Mah’s explanation does not square with HDB’s annual report

[jw5]

Dear Scroobal,

That is my greatest fear. If that happens, I will throw my challenge to the PM to name his next Minister of National Development.

Goh Meng Seng

There are many other areas which can be targetted, not just housing development.
You and your comrades just have to think harder.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

There are many other areas which can be targetted, not just housing development.
You and your comrades just have to think harder.

Dear JW5,

Of course there are areas that could be tackled under the Ministry (becoming Mystery) of National Development. Housing just happens to be the most influential part of the ministry.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[jw5]

Dear JW5,

Of course there are areas that could be tackled under the Ministry (becoming Mystery) of National Development. Housing just happens to be the most influential part of the ministry.

Goh Meng Seng

I agree.
But what I meant was that there are other policies and areas in other ministries that can be targetted.
They are only deluding themselves and the ignorant segment of the voting population if they think they are doing a great job everywhere.

 

[iamalsothere]

I don't understand why a city which has so many so-called "talents" (foreign and local alike) still fails to see the pricing strategy for HDB flats. Where are all the so-called consultants and management gurus and marketing experts? I am sure they are also subjected to these pricing conditions since they live here. Perhaps they are all living in mansions and condos????

Well, I am a nobody, for sure. But after hearing what Mah Bow Tan kept saying in an interview with two other "guests" on CNA, I am surpprised no one picked up the truth in between the lines.

In that interview which was aired about a month ago (late April or early May 2010?), he kept insisting that the prices of HDB flats are priced according to "affordability". After reflecting on this statement, I concluded that what MBT said can only be the truth. See, this is what he meant....(this is a simplistic illustration but you will get the idea):

I have no doubt that the govt definition of "affordability" is based on an average Singaporean income throughout his average "economic-active" life span (say between 21 ann 62 years old) or 40 years of working life. Let's say the average income for this period is $1,500,000. After subtracting the average household expenditure, the average entertainment expense and travel and other personal expenses, the person is left with $700,000 disposal income for the 40-year period.

Well, this is the "value" ($700,000) the HDB flat will priced. Of course, there are several levels of pricing because there are several income levels but this is just an illustration. This "clever" way of pricing can resolve many political, economic and social issues in our society. Let's enumerate some of them here:

1. Sporeans will not retire comfortable. They will have to keep working until they die. This is good for the economy when there is a shortage of workers. We can't attract foreign companies if we have no workers, right?
2. This also means that if every Singaporean continues to work, they will have CPF and medi-shield and insurance paid for by companies, so the govt won't have to bother much about them in old age, right?
3. Keeping Singaporeans thinking about their mortgage until they reaxch 62 is also an excellent politcal solution to silence Singaporeans because they won't be sitting in coffeeshops and shopping malls thinking of ways to start politcal parties and complaining to the forums and creating all the flak about the government (same thinking here when they sent youths to NS too). You now know that the prices of flats are increasing because they have raised the retirement age!
4. If Sporeans are only self-sifficient (with little savings), they won't be thinking about migrating too, which the govt is trying to curb. Afterall, how do you stop 70% of the population with goals to emigrate?

The pricing of HDB flats resolves all these issues with one stroke, don't you think?

So, all you so-called property gurus, economists, financial advisors and what not, non of you really know what is going on, so you all should stop giving nonsensical summaries.

I share this not to make you more angry with the govt. I share this to tell fellow Singaporeans to ask an even deeper question - why do you think our society has come to this state? What is the real issue here? It is certainly not the govt or MBT. The real problem is you - Singaporeans. It is your state-of-mind, your attitide, your values, your lack of appreciate, your lack of guts, your lack of knowledge and your lack of will to make Singapore yours. Just look around you - you haven't change. So, my guess is that the PAP will be here to continue to control your lives until you are able to see what matters in life.

Think about it. Stop blaming the govt. Is it not you who put the power in their hands? Now, the octopus has a tight grip on you.

 

[johnny333]

Think about it. Stop blaming the govt. Is it not you who put the power in their hands? Now, the octopus has a tight grip on you.

We have the cleanest gov't in the world. Thats why they can command those multi-million dollar salaries

 

[scroobal]

Every few months some newbie will drop the same schoolboy line of "reverse psychology" to spur them on just like you did below.

Nothing is going to change because the grip is tight and govt is smart enough to allow you to go for yearly holiday to Oz, Phuket etc and to buy your LV and spend thousands of dollars renovating a pigeonghole

So what does one do? Think out of box. These are some of the things the smart ones do:

1) Migrate and start a life afresh.

2) Those who can't, will make sure that their kids move overseas.

3) Treat Singapore as the PAP does - good place to draw an income, speculate on properties

I know of people who migrated that have come back and working here as the taxes are lower but have the peace of mind that their children are well educated overseas, that they have a big house, and can retire without worries.

By now you should have realised that this country is just an employment centre. Treat it as such and not a home and your priorities and game plan will change drastically.

Alternatively, adopt the PAP style. Be mercenary in the way that you do business or do your work. Just milk the system and the people and take no prisoners. Employ cheap labour, blame the locals for being lazy, take advance fee for employing some dumb PRC/Indian national, take money from spring singapore, join the grassroots, suck up to the PAP, get contracts, scratch each other's back etc.

hink about it. Stop blaming the govt. Is it not you who put the power in their hands? Now, the octopus has a tight grip on you.

 

[Papsmearer]

I don't understand why a city which has so many so-called "talents" (foreign and local alike) still fails to see the pricing strategy for HDB flats. Where are all the so-called consultants and management gurus and marketing experts? I am sure they are also subjected to these pricing conditions since they live here. Perhaps they are all living in mansions and condos????

Some of them don't really know what is going on, some know but keep quiet because its their likelihood, and finally, some have swallowed so much propaganda that they believe it. In fact, I am not sure you really understand it yourself.

Well, I am a nobody, for sure. But after hearing what Mah Bow Tan kept saying in an interview with two other "guests" on CNA, I am surpprised no one picked up the truth in between the lines.

In that interview which was aired about a month ago (late April or early May 2010?), he kept insisting that the prices of HDB flats are priced according to "affordability". After reflecting on this statement, I concluded that what MBT said can only be the truth. See, this is what he meant....(this is a simplistic illustration but you will get the idea):

I have no doubt that the govt definition of "affordability" is based on an average Singaporean income throughout his average "economic-active" life span (say between 21 ann 62 years old) or 40 years of working life. Let's say the average income for this period is $1,500,000. After subtracting the average household expenditure, the average entertainment expense and travel and other personal expenses, the person is left with $700,000 disposal income for the 40-year period.

The affordability mentioned by Cow is illusion. They based it on the "purchased" of a HDB flat.But actually, the flat is not for sale. The HDB is only selling a prepaid lease for 99 years. When you look at it as a long term rental, than the whole affordability calculation is thrown off. If you are buying the flat, and its a freehold and you actually own it, than the price that HDB is charging u might have some justification, and one could say its "affordable". The reason is u have the use of it into perpetuity, and so does the next generation of your family. But if you are prepaying your 99 year rent within 30-40 years, which is whaT is actually happening, than its not affordable at all.

Well, this is the "value" ($700,000) the HDB flat will priced. Of course, there are several levels of pricing because there are several income levels but this is just an illustration. This "clever" way of pricing can resolve many political, economic and social issues in our society. Let's enumerate some of them here:

1. Sporeans will not retire comfortable. They will have to keep working until they die. This is good for the economy when there is a shortage of workers. We can't attract foreign companies if we have no workers, right?
This situation is being remedied as we sepak by the importation of large amounts of younger FTs.
2. This also means that if every Singaporean continues to work, they will have CPF and medi-shield and insurance paid for by companies, so the govt won't have to bother much about them in old age, right?
Your problem with this theory is that local companies lay off older workers deliberately to avoid this.
3. Keeping Singaporeans thinking about their mortgage until they reaxch 62 is also an excellent politcal solution to silence Singaporeans because they won't be sitting in coffeeshops and shopping malls thinking of ways to start politcal parties and complaining to the forums and creating all the flak about the government (same thinking here when they sent youths to NS too). You now know that the prices of flats are increasing because they have raised the retirement age!
Its a dual edged swords. Most sinkies remember a time when the mortgage could be paid off in 10-15 years. Like in their parent's case. They will resent the PAP for making them work to 62 and will vote against them.
4. If Sporeans are only self-sifficient (with little savings), they won't be thinking about migrating too, which the govt is trying to curb. Afterall, how do you stop 70% of the population with goals to emigrate?

The pricing of HDB flats resolves all these issues with one stroke, don't you think?

So, all you so-called property gurus, economists, financial advisors and what not, non of you really know what is going on, so you all should stop giving nonsensical summaries.

Most so called property gurus don't do HDB flats. Most real estate agents cannot explain to you the difference between Freehold, Leasehold, and HDB lease. Financial advisors are just as bad because they don't tell you that CPF is for retirement and not to cover living expenses like the roof over your head. They also don't tell you that paying 30-40 years of rent IN ADVANCE is a bad idea. Real estate lawyers don't tell you that when you are signing the HDB agreement, its actually a long term rental and not a purchase. As for economists, most of them are PAP sanctioned directly or indirectly. If you practiced a contrary brand of economics in NUS or in a govt. ministry, one even in one of the investment houses, you will find yourself out of a job quickly.

I share this not to make you more angry with the govt. I share this to tell fellow Singaporeans to ask an even deeper question - why do you think our society has come to this state? What is the real issue here? It is certainly not the govt or MBT. The real problem is you - Singaporeans. It is your state-of-mind, your attitide, your values, your lack of appreciate, your lack of guts, your lack of knowledge and your lack of will to make Singapore yours. Just look around you - you haven't change. So, my guess is that the PAP will be here to continue to control your lives until you are able to see what matters in life.

Think about it. Stop blaming the govt. Is it not you who put the power in their hands? Now, the octopus has a tight grip on you.

I just want to ask you something. U will admit that 33% of the population agree that there should be change as you say above. Lets say that it was actually 66% that did not vote PAP and only 33% that did.How would we know this? The PAP controls the media, the police, the elections department, the judges, even the President, etc. If they lost, would we ever know? Already some oppo members mentioned potentaial vote fraud when some of the ballot boxes were unescorted to the counting stations. If we had a truly independent President, he would refuse to swear in the new govt. until the irregularities were investigated. An independent press would be watching the elections and the PAP actions like a hawk. The fact is the PAP might have lost the last elections and you would never know.

 

[Papsmearer]

Every few months some newbie will drop the same schoolboy line of "reverse psychology" to spur them on just like you did below.

Nothing is going to change because the grip is tight and govt is smart enough to allow you to go for yearly holiday to Oz, Phuket etc and to buy your LV and spend thousands of dollars renovating a pigeonghole

So what does one do? Think out of box. These are some of the things the smart ones do:

1) Migrate and start a life afresh.

2) Those who can't, will make sure that their kids move overseas.

3) Treat Singapore as the PAP does - good place to draw an income, speculate on properties

I know of people who migrated that have come back and working here as the taxes are lower but have the peace of mind that their children are well educated overseas, that they have a big house, and can retire without worries.

By now you should have realised that this country is just an employment centre. Treat it as such and not a home and your priorities and game plan will change drastically.

Alternatively, adopt the PAP style. Be mercenary in the way that you do business or do your work. Just milk the system and the people and take no prisoners. Employ cheap labour, blame the locals for being lazy, take advance fee for employing some dumb PRC/Indian national, take money from spring singapore, join the grassroots, suck up to the PAP, get contracts, scratch each other's back etc.

Yep, you have to play the game here as you describe above. The only thing is sinkies are too lazy, or stupid or just swallow PAP propaganda to figure out the rules of the game. U cannot play when you don't know the rules.

 

[Papsmearer]

There are many other areas which can be targetted, not just housing development.
You and your comrades just have to think harder.

Of course many areas can be targetted. But the PAP has had 50 years to screw up things. U cannot tackle everything all at once. Choose the biggest more important ones first.

 

[lianbeng]

what u expect to come out of the "horse" mouth?

 

[ah_phah]

what u expect to come out of the "horse" mouth?

in chinese its called 牛头不对马嘴 (cow head dont match horse mouth)

u ask him A, he will answer you B

 

[lianbeng]

他马的！his horse one!