Master stroke by WP chief Mr Low , well done !

[Man in the streets]

At the end of the debate, you know as usual, the votes count.
Mr Low asked for a division was a master stroke.

PAP knew they will get the papers endorsed but Mr low needs to show it to the public how parliament is run.

Consider this, 77 PAP MPs think the same , did we see the 77 debated the papers?

Worst of all, it took the so-called PM to spend 90 minutes to say his piece.

lets put it straight, ground sentiment believes that a good PM would only spend 30 minutes to get the message across but the problem is the PM is repeating the same story you know, singaporean first, quality life, better future except something new---more FTs coming your way !

Dont just talk and talk, like cock and bull story, just do it, action speaks louder than words and so what if you give melancholic speech.
Sadness dont solve problems ! But after his speech , he sat on the bench staring at Teo speaking, he crossed his legs and he was himself again.

In fact, look around us, sinkapore is 10 years behind time ! The supermarket, the road, the aisle , the gangway, the pavement, there are not ready for huge population.
You cannot compare other countries because they made mistakes , and why should singapore follows ?

PAP PM should now work on the ground and stop repeating the same story, He has got 3 years to prove his competency ! Show people he is a working man, and not choked with sadness while giving speech, because young voters dont buy expensive sadness anymore, they want real ground action.

But let me tell you, 3 years later come next GE, the same story surfaces again, the MRT , the traffic, everywhere still be very crowded.......the fairy tale continues....

The beauty is the next GE, we hope to see more PAP GRCs toppled and ministers becoming free spirits like george and then they start speaking up for the voters too late.

The next GE will be a serious one, one more time of same story will see AMK GRC falls under the hammer !

Wither singapore ?

 

[Dreamer1]

It is obvious that the entire PAP scholars are NO match of Low T K,honour graduate from University of Hard Knock,PM Lee better looks for 诸葛亮,I don't know whether PM Lee knows where to find him,hahaha
三国演义经典故事·三顾茅庐（下）_生活_中国网络电视台
► 18:51

bugu.cntv.cn/.../100314.s...3 Aug 2010 - 19 min
本期节目继续讲述刘备三顾茅庐的经典故事。第二次前去拜访的刘备见到了诸葛亮的 弟弟 ...

 

[batman1]

PAP MPs had life too easy and cushy,they don't know what is real life in the outside world ,that's why most of them they can only work in a GLC.

 

[Fook Seng]

This parliament debate on the White Paper although destined, from the start, for a fateful ending achieved two things.

It told of the futility of resisting a govt sponsored policy with a minority representation in parliament. It taught opposition supporters the need to be more tactical in getting more opposition members into parliament.

The second realization was that putting up an alternative policy in parliament immediately became target practice for the ruling party when the representation gap was as wide as 10:1. Albeit the challenger lived to fight another day with sympathy votes going their way in the next election.

The challenger should of course continue to challenge whenever the interest of the common Singaporean is at stake. But as can be seen, challenging in parliament is not enough. The same message must be sounded from many other angles - in public fora, on on-line blogs, party newsletters and handouts, YouTube videos, social media channels like Facebook accounts, web pages and interviews. The full arsenal of pr tools and channels should be engaged, leaving no stones unturned.

As can be seen the present government is a total writeoff. Any lingering doubt that they can place the people's interest ahead of party interest can be given to the wind.

The effort to bring in good people capable of forming the next government must proceed with immediate haste. We can plan but things seldom go according to plan especially when human emotion becomes the main driving force. We must be ready to stand up and be counted when the time arrived, late or too early.

 

[TracyTan866]

This parliament debate on the White Paper although destined, from the start, for a fateful ending achieved two things.

It told of the futility of resisting a govt sponsored policy with a minority representation in parliament. It taught opposition supporters the need to be more tactical in getting more opposition members into parliament.

The second realization was that putting up an alternative policy in parliament immediately became target practice for the ruling party when the representation gap was as wide as 10:1. Albeit the challenger lived to fight another day with sympathy votes going their way in the next election.

The challenger should of course continue to challenge whenever the interest of the common Singaporean is at stake. But as can be seen, challenging in parliament is not enough. The same message must be sounded from many other angles - in public fora, on on-line blogs, party newsletters and handouts, YouTube videos, social media channels like Facebook accounts, web pages and interviews. The full arsenal of pr tools and channels should be engaged, leaving no stones unturned.

As can be seen the present government is a total writeoff. Any lingering doubt that they can place the people's interest ahead of party interest can be given to the wind.

The effort to bring in good people capable of forming the next government must proceed with immediate haste. We can plan but things seldom go according to plan especially when human emotion becomes the main driving force. We must be ready to stand up and be counted when the time arrived, late or too early.

Agree that the pap is a write off..Singaporeans must take the bitter pill now...kick out the pap before it causes more damage.

LTK, SL and the WP MPs have done exceptionally well at the White Paper discussions

 

[jw5]

This parliament debate on the White Paper although destined, from the start, for a fateful ending achieved two things.

It told of the futility of resisting a govt sponsored policy with a minority representation in parliament. It taught opposition supporters the need to be more tactical in getting more opposition members into parliament.

The second realization was that putting up an alternative policy in parliament immediately became target practice for the ruling party when the representation gap was as wide as 10:1. Albeit the challenger lived to fight another day with sympathy votes going their way in the next election.

Yes FS, you are right. Nothing changes with the current level of representation or even slightly more.
It is so disappointing to see those who berate opposition parties and members who seem to be sincere in wanting to help and speak up for the ordinary Singaporeans, whatever party they may be or affiliation/background.
Just because of their own bitterness, selfish reasons, immovable mindset or whatever reasons they may have.

 

[ahkow]

Yes FS, you are right. Nothing changes with the current level of representation or even slightly more.
It is so disappointing to see those who berate opposition parties and members who seem to be sincere in wanting to help and speak up for the ordinary Singaporeans, whatever party they may be or affiliation/background.
Just because of their own bitterness, selfish reasons, immovable mindset or whatever reasons they may have.

LTK caught Inderjit Singh with his pants down. He virtually ran away from the voting when he realized that Low called for a division which means his vote will be recorded down.Inderjit is just a scam, pretend to talk tough but actually a compliant mouse in disguise.

 

[mojoe]

LTK caught Inderjit Singh with his pants down. He virtually ran away from the voting when he realized that Low called for a division which means his vote will be recorded down.Inderjit is just a scam, pretend to talk tough but actually a compliant mouse in disguise.

brilliant really brilliant
else they all talk cock sing song and hope to pull wool over the electorate's eyes

 

[jw5]

LTK caught Inderjit Singh with his pants down. He virtually ran away from the voting when he realized that Low called for a division which means his vote will be recorded down.Inderjit is just a scam, pretend to talk tough but actually a compliant mouse in disguise.

It's all preplanned by the pappies from the very beginning and Inderjit was not caught out at all.
No difference whether the votes are recorded or not.
After Inderjit steps down as an MP, they will just get someone else to be the designated "opposing voice from within".
There will be no consequences for anyone who is the designated one.
Nothing changes unless there are real opposing voices in parliament and I don't want to hear any shit that WP is not a real opposing voice, since all 9 of their MPs voted against.
Not today and not at the moment anyway.

 

[wwabbit]

I highly doubt that this move was not expected at all by any PAP member. It has been commonly used by the opposition on many contentious issue. JBJ used to move for division on almost anything he wants to vote against the PAP, Hansard has even recorded a couple of exasperated responses from the PAP. Some time after that the rules must have been changed such that the motion has to be supported by at least 4 other members, but any member may choose to have his own vote recorded on Hansard.

 

[sirus]

Just a question, if PAP is voted out can the next gahment null and void this white paper?

 

[Fook Seng]

Just a question, if PAP is voted out can the next gahment null and void this white paper?

I believe the next govt has the right to reverse any policy that it deems fit. Anyway policies are not engraved in stone. Remember the Stop at 2 policy which took a 180% U-turn? When that happens, you know the previous policy must have failed badly.

In this population policy in question, foreign import is just one part of the policy but it was the crucial part according to the Govt. Assuming you can manage to Improve TFR and do away with a large foreign import, with Lucky Tan's observation that you are solving a future problem with a "solution" 25 years ahead of time by importing foreigners, you would still be solving the aging problem but relieve the present congestion in our infrastructure.

The terminal population might still be the same 6.9 million (I am very certain that by now some town planners would start to say it could even be higher) but it being achieved only very far into the future and you are getting there at a more leisurely pace, gives you a lot of the time to improve on your infrastructure especially the public transport, more than just residences.

In my opinion, it is easier to build flats, even hospitals than to find the space to achieve an ideal, balanced development of an enhanced transportation network. There are many constraints in land use. You cannot just pull down buildings and start building taller. You need to relocate population first. To do that you need to first create new road and rail connectivities to the new residential areas.

If carried out within a short time, it will be a less than ideal, piecemeal programme. Given a longer time to do that, you can achieve better optimization, better chance of accommodating the larger terminal population without splitting the seams.

Take for example, if we wish to optimize the land use within the CBD, it might be a good idea to relocate Paya Lebar Airport earlier rather than later. But Singaporean politicians are not known for making bold decisions fast. But such a move will not only lift the glass ceiling of 280 m over the CBD but liberate the large tracts of airport land for housing, retail and commercial purposes.

Now if this decision is taken late, all new land and potential re-development areas have already been developed, this lifting of the glass ceiling will not serve any purpose and if previous planning of road and rail networks were based on the constraint of 280 m, how are we going to re-do the roads and rails to accommodate the higher density from taller buildings without causing congestion? Given a longer time to do a proper, coordinated, phased programme, several of these issues could be avoided.

And there is an additional bonus. You don't need the additional tax money from a fast growing economy to fund large infrastructural projects within a short time.

 

[Satyr]

PAP MPs had life too easy and cushy,they don't know what is real life in the outside world ,that's why most of them they can only work in a GLC.

I am wondering if Georgie Yeo has decided that work for a non-Singapore entity and to be based outside Singapore so that he can show his true qualities. He does not need to rely on cronyism to make it in the world. Unlike the rest.

 

[zhihau]

vote the PAP out! 發啊！

 

[wwabbit]

Just a question, if PAP is voted out can the next gahment null and void this white paper?

The White Paper is not a binding order. It just sets a bunch of guidelines for the various ministries to follow. If Worker's Party takes over the government after the next GE, they will just appoint a new group of ministers to do things differently.

 

[sirus]

Thanks to FS and WBIT for the enlightenment.
Just vote the PAP out next GE simple as that. he..he..

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Dear Frens,

this white paper debate to me has seen the best in the Opposition (the sort of opposition the singaporean want and not the oppose for the sake of opposing that the minority wants) and the nastiness of the PAP (thanks to the shit sprouted by WKS and MBT, who caused the problem in the 1st place by getting caught off guard). However I want to point out for the future, I think we as singaporeans should adopt a different system instead of the ang mor land Westminister model that spore is based on.

The westminister model is only a parliamentary democracy and not a peoples democracy. The party controls its members and not the people. RIght now WP is in good steed as it has discipline and it works for the people,,,but if WP turn bad,,,just like PAP,,we are screwed,,,

I really prefer an enhancement to the Presidency...whereby the President has executive powers of veto etc,,,and i get to vote for my leader,,,whereas in the west minister model,,,the PM is not voted by me,,but by the party,,,just my rants

 

[Fook Seng]

Although the electorate is wiser now with many of the issues regarding population growth, but somehow the key points have not been fully debated upon. LTK was right to point out the whole population issue was caused by a bad immigration policy and that not enough effort was made to increase TFR. In fact, I would say the main objective of the White paper was to seek approval for raising foreign allocation to 45%. This the PAP managed to keep it.

 

[zhihau]

This the PAP managed to keep it.

bro,
vote the PAP out! 發啊！

 

[gambit123]

Interesting observations... the PAP has lost the trust of the Singaporeans.. They keep saying their policies are for the interests of Singaporeans but their execution has shown that these same policies have failed SIngaporeans miserably. I am worried about the implications forward for Singapore in terms of social cohesion, rich-poor divide and economic development. The term of "kicking the can forward" has been used and my analogy is this is a ticking time bomb that is still ticking.