us. My personal policy is that if I'm treated well in a place and find good value in their products and services, I'll patronize. So for those steamboat places which treat the prcs like kings and locals like shit, no business from me.
People like us who are living or have lived away from SG should actually know what it's like to be a foreigner. In most cases, it's not every foreigner's fault as he is just trying to make a living. If there is overcrowding and anti social behaviour from the foreigner, it's the policies of the people who let them in and the disgusting individuals themselves who are at fault.

You dad had the right idea and absolutely hit the nail on the head. I agree with what he said completely, if only other Singaporeans especially the elderly could think that way. If one day the Pap becomes the opposition and the government at that time does not put the well being of the ordinary Singaporean as their priority, I might just become a pap supporter.

 

[jw5]

Why not you just trip them with your leg

I prefer to poke queue cutters with an umbrella.
There is no body contact that way.

 

[jw5]

The irony of it all, that for many years in the past; I have pointed out to all the blind lemmings about the danger we face depending on ONE person. They do not want to listen...

I think you do not realise or don't want to, with the recent floods problems. Miraculously it got solved, when LKY came out to talk; NPark is now checking this & that, so is NEA providing weather reports, PUB on the ball & so forth. Shouldn't these problems be solved by the Prime Minister of the country? We need a Lee Kuan Yew to set things right, to ministers who are made to be in charge of that ministries they manages & now had lost their spurs. Are we paying too much for incompetencies? We cannot control the elements, but we can make a difference for own lives, if we hand over daily our lives to all these expensive incompetent people; who needs a Lee Kuan Yew to set things right.

The danger is, we are too dependent on one man; how are these people going to respond to crisies like these, when the one man; in unable & unavailable?

See the danger SINgaporeans....

We are not really dependent on one man. That's a fallacy that many elderly singaporeans have.
Most of his good work, if any, was done in the past.
I really believe that if the opposition were to form a government, things will not get worse for SG. Perhaps it won't be much better and we will still be overcrowded with foreigners and the ministars will still have humongous pay, but I don't think things will get worse, which is what the pappies want us to think and which many singaporeans actually believe.
The problem with him is that he really thinks that he, his son and daughter in law are the top talents in SG. It's not as if he's every night going "hehehe, they are not that smart, but they still managed to get that position." I think he really believes that his family are the best. That actually makes him very difficult to deal with and perhaps the best solution is just to wait for mother nature to take its course.

 

[halsey02]

We are not really dependent on one man. That's a fallacy that many elderly singaporeans have.
Most of his good work, if any, was done in the past.
I really believe that if the opposition were to form a government, things will not get worse for SG. Perhaps it won't be much better and we will still be overcrowded with foreigners and the ministars will still have humongous pay, but I don't think things will get worse, which is what the pappies want us to think and which many singaporeans actually believe.
The problem with him is that he really thinks that he, his son and daughter in law are the top talents in SG. It's not as if he's every night going "hehehe, they are not that smart, but they still managed to get that position." I think he really believes that his family are the best. That actually makes him very difficult to deal with and perhaps the best solution is just to wait for mother nature to take its course.

His recent appearance highlighted my point that we are are, or should I say, they are dependant on one man, to make decisions, to give directions....to get things done right, to set things right, when it is not working..shouldn't that work be done by the Prime Minister of the country?...our lives is dependant on one man to make proper decisions & durections...we are heading for a 'brick wall' sometime in the future or sooner than we think....LKY will live forever??

 

[Logisex]

Since you are working and living in China, how do you implement the "locals" policy?
Most of the people you are dealing with would be prcs anyway, do you mean that you implement this policy when you are in SG? How often is that?

I'm not so sure that boycotting the FT owned or FT run places is the answer for us. My personal policy is that if I'm treated well in a place and find good value in their products and services, I'll patronize. So for those steamboat places which treat the prcs like kings and locals like shit, no business from me.
People like us who are living or have lived away from SG should actually know what it's like to be a foreigner. In most cases, it's not every foreigner's fault as he is just trying to make a living. If there is overcrowding and anti social behaviour from the foreigner, it's the policies of the people who let them in and the disgusting individuals themselves who are at fault.

You dad had the right idea and absolutely hit the nail on the head. I agree with what he said completely, if only other Singaporeans especially the elderly could think that way. If one day the Pap becomes the opposition and the government at that time does not put the well being of the ordinary Singaporean as their priority, I might just become a pap supporter.

Unless I've migrated and has no family members in Singapore, then I would want nothing to do with this country. There will be a day when my services are no longer required in China. Things change so fast so who knows when I'll end up. But as long as I'm holding a Singapore passport and still has feelings for this place, I should do whatever that is within my means for the good of this country in my remaining years. We knew Singapore wasn't like this and we knew what's gonna happen next so we should do whatever we can to avoid it.

Its just like global warming. We knew the earth/weather wasn't like this and we knew what's gonna happen next if we dun do anything about it. I can't join the scientists in their mega projects but I can do my part in reducing, recycling and reusing stuff whenever I can.

I can't protest on the streets but I can vote.
I can choose where I want to give my money to and who to serve me.
I have the right to tell people off incase they dun know what is socially unacceptable here.

I have nothing against foreigners. I'm against trash, the trash that they bring along with them, and their refusal to integrate. Why the fark should we be spending money and asking our locals to integrate with them? Its absurb! Foreigners like me are taxed very heavily in China and we have to find our own ways to integrate or fark off. PRCs dun look up to you unless you can show them you are of value to them or better than them. There are good PRCs and bad ones but unfortunately, we seems to be getting all the bad ones and the way I treat these assholes in China is the same as when I'm back home.

Coming to China has been an eye opener for me and it make me realised that Singaporeans have been too kind, too dumb and too timid.

I dun think my measures are extreme as I dun go around beating FTs up. I might be able to take actions once in a blue moon but at least I know I'm doing my part, doing the right thing and sending the message across.

It does not make much of a difference if I go to a spa and asked to be serve by a local masseurs or fark off if there isn't one. But if 50 out of 100customers do the same thing, it will make a difference.

 

[jw5]

His recent appearance highlighted my point that we are are, or should I say, they are dependant on one man, to make decisions, to give directions....to get things done right, to set things right, when it is not working..shouldn't that work be done by the Prime Minister of the country?...our lives is dependant on one man to make proper decisions & durections...we are heading for a 'brick wall' sometime in the future or sooner than we think....LKY will live forever??

Some of them think they are dependent, some of them are too scared not to depend, some of them simply don't have the intellect, some of them are simply bootlickers. I'm sure there are other categories.
But SG is not and we are not dependent.

 

[jw5]

I dun think my measures are extreme as I dun go around beating FTs up. I might be able to take actions once in a blue moon but at least I know I'm doing my part, doing the right thing and sending the message across.

It does not make much of a difference if I go to a spa and asked to be serve by a local masseurs or fark off if there isn't one. But if 50 out of 100customers do the same thing, it will make a difference.

Well, I can't disagree too much with what you said.
Only to emphasize that the bigger problem and troublemakers are the policymakers and the individual areshole foreigners, not all foreigners. I think you would agree with that as well.
You are right of course that one man own't make a difference, but 100 men or 1000 men doing the same thing and having the same attitude would.
The problem in SG is that people have become so selfish, self absorbed, inconsiderate and materialistic, that we have also become disunited and self serving.
As usual, I blame you-know-who.

 

[Received_by_Kings]

How many here actually bother to learn how the money system works? Considering that "money" is the backbone of pretty much everything, one would do well to read up on that. Sadly, when I tried to post clues regarding housing loans, no one responded.

When a person allows himself to be re-presented by a lawyer, MP, banker etc etc, he agrees that his re-presentative lives his life for him and makes all the decisions. Deference to authority is fatal.

I can only conclude that Singaporeans are satisfied with how things work. The unaware are unaware that they are unaware (of how the money system really works).

So how would knowledge of the money system make them any richer?

 

[Received_by_Kings]

Even within the banks, you'll have a hard time finding someone who knows how things really work. Smart enough to get the job done, not smart enough to ask pressing questions.

Even in schools of long ago an overwhelming majority of the teachers and headmasters take up silencing by caning those who ask too many questions especially those that they have no ability to answer, so how do you get the "good, pure and innocent" masses to think independently?

 

[darthboy]

We are in the same industry but too bad I dun know enuf of the above to PM you!

There are reasons why people dun read T&C:
1) They have no time or even if they have, they might not understand them.
2) Even if they have the time and understand the T&C, they dun have much of a choice......that is fore example unless you have the cash, or else you will need to get a mortgage loan and abide by the T&C (which is more or less the same among the banks).
3) There are exceptions as well but that is provided that you are a big MNC who has bargaining power, then perhaps you might get the bank to waive/amend a few clauses.
4) It is not practical for the banker to read/explain every clause in the T&C to the customer for every transaction. Customer do not have the time/ patiance/intelligence to listen/understand then or they simply dun give a damn. However, bankers do have the obligations to highlight key clauses to them.
5) Then again even if the banker wants to change a clause, he can only do so if it benefits the bank and as you know, the process is tedious and takes a long time (unless it post an immediate danger to the bank in terms of risk/complaince/bottomline).
6) If you pay to go to a doctor, you trust them and expect them to be an expert in their field unless you live in a village with only 1 doctor within a 5000miles range. The same goes with the banker but customers dun know that most bankers know just enuf to carry out their job, are driven by impossible targets and most of them dun read/understand the full T&C themselves.
7) Eveyone is owned by the bank. Even if you dun have any loans, you will probably have a savings account so like it or not, you abide by their rules. You do have a choice in choosing the banks though.
..................

On a personal level, the most important thing is not whether you know how money works but its about your relationship with your money. There are some people who thinks they make so little money each month so no point saving up or do any financial planning. On the other hand, there are some people who realised that they earn so little so they take great care of their money, are fully conscious of how money is spent and at the same time, find ways to make more.

For me, the day that I started to have an intimate relationship with my money is on the day that I break down my monthly salary into an hourly rate, minus off all necessary expenses and how must I'm left after that. It was a wake up call to me. I kept that deatailed calculations in my notebook and refer to it all the time. It motivates me to strive for my long term goal of being financially independent, to increase my current value and to curb my desires.

So now when I plan to buy something, say a Hi-Fi system, I will calculate how many hours I have to work at my current rate in order to buy that Hi-Fi vs the benefits I gather from it vs the other alternatives. I might just settle for my mp3 till I'm comfortable with parting my money.

This is not relevant to the topic so I'll stop here.

Governments should be like banks, who have independent regulators to keep them in check. The problem now is that we have none.

I *was* in that industry. WAS.

You have apparently made many suggestions on how one may manage money. Before we worry about money management, are you able to explain what is money?

Do you know what are the differences between
1) Good and lawful money
2) Private credit
3) MAS notes and coins

Friendly warning: your indemnification insurance carrier might be concerned and raise your premiums if you are unable to explain.

 

[Received_by_Kings]

No one seems to notice, no one seems to care. I shall deem that to be Singaporeans' acquiescence to the status quo. No protests mean...the bankers are right!

Of course. "Money talks", "money makes the world go around", and "cash is king"!! ~

"People should be oppressed" - Jackie Chan

 

[Received_by_Kings]

I *was* in that industry. WAS.

You have apparently made many suggestions on how one may manage money. Before we worry about money management, are you able to explain what is money?

Do you know what are the differences between
1) Good and lawful money
2) Private credit
3) MAS notes and coins

Friendly warning: your indemnification insurance carrier might be concerned and raise your premiums if you are unable to explain.

So someone who retires in a Swiss cottage wants to come out and be a teacher now.

Yawn.

 

[darthboy]

Even in schools of long ago an overwhelming majority of the teachers and headmasters take up silencing by caning those who ask too many questions especially those that they have no ability to answer, so how do you get the "good, pure and innocent" masses to think independently?

Lay off the TV. I've already done so for the past few years.

How can one claim to be held hostage by the government or bank, when it is the "money" problem that's holding him and his own mind hostage? Just find out what is money.

 

[darthboy]

care to contribute some of your insights since you are from within the finance sector, I am not from within but I know simply it's a "You lose, We win" when it come to the banking terms, if you not happy you can don't sign but all other banks have the same terms.

To beat them, it's simply not to borrow or repay at the fastest possible time to avoid letting them milk you for life over interest.

They are just legalized loan shark with Police and court as legalized money collector and gangster.

*was*. Was from the finance sector.

Why talk about the terms and conditions, when you have asked no questions about the original paperwork?

EDIT: I just realised I mentioned T&C in my previous posts. Let's just say most, if not all, customers made up their own assumptions about the T&C without reading them. The judge has to rule for the bank. The judge did nothing, the customer screwed himself.

The bank never said anything. The customers just made their own assumptions and hanged themselves. You, sir, have just testified against yourself with many assumptions. You have just declared defeat against yourself, without intervention from the bank. You just did all the work for the bank.

 

[Logisex]

Well, I can't disagree too much with what you said.
Only to emphasize that the bigger problem and troublemakers are the policymakers and the individual areshole foreigners, not all foreigners. I think you would agree with that as well.
You are right of course that one man own't make a difference, but 100 men or 1000 men doing the same thing and having the same attitude would.
The problem in SG is that people have become so selfish, self absorbed, inconsiderate and materialistic, that we have also become disunited and self serving.
As usual, I blame you-know-who.

The longer I live in China, the more I discover similarities between the PRCs and Singaporeans in terms of "selfish, self absorbed, inconsiderate, materialistic, disunited and self serving". Is this a Chinese thing?

Its very refreshing and enlightening to live/work with very bright/intelligent PRCs but it can be very depresssing/frustrating to be surrounded by assholes as well. It gets even more depressing when I read all these negative stuff about SIngapore in these forums. The daily world news are even worst, everyday talk about floods, droughts, earthquakes, nuclear wars, economic crisis and how evil/greedy people have become. It wasn't used to be like that.

Sometimes I feel I'm stuck between the devil and the deep blue sea. Will the day come when I'm no longer needed in China and I can't go back to my country where I will become a minority and had to beg for a job from an FT?

Nowadays I take comfort in reminding myself that nothing last forever. Not even my life and its really not a bad thing lying 6 foot down and never to be reborn again looking at how things are heading. The 2012 Armageddon might be a good thing afterall. Press the reset button and start all over again.....