• IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here.

    The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.

LOL, NCC members gloating at CHC investigations

elephanto

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
FCBC's 'Apostle' Lawrence Khong believed the South American churches' G12 concept of organization (as in 12 apostles).

I am more for local churches, small congregation (a few hundred), members on first name basis, involved in fellowship & genuine Christian interaction & bible study.

Super organization, using technology to automate tithes collection, rock music, over-zealousness in 'Mission', 'winning souls' & all that lingo somehow just make me uncomfortable.
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
Are you sure ?

Well I hope I am because the more Christians (largely) the more salvation.

Not controversial, but unfair & biased.

Religion unlike politics is largely biased. As for unfair, I think most other religions already think Christianity is. :smile:

I don't speak for Muslims & Hindus. But for Buddhists, whether Therveda or Mahayana, besides New & Full Moon Prayer/Offerings, there are Sunday worship & meditation/chanting/suttra-doctrine classes as well

Sorry, forgot to add that I was talking about S'pore Chinese and excluded Hindus and Muslims. I do not have many around me who call themselves Buddhists and go to temples or meetings on a weekly basis. Overall I have the impression that the most active in their religion are Christians.

I don't understand this, on one hand you said there are cultural Christians in US, there are in Spore too ...

Singapore never had a large group of Christians for a long time whose descendants are not so committed to faith, unlike UK, US etc.

I personally am against churches who are very firm in enforcing cellgroup participation. That's really group mind control. They somehow make traditional Sunday churchgoers feel inadequate & superficial. But there are superficial Christians, whether active in cellgroup or merely living private Christian lives.

True, but participation/contribution in activity is a measure of one's commitment. It's just like how S'poreans do not vote for inactive politicians.
 

elephanto

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Hi guys,
I just recently chanced upon the below article in a forum which is very interesting and very relevant to your topic. And I personally find that the writer wrote this really well. -:
Recently i was invited by one of my students to attend an Easter celebration at his church. I agreed as he had also made an effort to attend my recent birthday party in spite of the rain.
Now i have actually been to his church before, when it was still located at their old premises. That time, i was actually tricked into going there by another one of my ex-students. Prior to this, i have also visited a number of these “New Age churches” across the island.
First impressions?
The people there are way too friendly (WTF raspberry) always ready with that smile. You soon realise that they actually do not know you nor are they really interested to know you (Because you were not invited by their group nor do you know any of them). They are just friendly because everyone else is smiling and being friendly. That said, regardless of intentions, the place does give the impression that it is very welcoming due to the wide teeth showing smiles going around.
There is NOTHING in the “Church” that suggests that it is, indeed, a church except for maybe the name and logo of the place (So-and-so Church). Of course, there will be the standard pulpit and who can forget the most important must-have. The stage and sound system. You end up feeling like you are in a seminar (for the young virgin rookie churches) or a concert hall (the bigger more established churches).
The format of a typical service? Lots of loud music and singing. You stand up for a good half an hour to sing your praises to the lord. Not sure about the song? No worries. There will be screens that will project the lyrics for you to sing along to. Yay.
After the sing along, and some will end up in tears, you can only wonder why, a pastor will step up and spend a few mins talking to you about the church you are in. Welcoming you, praising the lord for guiding you here, thanking your friend who brought you here, thanking you for allowing the lord to bring you here. All these while you dun feel as if you yourself are being thanked for coming. You are being guided here, through the work of the holy father. The said pastor will go on to encourage you to give your donations and immediately the donation bags will start to be passed around. They don’t waste any time do they?
After this little activity, you will have to stand up again and the songs will start again. Are we in a choir or a church you wonder. Sometimes you end up standing and sitting and then standing again for the other half an hour. After which, the senior pastor will then begin to minister his speech for the day. After a good 2 + hours (They NEVER end on time), it’s over and people can start to leave.
Now after seeing all this happen, i have a few questions. But i will go into that later.
First off, it’s really interesting to listen to the “senior pastor” or whoever was the star speaker for that day. He/She will quote the bible (title, verse and line) and actually INTERPRET the said line. You will of course see the attendees diligently jotting down notes on their notebooks. In the first instance when i was at the current church i am talking about, the senior pastor was energetically focusing on MONEY. Quoting the bible and basically imprinting on everyone, or so he tries, that even god himself is endorsing the usage of money to enrich the church (They were in the process of shifting to the new premises and that senior pastor was so proud of revealing the $500,000 sound system his church just acquired).
This is supposed to be God we are talking about. What does he need money for? His words were supposedly recorded two thousand years ago. Would the people then have known about sound systems and band sets? Jesus, the supposed son of god, has disciples mainly from the lower caste during the time where he was supposedly around. People were known to have given up their wealth and even credibility (his prophets are the best examples) to be his students. Why would he be preaching about monetary wealth? About glorifying himself?
Then there is the supposed testimonials from those who have been saved and touched by god. And they have given of themselves fully into the service of god. To be his humble and faithful servant.
That’s where my question came. God is supposed to be all loving, compassionate and above all, all knowing. He knows who and what we are because HE supposedly MADE us. He is the ultimate form of mercy and unconditional love. If so, why does he DEMAND our full and COMPLETE obedience, to give ourselves fully without question to him, before we can be saved by his grace and accepted into heaven when judgment day comes? If this is a requirement BEFORE salvation can come, is it still UNCONDITIONAL love from the almighty father? The answer i got was that god give us free will, through his unrivalled love and grace. We can CHOOSE to accept him or not. Right. So when he gives us a “gift”, and we use the “gift”, but didn’t use it the way HE likes it, we are to be condemned? Is that STILL FREE WILL? Why does an almighty father who knows us and made us still need us to obey him without question if not, we won’t be saved? This is what you can expect from a slave and master relationship. Not a holy father.
Then there is this 14 year old kid that said he was saved by god (during his testimonial). There was a montage of his academic and personal accomplishments BEFORE he found god. All the medals he got, NO ONE Applauded for that achievement. I was the only alien that did clap (so many of them turned around and looked at me with the “you are being irritating” look.) It’s as if it didn’t matter. Medals? So what. High PSLE points? So what? It was only when the kid mentioned “god”, then the applause came fast and furious. I was dumbfounded. What? This kid achieved all those things, he could not have done it without some supernatural help? What logic is that? So what? we humans are NOTHING? All the achievements we work hard to attain is NOTHING?
The kid went on to add that his dad, being a STRICT Taoist for the past 20 odd years, also converted to being a christian. As expected, furious hand clapping came. The arrogance and selfish attitude of the whole congregation was drowning. Why do i say that? Simple. If it were to happen the OTHER way round, where a devote christian for 20 odd years were to convert to say, Islam or Buddhism, It will be “He has abandoned god”, “He has lost his way”, “He has fallen”, “He will not be saved”. For the all loving and perfect god, where is the forgiveness? Where is the UNCONDITIONAL love? It’s as if any other religion DID NOT MATTER. Because hey, there is only ONE true god right? Who cares about the devote monk who spent his entire life praying to Buddha, no less devoted to his religion, at the end of the day, hey, sorry man, you are going to hell man. You did not accept god. Too Bad.
Gone are the days where one goes to church to seek solace. Where the place is peaceful, private. Where the image of the lord or his son Jesus Christ, the holy son, laid on the cross, is perched on the altar. Where you have to raise your head, kneel on the ground or perch yourself over the long benches and seek your answers. Pray, commune with the higher power. Cry if you have too. Voice your anger if you need too. The private conversation with your creator. You WILL feel the presence. You Will feel the power in such a place. Where has that gone too?
I am always told that we have to move with the times. And what is our current time looking like? A church without the image? A church that is more like a concert all rather then a holy place? Half a million dollars worth of SOUND and Stage Systems? Pastors who drives big cars and lives in private properties? Churches are actually COMPETING with one another for numbers. Is Christianity a race? A competition? There are so many “True house of god” now. Does it mean that all the other churches are fakes? When the lord says that “anyone who is in need, may he find solace in my house”, does it mean that there is ONLY one church you can go to? (Face it. There are MANY out there who die die will only go to ONE church and nowhere else. Heck, they even find partners in the same church and NO WHERE ELSE). In that logic, only the members of YOUR church, the “True” house of god, will be saved? Too bad for the OTHER fake churches? Do they preach such ARROGANCE to you?
At this rate, very soon we will find ourselves in places where holograms, and who knows WHAT else (a spaceship, maybe) can be a “house of god”. Where does the buck end? When is a church a church anymore?
In the past where people donate to the church they attend, it’s for the upkeep of the church. Repairs, Paintings, a small extension etc. The father/priest of the church either already has a proper day time job or works as caretaker in the church. Gainfully employed, with the donations going exclusively TO THE CHURCH.
Now? Founders of churches drives good cars, have credit cards. Is this “going with the times” ? Does people NOT see what is happening before their very eyes? The using of religion as a tool for wealth and status? No?
By Charlene | 04.19.09 | 5:53 pm | Permalink
 

Debonerman

Alfrescian
Loyal
In a nutshell, the $64,000 dollar question is, why the more educated you are as a society, the more sizeable the numbers of brainwashed dumbfuck cunts!
 
Top