MBT on HDB flats: A year in Review

[SneeringTree]

Things/Quotes that make you go "Mmmmmmm...."

'The fact is that the HDB market is a large market...with prices going up or down by 1 per cent, I would term it a stable market, not a rising market.' 9 July 2009

'What actually happens a few years down the road is unknown. Also, demand is not constant - it varies from year to year, depending on economic and other factors,' 24 November 2009.

'So, when people say prices have moved faster than incomes, it's not true...Realistically, in the last 10 years, prices have moved in tandem with income - except the last year. And this was an anomaly,' he says. 7 April 2010.

'Just last year, we had COVs which were either zero or negative, which reflected the market situation at that time. I dare say that as the market cools down and as supply catches up with demand, the COV prices will start to moderate as well.' 27 April 2010.

'I think at this point in time, there's still an imbalance,' 26 July 2010

 

[halsey02]

my flat at Kim Keat..is a palace...hmmm

 

[radon39]

Seems to me like damage control to make up for his asswipe mistakes and win voters

 

[halsey02]

Seems to me like damage control to make up for his asswipe mistakes and win voters

All they need is, when the crunch comes ( not koko crunch), they just play their 'joker card' as in the last election over the temples issue. Their one & only 'joker card'...and how long can they draw that card??? we really do not know!..not God knows!

 

[Brightkid]

All they need is, when the crunch comes ( not koko crunch), they just play their 'joker card' as in the last election over the temples issue. Their one & only 'joker card'...and how long can they draw that card??? we really do not know!..not God knows!

That Joker Card used was for Chinese temple right ?

This coming election, they will use the Indian Temple, which already started with the investigation going on.

Next will be churches, mosques, etc, etc.... That Joker card will last them a life time, at least throughout OUR lifetime.

It is for us to take action now......or never.

 

[palden]

Prices doubled, he pay doubled, but my pay did not doubled lei

 

[cooleo]

"Imbalance" to sum up his year of incompetency and artificial overvaluation of flats? How about I "microburst" his arsehole?! :oIo:

 

[longbow]

Prices doubled, he pay doubled, but my pay did not doubled lei

But new flats not doubled.

MOST Singaporeans buy new flats directly from HDB and with the grants and easy financing and such, HDB prices are reasonable. Must also take in view that we are a crowded small city nation - so cannot compare to Perth where $250K can buy you a landed. Better to compare with major cities like NY, HK, Tokyo, SF, etc

I agree that resale flats have gone up in prices. But behind every resale flat sold is a Singaporean pocketing the profits. So fair right? Well fair to the Singaporean selling but some argue not fair to the Singaporean buying.

Lets see who buys resale HDBs? PRs and Singaporeans who cannot wait for new flats.

So the problem for some Singaporeans is have to buy from expensive resale market because new flats take too long.

Solution: ramp up even more new flats. Something they are doing but apparently not fast enough.

 

[Subok]

......... But behind every resale flat sold is a Singaporean pocketing the profits. So fair right?
.

Pocketing the profits?

Brother can you come out with some facts? From now onwards whoever sold or sell HDB flats with profit will have to COUGH back the profit for the next unit they going to purchase regardless of 1st or 2nd hand!

Let me work out some numbers for you.

Sold flat for 200K profit

100K reserved by government for next purchase
40K resale flat levy
10K conveyances fee, lawyer, commission etc etc

balance? 50K

50K if buy new flat renovation how? if buy 2nd hand flat COV how?

Bro, do your sum before you talk!

 

[Subok]

Solution: ramp up even more new flats. Something they are doing but apparently not fast enough.

HDB already knew this forehand! They intentionally slows down the building of HDB flats. They already know years in advance the number of new migrants, PRs, newly weds etc etc. They are artificially pushing the price upwards bu limiting supply cause they fear the "ghost" of 8 years ago of oversupply will come back haunt them. So they better play safe than "sorry" for their own BONUSES at the expense of the CITIZENS hungry, yielding for a roof over their heads.

then they will proudly say they "subsidize" the price of new flats to the Citizens. At what price? A market value that they had artificially engineered then pluck any figures to show they had subsidized the citizens.

Eg. if market value of a 4 room flat now is 350K, new HDB launched 4 room they will sell @ 300K then HDB will blow trumpets that they had "subsidized" the price of new flats! Is it subsidization or simply discounted price?

It was roughly estimated that a single HDB unit will cost a developer 80K to build. Selling @ 300K, HDB is profiting from the people. NVM if these profit will be used to build MORE flats (which they are slow to do) NVM if these profit will be use for concessionary HDB loans to citizens (The new 50% profit reserved price effectively eliminate a large pool of citizens qualifying for the loan) BUT none of the above are carried out in full.

people, judgment time is coming around the corner, please give the ruling elites a sentence they will never ever forget! THE EXIT DOOR of the Parliament House.

"We have lost sight of the joy and excitement of public service, helping our fellow men. The joy and excitement of seeking and understanding of the joy of the miracle of the living the duty and the grandeur. We have lost taste for heroic action in the service of our people." - David Marshall



With the depart of David Marshall, JBJ, who else? Who else then is the scorn of LKY, his nemesis? CSJ is almost bludgeoned into political through the use of Animal farm styled judiciary system. With "BANKRUPTS" written over CSJ head, he is effectively ineligible to take part in any political actions, with "BANKRUPTS" written over CSJ head, normal aunties and uncles automatically write latter off as "scums" "useless" "criminals" etc etc would not vote him or his party.

Who else then will be LKY nemesis?

Will Goh Chok Tong really lead a renegade team to run against the whites as rumored on the ground? Is there a splinter group in the ruling elites? one that perhaps still have the passion to serve the people? I dare not think.....

for now I hope against all hopelessness, there this era of oppression through financial means by the ruling elites will end soon... lets hold virtual vigil, virtual peace mass, virtual prayers, virtual.. etc etc (anything bodily, containable, countable will be amount to illegal gathering) that Singapore, she would be set free and her citizens atlas will breath democracy. .... I hope....

 

[Teo Kok Eng]

It is time for Mah to retire.

 

[longbow]

Brother, charity begins at home. The fella would not sell unless he sees profits or there is some gain to him. Don't you think so? Sometimes no need to see small picture - just look at big pix. No one will sell unless he comes out ahead.

Maybe he sold and upgraded to pte condo. No renovation, no HDB levy - that is already $90K of pure profit into pockets. Then the $100K reserved does no apply because no longer buying HDB. In effect he is using his $200K profit as downpayment on pte property. Then there is the original investment that he gets back.

Hmmm perhaps that is why HDB upgraders are driving up condo prices.

And even if he bought another HDB - lets say his kids all independent and couple want to downgrade. New 3 room can be had for $150K. OK based on your $200K profit + initial price of original flat that he got back after paying off loan -$50K, this guy has $250K, buy $150K flat and still has $100K left.

Are your figures correct?

Pocketing the profits?

Brother can you come out with some facts? From now onwards whoever sold or sell HDB flats with profit will have to COUGH back the profit for the next unit they going to purchase regardless of 1st or 2nd hand!

Let me work out some numbers for you.

Sold flat for 200K profit

100K reserved by government for next purchase
40K resale flat levy
10K conveyances fee, lawyer, commission etc etc

balance? 50K

50K if buy new flat renovation how? if buy 2nd hand flat COV how?

Bro, do your sum before you talk!

 

[longbow]

It was roughly estimated that a single HDB unit will cost a developer 80K to build. Selling @ 300K, HDB is profiting from the people. ....

This fact is WRONG!! Pse check this link. Basically contains all the tender prices for recent HDB BTO flats. Some of them cost $160K to build!! BTW these are public tenders so no nonsense. Furthermore many of the contractors underbid or have tiny margins to try and get that HDB seal of approval the the require G rating to allow them to get into big leagues to tender for larger Gov projects.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Build-To-Order_(HDB)

Not trying to support HDB but as far as construction costs, these are the facts.

 

[longbow]

I think Gov's greatest fear is that Singaporeans come to them for $$ in their old age. So they do not want some to sell their house, cream off the profits for a nice holiday, then go borrow another $200K for 30 years from HDB.

10 years down the road they will have problems with loans and they have no equity left in their new house.

Gov want people to have that equity in their house and use that equity to finance their old age.

 

[sleaguepunter]

This fact is WRONG!! Pse check this link. Basically contains all the tender prices for recent HDB BTO flats. Some of them cost $160K to build!! BTW these are public tenders so no nonsense. Furthermore many of the contractors underbid or have tiny margins to try and get that HDB seal of approval the the require G rating to allow them to get into big leagues to tender for larger Gov projects.

Mr Longbow, do u know how much a burmese construction worker cost a day? Only $20 a day, add in accommdation and worker levy, still cost the contractors less than $1000 a month per worker. Then u add in the "commission" from what burmese paid to come to singapore, the cost of a burmese worker is dirt cheap. With the labour overhead kept low, all the contractor have to make sure he/she do their sums right on material cost and pray for good weather all round to make the deadline.

 

[SIFU]

new pap dog detected

 

[Cuntamania]

Soon they'll going to have COE for purchase flats!

 

[longbow]

This fact is WRONG!! Pse check this link. Basically contains all the tender prices for recent HDB BTO flats. Some of them cost $160K to build!! BTW these are public tenders so no nonsense. Furthermore many of the contractors underbid or have tiny margins to try and get that HDB seal of approval the the require G rating to allow them to get into big leagues to tender for larger Gov projects.

Mr Longbow, do u know how much a burmese construction worker cost a day? Only $20 a day, add in accommdation and worker levy, still cost the contractors less than $1000 a month per worker. Then u add in the "commission" from what burmese paid to come to singapore, the cost of a burmese worker is dirt cheap. With the labour overhead kept low, all the contractor have to make sure he/she do their sums right on material cost and pray for good weather all round to make the deadline.

Do not understand what a Burmese worker has to do with cost of build flat.

If the main con can win the tender and still make lots of money than good for the main con right? Nothing to do with what it cost HDB to build a flat. And I used to do tendering for HDB projects. The competition is really tough and many underbid just to be in the race. There really is little room for large margins. A few years back a couple of contractors in Marine Parade underbid so much that they went bust and HDB had to retender and there was delay.

Unless of course if you supply unique items where there are few competitiors. In those cases you may be invited to help write the tender specs and there maybe opportunity to write it such that it makes it tough for competitors to fight.

But in construction many G6/7/8 grade contractors and they all have access to the same cheap Burmese worker so margins are very tight.

You may even find some Main Cons that are in between projects and to keep their workforce paid they will underbid to win an HDB contract - lose a little $$ so that they still maintain that capability and can be in the bidding game for larger projects when they turn up

If you can do HDB job you can do schools, markets, shophouses, HDB upgrading so that is aim of many contractors.

In short the tender price is a good indication of how much it cost to build a flat.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Do not understand what a Burmese worker has to do with cost of build flat.

so u mean all main con complete their project using family members as construction workers? so how can the wage of a burmese/PRC/Blangla have nothing to do with cost?

Sure, every construction companies have the same access to low wage foreign workers so every one of you benefit from a low wage bill. Of course only the Boss or HR Manager receive the kickbacks for employing foreign workers, so that didnt tickle down to other management level ppl.

If the margin is as low as u proclaim, then why there are suddenly so many construction firms from china operating in spore? Are PRC construction companies more efficient and effective than local firms?

Just looking at those LUP projects where PAP announce it cost millions to make lifts stop at every level. I know from past experience it cost less than US$70K to buy and install a Fujitech Passenger Lift that was made in Penang. If it cost ard S$110K to buy a lift which include installation, so that would mean it cost S$1.5-2m just to build a lift shaft? The metal rods in the concrete make of gold?

 

[Received_by_Kings]

my flat at Kim Keat..is a palace...hmmm

The late Adrian Lim in his excellent ACS-educated English said of his prime land sitting Toa Payoh housing project that "a man's home is his castle", but I think you've easily rivalled him now.

Allow everyone to congratulate you both promising young princes for the sandcastles-in-the-air spectacular upgrade.