MDA questions Seelan over Francis Seow video

[scroobal]

On a political level, I don't think SDP is a threat. Chee was certainly a threat in his first 3 years but they have neutralised him. Chee unfortunately has also crippled his political chances by some erroneous tactics and strategy.

Though Chee has certainly been persecuted, the SDP and its associates are actively seeking government intervention to create a profile and an awareness that they feel might work. I don't think you can call it persecution.

The Marxist Conspiracy affair of 1987 is clear case of persecution of the WP with the intention of crippling it. In 81, it won the Anson by-elections and in the 1984 GE, it held on to the seat. To make matters worse, Chiam also got voted in. In 87, they acted when they found out that a bright group of people including lawyers, a journalist and a Harvard grad was helping to publish the Hammer. They were all detained.

They did not relent until they made JBJ a bankrupt and held the CEC by the balls. They then went after Chee in SDP as Chiam was more squeaky clean than the PAP.

The action of Seelan and those in SDP and their associates thought brave are no threat politically. Thought they are strong minded individuals, they fall into the wider NGO and pressure group category of effecting societal change. Note that this group is now associated with impressionable young Malay boys.

If you disagree with a certain conditions in society and you actively break other laws to highlight your case and raise a profile, I am sure you agree that it is not persecution. Its closer to martyrdom.

I would like to see the PAP oppressive regime brought down and I would like to see more effective actions that goes towards that.

One thing you will notice that most of those persecuted by the PAP regime have one way or another belong to the SDP?

?

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

If you disagree with a certain conditions in society and you actively break other laws to highlight your case and raise a profile, I am sure you agree that it is not persecution.

What the Chees were doing was to show the oppressive laws at play here in 21st century Singapore. In that sense, it is correct that they were and possibly still are being persecuted.

If you look at the laws they broke, you can't argue against that. If you looked at laws from an impartial point of view then you are correct. But let's not fool ourselves. Most of the crimes attributed towards the Chees were definitely the result of oppressive laws.

What I think CSJ has realised in the past two years is that his previous methods were unproductive. He has since taken a more amiable approach although still willing to take them on face to face, he has chosen a different style which is good for APs on the whole.

 

[methink]

On a political level, I don't think SDP is a threat. Chee was certainly a threat in his first 3 years but they have neutralised him. Chee unfortunately has also crippled his political chances by some erroneous tactics and strategy.

I would like to see the PAP oppressive regime brought down and I would like to see more effective actions that goes towards that.

Yes it was sad to see the many mistakes in his early days. I would think the misinformation carried out by the 154th did him in. Dr Chee has been much maligned and smeared so as to neutralise him.

The fact that the pappies had not been able to completely overwhelm him is an indication of things to come. For one, the young are beginning to see thru the PAP's scared tactics. Two, the great influx of foreigners is a sign of panic. And it is not about to stop soon!

I too would like to see the PAP oppressive regime brought down. Dr Chee and associates have set the motion. They are here to stay. This movement will only grow in the years to come.

And this is what PAP is afraid of. But there is nothing the pappies can do about it. Try as they may, people are being enlightened and emboldened. Due no less to Dr Chee and his many campaigns. He is ahead of the times. His time will come soon. Real soon.

 

[scroobal]

Seeing Chee in his early years and his books' content there is a huge potential and it is wasted. HMae should try and get back to mainstream politics and take the stage. He is the only one that can match PAP hardcases.

He unfortunately is surrounded by very stoic but politically incapable people. Some of the old guards however are good.

The current program of civil disobedience is not getting the appropriate mileage.

Yes it was sad to see the many mistakes in his early days. I would think the misinformation carried out by the 154th did him in. Dr Chee has been much maligned and smeared so as to neutralise him.

The fact that the pappies had not been able to completely overwhelm him is an indication of things to come. For one, the young are beginning to see thru the PAP's scared tactics. Two, the great influx of foreigners is a sign of panic. And it is not about to stop soon!

I too would like to see the PAP oppressive regime brought down. Dr Chee and associates have set the motion. They are here to stay. This movement will only grow in the years to come.

And this is what PAP is afraid of. But there is nothing the pappies can do about it. Try as they may, people are being enlightened and emboldened. Due no less to Dr Chee and his many campaigns. He is ahead of the times. His time will come soon. Real soon.

 

[scroobal]

Agree with your last para in total. As to the others;

Raising the profile of Singapore's oppressive laws are certainly good. The Speaker's corner and the further relaxation of conditions to even allow a protest and assembly has to be credited to Chee and his band of supporters. None of the other critics or any member of the an opposition party can claim credit.

Intentionally breaking a law to see prosecution and seek a stage to voice your concerns and to seek wider justice is noble act. It is not however persecution. It is called Martyrdom.

Seeking permits and approvals to goad this highly oppressive govt with intentionally sensitive subject content to evoke a wholly expected unfavourable response is par for the course for civil agitation and is a well established acceptable form of dissent. It is however not persecution.

Persecution is when an NUS student intends to run for Student leader and the parents are paid a visit by ISD while the student is attending lessons and given a 3 hour lecture on why their son needs to "concentrate on his studies". Scaring the shit out of the parents. .

Persecution is when a lawyer indicates his intention to stand for elections and the following week, a full fledged tax audit notification comes in the mail.

Persecution is not granting citizenship to someone born and raised in Singapore because his relative has moved in opposition circles.

Persecution is when someone who has all qualifications is not given a place in a tertiary educaton, a queue number for HDB, the pemit to do business, a permit to run a stall in a wet market.

These are not imaginary cases. These are real cases. These did not occur during world war two. These have occurred during the course of PAP's rule over 50 years and continues to occur.

If you look at the history of the PAP since 1959, they have gone for people who are in position of influence or substance. It started with Operations Coldstore and ended with Catherine Lim. These are intellectuals. People of substance.

ISD would have no time for Seelan, the F4, or any other person in that group. Their concern Chee and his sister.

If you disagree with a certain conditions in society and you actively break other laws to highlight your case and raise a profile, I am sure you agree that it is not persecution.

What the Chees were doing was to show the oppressive laws at play here in 21st century Singapore. In that sense, it is correct that they were and possibly still are being persecuted.

If you look at the laws they broke, you can't argue against that. If you looked at laws from an impartial point of view then you are correct. But let's not fool ourselves. Most of the crimes attributed towards the Chees were definitely the result of oppressive laws.

What I think CSJ has realised in the past two years is that his previous methods were unproductive. He has since taken a more amiable approach although still willing to take them on face to face, he has chosen a different style which is good for APs on the whole.

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Agree with your last para in total. As to the others;

Intentionally breaking a law to see prosecution and seek a stage to voice your concerns and to seek wider justice is noble act. It is not however persecution. It is called Martyrdom.

There have been numerous cases of groups congregating without being charged in court. The difference was that SDP was involved. A peaceful political party that to date has never been charged in court for violence or destruction of property.

You seem to agree to the draconian laws put up by the PAP to be put to use at their whim and fancy.

That CSJ was even prevented from visiting his dying father-in-law in Taiwan is another case of persecution.

Seeking permits and approvals to goad this highly oppressive govt with intentionally sensitive subject content to evoke a wholly expected unfavourable response is par for the course for civil agitation and is a well established acceptable form of dissent. It is however not persecution.

How is providing alternative views on socio-economics a sensitive subject?
How is providing alternative views on political will a sensitive subject?
How is providing alternative views on democracy a sensitive subject?
We are a democratic country as espoused by the previously beloved PAP.

It is persecution of the lowest order!

Persecution is when an NUS student intends to run for Student leader and the parents are paid a visit by ISD while the student is attending lessons and given a 3 hour lecture on why their son needs to "concentrate on his studies". Scaring the shit out of the parents. .

Persecution is when a lawyer indicates his intention to stand for elections and the following week, a full fledged tax audit notification comes in the mail.

Persecution is not granting citizenship to someone born and raised in Singapore because his relative has moved in opposition circles.

Persecution is when someone who has all qualifications is not given a place in a tertiary educaton, a queue number for HDB, the pemit to do business, a permit to run a stall in a wet market.

These are not imaginary cases. These are real cases. These did not occur during world war two. These have occurred during the course of PAP's rule over 50 years and continues to occur.

If you look at the history of the PAP since 1959, they have gone for people who are in position of influence or substance. It started with Operations Coldstore and ended with Catherine Lim. These are intellectuals. People of substance.

ISD would have no time for Seelan, the F4, or any other person in that group. Their concern Chee and his sister.

[/QUOTE]

We seem to disagree on semantics. All are cases of persecution by the PAP.

Chee would have done well by being more humourous. I have spoken to him and of course he is a learned man with definite and upright morals. He is very acceptable to criticism and that to me, showed his true quality as a person and as someone wanting to serve the people.

The PAP has to go. They have been stifling ideas and ideals for far too long.
Even ideas and ideals that come from outside of the PAP is shunned or worse yet 'stolen' or borrowed and made their own.

We are talking about ideas and ideals that would have made our country many times better today than the cesspool of problems it is today that have been created by a political party that has so few economists in their wings that it baffles imagination how they have survived so long.

But then we soon realise that they are a fascist political party and hiring generals and admirals instead of economists and sociologists is what they are made of.

 

[scroobal]

I am aware of the double standards. The fact that he can commandeer an airline from a public listed company to fly his wife back despite commercial medivac facilities with first class medical available tells it all. SGX never even blinked. He paying for it is besides the point. This is a tyrant and only an imbecile will think otherwise.

Nothing to do with semantics. We both the know, SDP wanted to be arrested. If you think that is not the case, then we are wasting out time moving along this line. Sometimes martyrdom works but in this case, old man has offered his navy base, terror barracks to the US. The forrmer MI6 chief is an advisor. Its a bloody waste of time.

Except for Chee the rest of them are not intellectuals or even having a brain is questionable let alone political acumen. Even ISD is not involved. All we see is Deep Singh and his plainclothes men some of whom are NS men. Its the same story with little result.

Calling it persecution is certainly not correct. Nelson Mandela, Chia Thye Poh etc are different kettle of fish. There has never been a single world leader that intentionally wanted to be arrested. It is however very popular with hollywood celebrities to get arrested taking part in a pet protest. You considered chic and fashionable as you are "bad". Why you think it appeals to younsters. You got to remove the wheat from the chaff less you do a disservice to the people that were detained without trial or actually have been prosecuted.

There have been numerous cases of groups congregating without being charged in court. The difference was that SDP was involved. A peaceful political party that to date has never been charged in court for violence or destruction of property.

You seem to agree to the draconian laws put up by the PAP to be put to use at their whim and fancy.

That CSJ was even prevented from visiting his dying father-in-law in Taiwan is another case of persecution.




How is providing alternative views on socio-economics a sensitive subject?
How is providing alternative views on political will a sensitive subject?
How is providing alternative views on democracy a sensitive subject?
We are a democratic country as espoused by the previously beloved PAP.

It is persecution of the lowest order!

We seem to disagree on semantics. All are cases of persecution by the PAP.

Chee would have done well by being more humourous. I have spoken to him and of course he is a learned man with definite and upright morals. He is very acceptable to criticism and that to me, showed his true quality as a person and as someone wanting to serve the people.

The PAP has to go. They have been stifling ideas and ideals for far too long.
Even ideas and ideals that come from outside of the PAP is shunned or worse yet 'stolen' or borrowed and made their own.

We are talking about ideas and ideals that would have made our country many times better today than the cesspool of problems it is today that have been created by a political party that has so few economists in their wings that it baffles imagination how they have survived so long.

But then we soon realise that they are a fascist political party and hiring generals and admirals instead of economists and sociologists is what they are made of.[/QUOTE]