Living in JB 3 (Johore)

[Funds Transfer]

Sorry if I have offended you, I am an adult, all investment carries risks, even in Singapore. Look at the property prices in Singapore, my brother brought one 2 to 3 years ago, it is still not appreciated. D Leedon is having special price now.

I was initially attracted by D' Leedon's price cuts. It is true that the discounted units are around S$1,350+ psf as compared to $1,600+ when it was first launched. But they are units that are mostly 1,400 sqf and above which would bring the unit to more than S$2m including ABSD. Not the best investment option around.

 

[Funds Transfer]

Don't know whether this is a silly question to ask for opinions from bros and sis here. Maybe it's becos I don't trust our Sg govt anymore.

Thinking of where to put my all important but small lifelong savings in case there's a run for money at the banks.
Am very worried abt the way this world esp. the financial world is heading. Just not right.
Which banks do you think will be stronger or still left standing if the property mkt bubble burst big time in the next economic meltdown which will probably be much worse than 2008 with the printing of $ not helping anymore, Singapore or Malaysian banks? Is Maybank much more aggressive in lending than other Malaysian banks?

Personally, I prefer Malaysian banks as properties there are not that overpriced and I also think only a small percentage of the people in Malaysia are over leveraged as compared to Sg. Also the number of foreigners as a percentage to local population there is nothing compare to Sg (they will not be around if their property value goes much lower than their loans). Our SWFs would already have lost almost everything they invested overseas.

What do you think of Malaysian banks as compared to Sg banks? Please ignore if you find this question stupid. Thanks.
(Btw, already sold my only house in Sg and bought 2 properties in Nusajaya.)

Your concern is definitely not misplaced.

In December 2010, the Asian Development Bank (ADB) said that Singapore's fast-rising home prices was "worrying", as real-estate lending accounts for more than half of total loans in the banking system. You may Google on that and try to find out if there are further updates but that percentage could have risen even more in the last two years.

In comparison, the share of property-related loans in total loans is as low as 9 per cent in South Korea, 15 per cent or less in Indonesia and the Philippines, and below 20 per cent in Hong Kong, Thailand and China at that time. Bear in mind, the Chinese and Hong Kong property curbs had not taken place yet.

At 51 per cent of advances, Singapore's banking sector's exposure to property is the highest among the nine major economies of East Asia, followed by 42 per cent in Taiwan and 38 per cent in Malaysia, the ADB data in 2010 showed. Some kind souls out there may want to do some research to see if the numbers have moved.

But the good thing is that the Singapore banks are very well capitalised and belong to the Tier 1 Capital base under the Bank of International Settlements (BIS) guidelines.

I am not quite familiar with the Malaysian banking scene but if I am not wrong, it introduced its Deposit Insurance System some years back. Malaysia Deposit Insurance Corporation (MDIC) (Perbadanan Insurans Deposit Malaysia (PIDM)) is a statutory body formed under the Malaysia Deposit Insurance Corporation Act. All commercial and Islamic banks, including foreign banks operating in Malaysia, are compulsory member institutions of PIDM. The maximum coverage limit is RM250,000 per depositor per member institution. Perhaps, it may be better to have multiple relationships with the financial institutions out there and ensure security coverage.

The recent Cyprus issue has also raised the importance of not having all your deposit eggs in one single basket.

 

[cheerguan]

Singapore banks should be one of the safest:
http://www.gfmag.com/tools/best-banks/11661-worlds-50-safest-banks-april-2012.html

I thought it is better to keep 1 property in Singapore. Malaysia may not always welcome foreigners. Right now it is eager to attractive foreign investment to Iskandar, that is why it is so accommodating in foreigners buying up freehold landed.

Yes, will definitely get 1 property (preferably cheaper than now) in Sg in near future. Even my elderly mum also has been constantly reminding me abt this. Just that I can't afford to take the risk of holding my property in Sg while buying my properties in MY. Anything happen, no more savings. Thanks for your advice.

 

[ginfreely]

Yes, will definitely get 1 property (preferably cheaper than now) in Sg in near future. Even my elderly mum also has been constantly reminding me abt this. Just that I can't afford to take the risk of holding my property in Sg while buying my properties in MY. Anything happen, no more savings. Thanks for your advice.

Must have a property in SG, never know whether welcome is forever and by then maybe too old to qualify for loan.

 

[cheerguan]

This is what I have been doing since 2007.

1. Put some cash in safe deposit box. (like Certis Cisco safe box; not bank related)
2. Buy some gold and silver. (coins preferred. Gold from UOB Plaza One; Silver from www.silverbullion.com.sg)
3. Get some cash in hand that can last you 6 months. (mixed currency worth SGD$60,000 of USD, GBP, YEN, EURO, SGD, MYR, HKD, RMB)
4. Buy properties oversea.
5. Try not to take up too much mortgage if you have the cash to pay in full. (if bank is broke; your cash is gone but you still owe the mortgage)
6. Start some hobby that can help in your investment. (collect watches like Rolex or Patek P; collect Montblanc pens; Collect Painting; Collect Diamond above 2 ct.)

Thanks.
Good ideas above esp the gold coins. You keep them in your house? Will also check up on the safe deposit box with Cisco
I was actually considering buying a property in Kuching as I find the city rather clean and orderly, different from rest of MY. Good place to stay or retire when everywhere else is in chaos. Low population together with abundance of land and food. But with kids still in school here at least for next 10yrs, this plan has to be put on hold. Don't think the rental there is attractive too.

 

[1nottiboy]

I actually wrote an essay in reply before deciding on a shorter one.

if you think there might be a bank run and world financial collapse is coming, your ONLY safe choice is GOLD. But seriously, do you really think that's gonna happen?

As for SG Banks vs MY Banks, SG banks are definitely better capitalised and safer.

While I think your investment in Nusajaya is right, I would at least hold a HDB in SG as a safety net. Why dont you give it some thought? Some friendly advice - countryman to countryman.

Don't know whether this is a silly question to ask for opinions from bros and sis here. Maybe it's becos I don't trust our Sg govt anymore.

Thinking of where to put my all important but small lifelong savings in case there's a run for money at the banks.
Am very worried abt the way this world esp. the financial world is heading. Just not right.
Which banks do you think will be stronger or still left standing if the property mkt bubble burst big time in the next economic meltdown which will probably be much worse than 2008 with the printing of $ not helping anymore, Singapore or Malaysian banks? Is Maybank much more aggressive in lending than other Malaysian banks?

Personally, I prefer Malaysian banks as properties there are not that overpriced and I also think only a small percentage of the people in Malaysia are over leveraged as compared to Sg. Also the number of foreigners as a percentage to local population there is nothing compare to Sg (they will not be around if their property value goes much lower than their loans). Our SWFs would already have lost almost everything they invested overseas.

What do you think of Malaysian banks as compared to Sg banks? Please ignore if you find this question stupid. Thanks.
(Btw, already sold my only house in Sg and bought 2 properties in Nusajaya.)

 

[cheerguan]

Your concern is definitely not misplaced.

In December 2010, the Asian Development Bank (ADB) said that Singapore's fast-rising home prices was "worrying", as real-estate lending accounts for more than half of total loans in the banking system. You may Google on that and try to find out if there are further updates but that percentage could have risen even more in the last two years.

In comparison, the share of property-related loans in total loans is as low as 9 per cent in South Korea, 15 per cent or less in Indonesia and the Philippines, and below 20 per cent in Hong Kong, Thailand and China at that time. Bear in mind, the Chinese and Hong Kong property curbs had not taken place yet.

At 51 per cent of advances, Singapore's banking sector's exposure to property is the highest among the nine major economies of East Asia, followed by 42 per cent in Taiwan and 38 per cent in Malaysia, the ADB data in 2010 showed. Some kind souls out there may want to do some research to see if the numbers have moved.

But the good thing is that the Singapore banks are very well capitalised and belong to the Tier 1 Capital base under the Bank of International Settlements (BIS) guidelines.

I am not quite familiar with the Malaysian banking scene but if I am not wrong, it introduced its Deposit Insurance System some years back. Malaysia Deposit Insurance Corporation (MDIC) (Perbadanan Insurans Deposit Malaysia (PIDM)) is a statutory body formed under the Malaysia Deposit Insurance Corporation Act. All commercial and Islamic banks, including foreign banks operating in Malaysia, are compulsory member institutions of PIDM. The maximum coverage limit is RM250,000 per depositor per member institution. Perhaps, it may be better to have multiple relationships with the financial institutions out there and ensure security coverage.

The recent Cyprus issue has also raised the importance of not having all your deposit eggs in one single basket.

Yes, best is to spread risk in as many banks here in Sg and in MY as possible. The scenario look ok here at the moment but don't think can last the next 3yrs.

 

[cheerguan]

I actually wrote an essay in reply before deciding on a shorter one.

if you think there might be a bank run and world financial collapse is coming, your ONLY safe choice is GOLD. But seriously, do you really think that's gonna happen?

As for SG Banks vs MY Banks, SG banks are definitely better capitalised and safer.

While I think your investment in Nusajaya is right, I would at least hold a HDB in SG as a safety net. Why dont you give it some thought? Some friendly advice - countryman to countryman.

Hi, thanks for your advice. But can buy HDB while holding overseas properties meh? Am renting one here in Sg while waiting for completion of my MY properties and will see how the next 3yrs unfold before getting 1 in Singapore. Don't think prices here in Sg can climb another 20% during this time so no hurry for now.
Regarding the financial crisis, I always have this feeling the western countries will never let Asia continue to prosper while their own economies continue to be in worse doldrums. And I see there's no way out for them at least until after a huge turmoil. Leaders around the world are not like the past anymore esp. here in Sg. No good longterm ideas.
I also think it's best to spread as much risk as possible between the 2 countries banks. Btw, getting 3-4% interests with MY banks is also very tempting. Cheers.

 

[cheerguan]

Must have a property in SG, never know whether welcome is forever and by then maybe too old to qualify for loan.

True, but already too old to qualify for loan. That's why have to sell house here to buy in Iskander and able to still see some savings left. Am willing take the risk (3yrs) and hope for prices to come down till affordable level (ie. still having spare cash after buying 1) in Sg.

 

[FHBH12]

True, but already too old to qualify for loan. That's why have to sell house here to buy in Iskander and able to still see some savings left. Am willing take the risk (3yrs) and hope for prices to come down till affordable level (ie. still having spare cash after buying 1) in Sg.

The foreigners r coming back. Difficult for prices to correct. Those near MRT will continue to shoot up. Get ready for e Mar sales figures.

 

[cheerguan]

The foreigners r coming back. Difficult for prices to correct. Those near MRT will continue to shoot up. Get ready for e Mar sales figures.

Thanks for your info.
Hot printed money still coming in or govt continue to open it's door to FTs? Property prices up, rental up pushing costs of living up while salaries remain stagnant? Will this never end? But where's the ultimate level?
I think there's a limit to everything as many now are already very stretched to their limit before they cannot take it anymore. What's the % of the people have 2 or more properties here? Assets rich but cash poor. No extra spending power means businesses finally will also suffer. Or maybe I'm too overly pessimistic that there's something I've missed out on? Maybe we are only halfway from the ultimate level as I could have underestimated majority of the Sgrean's networth.

 

[Funds Transfer]

Thanks for your info.
Hot printed money still coming in or govt continue to open it's door to FTs? Property prices up, rental up pushing costs of living up while salaries remain stagnant? Will this never end? But where's the ultimate level?
I think there's a limit to everything as many now are already very stretched to their limit before they cannot take it anymore. What's the % of the people have 2 or more properties here? Assets rich but cash poor. No extra spending power means businesses finally will also suffer. Or maybe I'm too overly pessimistic that there's something I've missed out on? Maybe we are only halfway from the ultimate level as I could have underestimated majority of the Sgrean's networth.

Hot money will make its relentless push. The tsunami of cheap credit will continue to push up asset prices. First US, then Japan and before we realize it, India may follow too.

The less fortunate may have subsidies and Government aid while the rich will continue to exploit the financial weapons at their disposal. As middle class, we need to pray and also learn the tricks of the trade quickly in order to survive.

I think 25% of Singapore households have 2 or more properties but may be more if foreign properties are taken into consideration.

My 2 cents worth of opinion.

 

[Funds Transfer]

The foreigners r coming back. Difficult for prices to correct. Those near MRT will continue to shoot up. Get ready for e Mar sales figures.

Very wise observation. I don't see prices receding unless there's a SARs-like crisis. That said, prices may also not head upwards too quickly.

 

[Newbie11]

Thanks for your info.
Hot printed money still coming in or govt continue to open it's door to FTs? Property prices up, rental up pushing costs of living up while salaries remain stagnant? Will this never end? But where's the ultimate level?
I think there's a limit to everything as many now are already very stretched to their limit before they cannot take it anymore. What's the % of the people have 2 or more properties here? Assets rich but cash poor. No extra spending power means businesses finally will also suffer. Or maybe I'm too overly pessimistic that there's something I've missed out on? Maybe we are only halfway from the ultimate level as I could have underestimated majority of the Sgrean's networth.

I think you have underestimated the purchasing power of Singaporeans. don't squarely blame on FT. Most buyers are locals.

 

[cheerguan]

Hi all,
Very good points and info from learned bros who responded. Yes, have to keep an open mind on how to preserve wealth (against inflation or major crisis). Not easy. Very different what we learn from economic lessons in the old school days. It's an advance globalised world now compared to 20yrs ago.

 

[arsenal]

When I checked the Johor Quit Rent And Assessment Fee Payment assessment, the owner is "NUSAJAYA GREENS SDN BHD"

Anyone here has the same owner as that? Why it is not my name?

 

[1nottiboy]

You can own a HDB... until you get caught. They wont be so free to monitor everyone. Unless you got your oversea property loan in SG. otherwise its not easy for them to find out. or unless someone badmouths you.

I cant predict if SG property can climb another 20% or not, but its a also the same for Iskandar. That is unless you have a bigger and better crystal ball than mine. But there is a floor price for SG properties. The govt wont let it fall too much and whats more important is that you know population numbers will continue to climb. More ppl more demand.

Another thing is disposable income. The PAP just told Singaporeans that it is givng workers a pay raise by paying 40% of pay increases. This effectively is free money and what it actually does is set a minimum wage for Singaporeans i.e. increasing Singaporeans income. If I read it correctly, I predict that more 3 bedders will upgrade to 4 bedders, 4 bedders to 5 bedders and 5 bedders to condos, etc. I think you get the idea. So what do you think are the chances of property prices falling?

With regards to the financial crisis, it is true that the western economic powers dont play fair. But it really doesnt concern you because there is nothing you can do. Why bother over things you have no control over? I dont. Besides the world is your playground these days. You can choose to invest anywhere you want but I think SG and MY are big enough for you. If you really want to, there is also Thailand and AUS for you to invest or punt. But do you really need such a big playground? Just concentrate your fight on familiar grounds. Remember Sun Tze's Art of War. This is one of his lessons I remember. (Too many to remember anyway.)

As for investing in the banks, it really depends on your base currency. MYR 3-4% interest (assuming FD) looks good in theory but if it falls in value vs the SGD, it will erode or wipe out your interest gains, that is if your base currency is SGD. If you are looking at 3-4% returns, certain defensive stocks on the SGX can provide these returns with a chance of capital gains. IMO, better options but you have to do your own research. I wont be making any recommendations.

Hi, thanks for your advice. But can buy HDB while holding overseas properties meh? Am renting one here in Sg while waiting for completion of my MY properties and will see how the next 3yrs unfold before getting 1 in Singapore. Don't think prices here in Sg can climb another 20% during this time so no hurry for now.
Regarding the financial crisis, I always have this feeling the western countries will never let Asia continue to prosper while their own economies continue to be in worse doldrums. And I see there's no way out for them at least until after a huge turmoil. Leaders around the world are not like the past anymore esp. here in Sg. No good longterm ideas.
I also think it's best to spread as much risk as possible between the 2 countries banks. Btw, getting 3-4% interests with MY banks is also very tempting. Cheers.

 

[tutucake]

When I checked the Johor Quit Rent And Assessment Fee Payment assessment, the owner is "NUSAJAYA GREENS SDN BHD"

Anyone here has the same owner as that? Why it is not my name?

What do u search by? I search by identity number and I see the owner's name...

 

[1nottiboy]

I agree. Singaporeans are dam rich. I want to share 3 stories. All are my relatives.

Aunt number 1. Useless bitch. Can never hold a perm job. Always doing those get rich quick schemes. Her husband (when alive) and her bought a 5 room flat. He passed away relatively young. Mortage insurance kicked in. Now she wants to sell the flat and buy a second BTO with her son. She is sitting on easily SGD700K cash when she carries out her plan.

Aunt number 2. Unlucky woman got cheated by her husband. Lost EVERYTHING. but in a short span of 5 years, made everything back and more. Now living in district 15.

Normal Aunt and Uncle. This couple are your white collar workers with blue collar mentalities. Aunt is a average clerk. Uncle is a retired soldier. They clock in at 8, clock out at 6 everyday. Clockwork lifestyle. They milked the HDB twice. They managed to send their useless children to university and own a small condo (while still staying in their HDB). And still have SGD600K in CASH!

What do these ppl have in common? Their flats/condos are not renovated. Drive simple functional cars. No luxury goods. Borrow whenever possible (e.g. luggage, sweaters, accept old toys and books for their kids, etc).

I dont agree with their lifestyle and I certainly dont advocate it. Which explains why I dont have SGD500K in cash. But when I look around my neighbourhood, it seems that most ppl are happy to live in original condition houses, flats or condos, or with very little renovation done. Which then led me to conclude, SG is a land of crouching tigers and hidden dragons.

I think you have underestimated the purchasing power of Singaporeans. don't squarely blame on FT. Most buyers are locals.

 

[Funds Transfer]

I agree. Singaporeans are dam rich. I want to share 3 stories. All are my relatives.

Aunt number 1. Useless bitch. Can never hold a perm job. Always doing those get rich quick schemes. Her husband (when alive) and her bought a 5 room flat. He passed away relatively young. Mortage insurance kicked in. Now she wants to sell the flat and buy a second BTO with her son. She is sitting on easily SGD700K cash when she carries out her plan.

Aunt number 2. Unlucky woman got cheated by her husband. Lost EVERYTHING. but in a short span of 5 years, made everything back and more. Now living in district 15.

Normal Aunt and Uncle. This couple are your white collar workers with blue collar mentalities. Aunt is a average clerk. Uncle is a retired soldier. They clock in at 8, clock out at 6 everyday. Clockwork lifestyle. They milked the HDB twice. They managed to send their useless children to university and own a small condo (while still staying in their HDB). And still have SGD600K in CASH!

What do these ppl have in common? Their flats/condos are not renovated. Drive simple functional cars. No luxury goods. Borrow whenever possible (e.g. luggage, sweaters, accept old toys and books for their kids, etc).

I dont agree with their lifestyle and I certainly dont advocate it. Which explains why I dont have SGD500K in cash. But when I look around my neighbourhood, it seems that most ppl are happy to live in original condition houses, flats or condos, or with very little renovation done. Which then led me to conclude, SG is a land of crouching tigers and hidden dragons.

I don't know the age group of the relatives but my suspicion is that they belong to the age group of 45-60 currently.

IMHO, these people were in the golden age for Singapore during the 80s. They bought their HDB flats at less than SGD 100K and managed to let it go for SGD 400K or more when the property market zoomed up. Coupled with SGD 300K to 400K, they sank that into a condo or landed property worth SGD 700K to 800K. And the rest is history because that property would be close to SGD 2 million now.

But alot has to do with timing and guts too. A friend of mine who was a credit officer in one of the local banks told me that during the SARs Crisis and Global Financial Crisis, some of the unlikeliest investors went out to buy newly launched properties (Icon in Tanjong Pagar, Meraprime in Tiong Bahru) next to MRT stations knowing that it is a convenient location at less than SGD 550 psf.

And yes...they don't spend on renovation.