MBT challenge GMS: u wanto challeng me on HDB? BRING IT ON!

[Tristan]

Singapore is the easiest place to succeed in doing business, you can't even grow your his small computer shop for 15 yrs, you want to teach MBT what to about economy?

Like a kindergarten kid teaching his grandma how to fark!

 

[cass888]

What Singaporeans want is an appreciating asset, affordable entry price for new homeowners, short waiting periods. HDB should set goal of ability to get flat within 3 years. So maybe they should build a few blocks that are not BTO.

What Singaporeans want is to be able to buy that 5 room flat for $50k but be able to sell it for $600k 5 years later. Unlike Generalissimo (minus 10 ranks) Goh Meng Seng, Mah Bow Tan knows there are more people who want to sell their flats for $600k than there are people who want to buy them for $50k. Any politician will tell you that you choose the option with more votes.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

GMS,

As I said before, you cannot cure an ailment (property bubble) by applying a bandage (deleting the HDB subsidy) that does nothing to address the underlying cause (govt policy relating to demand/supply control & immigration).

What you will end up doing is merely shift demand towards lower end housing -- precisely where you DON'T want the price to increase! You will not solve the housing bubble because the real policies doing the real damage are still there.

My system will NOT collapse the entire HDB market, least private prop market. New HDB market is totally different from HDB resale and private property market.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Like a kindergarten kid teaching his grandma how to fark!

If you take away a lollipop from a kindergarten kid, the kid will cry.

GMS will say take away the lollipop from the kid, it will benefit him.

Later when the kid grow up and don't vote for GMS, GMS will say that his picture with Grace Fu is the cause.

Go figure. I haven't figured this one out yet. :(:(

 

[silverfox@]

My system will NOT collapse the entire HDB market, least private prop market. New HDB market is totally different from HDB resale and private property market.

Higher grants is just like the dog chasing after its own tail. The more grant you give, the higher the price of the resale flats will be. It is simple economics. More money pumped in, the higher the demand and the higher the price will be. There is no mystery about that. The worse part is that you are encouraging many youngsters to consume more than they can afford.

Goh Meng Seng

If you are going to challenge MBT in his ward, focus the main core subject which is HDB flat to him from day 1 until the end of election.

Highlight all the problems from why HDB flat prices have increased so much and allowed to be increased to such a stage.

Do not do the suicidal move in suggesting the removal of GRANTS, because that is not going to aid you in winning more people over to you.

Focus on these issues.

-The ease of subletting and tenancy of HDB flats to foreigners. This will stir up emotions of Singaporeans who will be the ones who can place a vote.

-Foreigners who applied for PRs and after getting a flat, profit from it and ditch the PR status. Bearing in mind, HDB flats are meant for the people of Singapore.

-Do not use statistics given by the media to prove your point. Use the SPH classifieds and call up the housing agents who are selling HDB flats and prove to MBT that prices of many of the HDB flats are still not going down despite the papers painting a picture that prices are slowly stabilising which in actual fact not so.

-Valuers of HDB flats are valuing HDB flats based on past transactions. So if transactions are still on going, valuations will never come down, Valuations don't come down, prices will not come down and people will still be asking for rocket prices.

The points I listed will stir public emotions towards your corner. But if you are going to talk about the higher the grant is given, and prices of flats will still keep going up, I can tell you 99% of people will not be able to understand what you are talking about.

I think you need to understand what the people on the ground are feeling right now.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Focus on these issues.

-The ease of subletting and tenancy of HDB flats to foreigners. This will stir up emotions of Singaporeans who will be the ones who can place a vote.

-Foreigners who applied for PRs and after getting a flat, profit from it and ditch the PR status. Bearing in mind, HDB flats are meant for the people of Singapore. .

These points are very good.

It would be in the entire oppositions' interest to focus on them, instead of going after obscure points that no one will understand.

 

[silverfox@]

These points are very good.

It would be in the entire oppositions' interest to focus on them, instead of going after obscure points that no one will understand.

I think it was in year 07,08 when HDB changed some rules to allow people to rent out their HDB flats easier than in the past. The writings were then on the wall. PAP govt were prepared for influx of foreigners but know that there are not enough rental housing to go around, so they eased the rules to facilitate this policy of allowing rental, producing great tenancy yield for HDB owners which translate to great demand. Suddenly those who got their flats enbloc went right in to HDB because it has great tenancy yield.

The root starts from here.

Foreigners are here to work and the companies should find lodging for them in pte properties like apts or condos. Not free fall policies allowing them to flow over to HDB estates. It's already a mistake and this area should definitely be rectified. Imagine 8 foreigners with work permit staying in a 5rm flat paying rental of $2500 per month when normally if they rent a condo, only allows a max of 4 and they have to probably pay higher to rent a condo.

This allows the lower end of the foreigners to make use of cheap rental and allows them to remit more money back home. Does this benefit Singapore?

Since this problem cannot be eradicated immediately, will the govt increase property tax for those who rent their flats out. HDB flats should be a home for people in Singapore. Flat owners want to see capital appreciation for their flats, not a problem. But rental appreciation should be curbed and the only way is to either regulate it tighter, back like the old times or increase property tax making it not cost worthy for HDB flat owners to rent it out for profit. The term I use is RENT it for PROFIT. Rental of HDB flats should never be made for profit.

Property Tax rebates for HDB owners who rent out to Singaporeans.
Property Tax increased for HDB owners who rent out to Foreigners.


This is 1 area which can be looked into. Of course during a rally, the main points is to hoot why HDB flats can allow up to 8 foreigners staying in a rental unit. It should be brought down to 4 as this figure would not bring any discomfort to neighbours nor the estate neighbourhood. 8 will. (Unless proof of family members, blood relations staying in a single flat) This figure will slowly relate to lower tenancy rates because not cost effective for foreigners anymore. Once this emotion card is played, Singaporeans who listen will sway towards the opposition side.

Penalties for those who broke the HDB tenancy rules are harsh but never really been enforced. Just check the figures on how many people break the rules vs how many of them were heavily fined or even had their flats confiscated. Less than 10 had their flats confiscated even though they broke the rules. Bearing in mind, these people who knowingly do this are not ignorant or uneducated. They are educated people who purposely flout the rules for their benefits and the fines meted out is pathetic.

Penalties for these should be treated in the same manner as tax evasion. Cheats, con-men.

Ultimately, boils down to 1 thing, HDB bo chup (cannot be bothered), HDB bo yong (useless). There are many people doing all these HDB flat rentals illegally and no one is doing anything.

Eventually, PAP will still win this election, but the percentage of the win is very important. By giving it a lower mandate means a loss for them. That would shatter their confidence and work harder for us because success is no guarantee for them already.

 

[zhihau]

Foreigners are here to work and the companies should find lodging for them in pte properties like apts or condos. Not free fall policies allowing them to flow over to HDB estates. It's already a mistake and this area should definitely be rectified. Imagine 8 foreigners with work permit staying in a 5rm flat paying rental of $2500 per month when normally if they rent a condo, only allows a max of 4 and they have to probably pay higher to rent a condo.

HDB should really go humtum those PRs who buy resale flats only to sub-let or rent out to the foreigners

 

[silverfox@]

HDB should really go humtum those PRs who buy resale flats only to sub-let or rent out to the foreigners

Just this issue alone can stir the foreigner vs singaporean emotions run high during election, why go and talk about Grants?

99% of voters knows nuts about economics. You can spend 5 hours telling them about how grants will push up HDB price and they will still not be able to understand a single word.

 

[longbow]

All properties prices are related. You do not make sense.

Ignoring the super high end market, property prices are related because they provide the basic shelter. Just like cars in Singapore. If you ignore the Porsche and Rolls Royces but look at cars whose main function is to provide essential transportation (Toyota, Honda, Hyundai to even entry model Mercedes and BMWs) you can see that prices are related.

If Singapore gov were to lift all taxes on cars and you can get a new Toyota Camry for $35K what do you think will happen to the resale price of Toyota that you just purchased for $120K? At the other end, when gov reduce COE and COE rises, used Camrys will be worth much more. So yes pricing HDB at market price and using grants to subsidize the poorer folks will push up prices BUT you alternative will reduce the asset and bankrupt many.

Same too, if I just paid $300K for a 4 room flat and HDB offers new units for $80K what do you think will happen to my flat? What do you think happens to someone who is hoping to sell his resale flat for $400K and upgrade to small pte condo for $700K? Now his flat is only worth $200K because you can get a new one for $80K (the $120K is the price of having to wait 4 years for a flat + 5 year restriction) - that pte condo price will have to adjust downwards.

Lastly, properties, for many are their largest asset. Why risk that on some unproven economic theory of yours. The price is too high for many and you have no skin the the game.

My system will NOT collapse the entire HDB market, least private prop market. New HDB market is totally different from HDB resale and private property market.

Higher grants is just like the dog chasing after its own tail. The more grant you give, the higher the price of the resale flats will be. It is simple economics. More money pumped in, the higher the demand and the higher the price will be. There is no mystery about that. The worse part is that you are encouraging many youngsters to consume more than they can afford.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[longbow]

I Agree 100%. But restricting and enforcing number of people living in the flat, it will increase rentals (good for many Singaporeans that rent out rooms) and improve the living env.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

GMS could not even convince opposition supporters.

What more the swing votes & the middle ground?

GMS is threading on thin ice here. Already told him to zip his mouth about removing grant, he still wants to defend it.

 

[GoldenDragon]

GMS could not even convince opposition supporters.

What more the swing votes & the middle ground?

GMS is threading on thin ice here. Already told him to zip his mouth about removing grant, he still wants to defend it.

If cannot convince, still ok. Then you must confuse them. If can't convince, can't confuse, there is only one road - c lor ceek teow.

 

[yellow_people]

GMS wants to create a system that will collapse the entire HDB and private prop market.

The banks will collapse as well. If his hare-brained scheme is implemented, the HDB and private flats will now be worth a fraction of the of the mortgage the home owners, who do not qualify for HDB loan, had taken out the last few years in the property bubble.

Home owners will be looking for a way out of their obligations with their home loan now under water, whilst nervous banks will be looking for the slightest excuse to make debtors pay up the difference or demand additonal collateral.