Leopard MBT Tanks's reputation Ruined in Syria in Erdogan's hands pics, what Ah Neh gun barrels?

[tun_dr_m]

http://slide.mil.news.sina.com.cn/l...mod=picg&loc=7&r=0&doct=0&rfunc=7&tj=none#p=1

德国制造名声全毁！土耳其豹2坦克幺蛾子事故不断
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土耳其军队在叙利亚阿夫林地区执行打击库尔德武装的军事行动中动用了最强的装备-豹-2A4坦克，虽然这些坦克是德国军队用过的二手货，但综合作战性能出色。不过土耳其的豹-2A4坦克一上战场就幺蛾子事故不断，最近在阿夫林地区一辆豹-2A4坦克的120毫米炮就炸膛了，断裂处呈现出复合材料的纤维状。（来源：鼎盛军事）

德国制造名声全毁！土耳其豹2坦克幺蛾子事故不断
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说到豹2主战坦克，可以说无人不知无人不晓。豹2坦克家族也长期占据世界十大主战坦克排行榜的No1，是德意志精工制作的卓越代表。没有想到的是，这种西方世界最为强大的主战坦克在40年前刚刚研制成功之时，差一点就被引进到中国成为中国陆军主战装备。在日本著名的战争幻想小说《明斯克出击》中，中国军队装备的豹2主战坦克在三北防线上全力迎战苏联强大的装甲洪流。

德国制造名声全毁！土耳其豹2坦克幺蛾子事故不断
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• 与小说家天马行空的思路不同，中国陆军确实曾经认真考虑过引进豹2主战坦克的事项，这在当时以苏系坦克为装备主体的中国军队来说是非常罕见的，而豹2坦克的印迹也实实在在地深深影响着中国主战坦克的发展。

德国制造名声全毁！土耳其豹2坦克幺蛾子事故不断
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• 1970年代末期，中央对全球战略形势作出了新的判断，一定程度上改变了过去“大打、早打、打核战争”的备战思想，在继续稳步推进以“两弹一星”工程为代表的战略力量建设同时，将主要精力转向了常规武器发展方向。

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1977年9月18日，中共中央、中央军委、中央专委决定集中力量，突出重点，大力抓好洲际导弹、潜地导弹和通信卫星研制、试验的“三抓”任务，争取国防尖端技术的新突破。同年12月，国务院、中央军委又作出了武器装备发展“以常规为主”的决策，要求在抓紧完成“三抓”任务的同时，逐步把重点转向解决常规武器装备的齐装配套上，并加快新型武器装备研制的步伐。


德国制造名声全毁！土耳其豹2坦克幺蛾子事故不断
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• 当时解放军陆军主战兵器发展困境重重，反坦克和防空武器装备缺乏，压制火炮机动性差，作为主要突击力量的坦克装甲车辆发展又严重滞后，与美苏英德等世界先进水平差距明显。在这个大背景下，中央军委审时度势，决定把陆军武器装备列为此轮常规武器装备发展的重点，要求在抓好现有装备补缺配套的同时，加速研制急需而又短缺的反坦克武器和野战防空武器，提高压制武器的威力和机动性，进一步加强坦克的突击能力。

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  在1970年代末期，曾经雄心勃勃的第二代主战坦克“122工程”由于无法突破诸多瓶颈问题而不得不以失败而告终。1978年4月，国防工办、国防科委和五机部在山西大同召开了“七八四”会议，讨论新的第二代主战坦克研制方案，会议决定第二代主战坦克以当时已经接近研制尾声的联邦德国“豹”2主战坦克为起点研制。

 

[tun_dr_m]

SAF must die!

 

[Froggy]

I very curious why many of these type of posts in this forum comes in chink language which I believe many like myself cannot read or have limitation in reading. Nevertheless why many of these posts trying to downplay the west are in this chinky language?

For crying out loud can these threads be in our first language which is English?

 

[Froggy]

ok ok ok ok let me join you fellas

​

 

[UMNO Terrorist]

I very curious why many of these type of posts in this forum comes in chink language which I believe many like myself cannot read or have limitation in reading. Nevertheless why many of these posts trying to downplay the west are in this chinky language?

For crying out loud can these threads be in our first language which is English?

News sources came in their original languages, not sure can find Engine or not. U can use Google Translation.

 

[tun_dr_m]

I very curious why many of these type of posts in this forum comes in chink language which I believe many like myself cannot read or have limitation in reading. Nevertheless why many of these posts trying to downplay the west are in this chinky language?

For crying out loud can these threads be in our first language which is English?

Began from 20 yrs go, I cut myself off from SPH MediaCock news.

Few years ago I also cut myself off from ENGLISH LANGUAGE NEWS feeds. Not tolerating their views, values, angle, opinions any longer. Apps allows me to filter news feed languages.

Ang Mohs goes to bins.

 

[whoami]

Like that then can i post in Arabic?

 

[Froggy]

Like that then can i post in Arabic?

You'll have to ask that Burmese owner @Leongsam

 

[tun_dr_m]

Like that then can i post in Arabic?

If you can convince readers that you had lead to interesting info, they can be bordered to find out / translate it. Many browsers / apps got a Translate button built in.

See pics / video / thread title / intro enough to know the ideas.

 

[greedy and cunning]

I very curious why many of these type of posts in this forum comes in chink language which I believe many like myself cannot read or have limitation in reading. Nevertheless why many of these posts trying to downplay the west are in this chinky language?

For crying out loud can these threads be in our first language which is English?

there are 2 rivalry camps here - one stoutly pro china and
the other vehemently anti china.

most anti china harsh criticism borders on being offensive
while so borders upon the ridiculous and stupidity.

 

[Papsmearer]

I very curious why many of these type of posts in this forum comes in chink language which I believe many like myself cannot read or have limitation in reading. Nevertheless why many of these posts trying to downplay the west are in this chinky language?

For crying out loud can these threads be in
our first language which is English?

This chinese report is full of inaccuracies. Lots of histrionics and not enough facts.

 

[Leckmichamarsch]

how come the pic shows gun barrel exploded like re inforced fiber glass????

 

[Papsmearer]

how come the pic shows gun barrel exploded like re inforced fiber glass????

The reinforced fibre glass that u see is actually not the barrel. Its the thermal gun sleeve. Its made of these fibres. The barrel itself is dependent on the manufacturer. Usually some variant of a CR-NI-MO alloy. There is a paper out there called "Large Caliber Gun Tube Materials Design". It makes for interesting reading, as I know u are technically able to read it. There could be several reasons for the gun barrel to explode like that. Usually, the most common cause is a blockage in the barrel. Could be dirt, or m&d or simply someone forgot to remove the boresighting device before they fired.

 

[Pek Kim Lui]

if gun is subjected high int. pressure... is there a pressure sleeve shrink fitted to give it a oomp? all gun barrel has their pressure curves, hardening n tempering w appropriate alloying shud handle the max pressure generated failing which a pressure. sleeve needs to be fitted. sleeve also reduces bulkiness of the barrel.
one hell of a tough job to shrink fit such length
was the fiber glass playing the role of pressure sleeve?.... I doubt so
no fiber glass or carbon fiber n epoxy can counteract the CrNiMo steel alloy during firing...... I stand corrected.

 

[Papsmearer]

if gun is subjected high int. pressure... is there a pressure sleeve shrink fitted to give it a oomp? all gun barrel has their pressure curves, hardening n tempering w appropriate alloying shud handle the max pressure generated failing which a pressure. sleeve needs to be fitted. sleeve also reduces bulkiness of the barrel.
one hell of a tough job to shrink fit such length
was the fiber glass playing the role of pressure sleeve?.... I doubt so
no fiber glass or carbon fiber n epoxy can counteract the CrNiMo steel alloy during firing...... I stand corrected.

I am not aware of such a thing as a main gun pressure sleeve. I know about thermal sleeves. But I fail to see how any external sleeve fitted to a main barrel can do anything to moderate the very high pressure from the firing of a round. Mostly, when a main gun is fired, the greatest pressure is generated at the base of the barrel where the firing chamber is and the round exits the firing chamber. As the round travels down the barrel, the pressure is spread more evenly. Gun barrels are designed to have absolutely no issues with barrel pressure, and in fact the current smoothbores have even better ballistic tolerance to high pressure. When we were firing 75mm rounds, the barrels on the AMX-13 were rifled, and that makes for wear and tear on the grooves. But the barrels themselves withstood the pressure very well, and they were over 25 years old with thousands of EFC put thru them. Its really amazing. Like I said, there might have been a blockage. Even a premature detonation does not cause the barrel to break into half. The thermal sleeves are designed to keep the barrel at the same temperature for the whole length of the barrel in the face of wind, cold, heat, etc on the barrel. I think this is what u are seeing here with the split fibres.

 

[Pek Kim Lui]

lol

I am not aware of such a thing as a main gun pressure sleeve. I know about thermal sleeves. But I fail to see how any external sleeve fitted to a main barrel can do anything to moderate the very high pressure from the firing of a round. Mostly, when a main gun is fired, the greatest pressure is generated at the base of the barrel where the firing chamber is and the round exits the firing chamber. As the round travels down the barrel, the pressure is spread more evenly. Gun barrels are designed to have absolutely no issues with barrel pressure, and in fact the current smoothbores have even better ballistic tolerance to high pressure. When we were firing 75mm rounds, the barrels on the AMX-13 were rifled, and that makes for wear and tear on the grooves. But the barrels themselves withstood the pressure very well, and they were over 25 years old with thousands of EFC put thru them. Its really amazing. Like I said, there might have been a blockage. Even a premature detonation does not cause the barrel to break into half. The thermal sleeves are designed to keep the barrel at the same temperature for the whole length of the barrel in the face of wind, cold, heat, etc on the barrel. I think this is what u are seeing here with the split fibres.

yOU ARE THE TANKEE, I am not. When the day comes that propellant can generate barrel pressure much much higher than currently known the barrel smiths may have to re visit the idea of shrink fitting the barrel......... is there now super propellant which can outgun 3 - 4 times the distance done by normal propellant?? Is such propellant highly desireable as it outguns shell using std propellant....or is this shitty idea in the light of rocket propulsion? Blue sky.........LOL

 

[JohnTan]

The SAF's tanks are much better than anything Turkey can field. If our armour units were operating in Syria, the oppies would be in deep shit.

 

[Papsmearer]

lol

yOU ARE THE TANKEE, I am not. When the day comes that propellant can generate barrel pressure much much higher than currently known the barrel smiths may have to re visit the idea of shrink fitting the barrel......... is there now super propellant which can outgun 3 - 4 times the distance done by normal propellant?? Is such propellant highly desireable as it outguns shell using std propellant....or is this shitty idea in the light of rocket propulsion? Blue sky.........LOL

The propellant technology has advanced quite a lot since the yom kippur war and since the 70s. There are propellants that are very powerful and u can pack a lot of them, but they are not for the tank. The tanks gun depends on many factors like effectiveness of recuperator and recoil system among other things. Once u pack more propellant into the round, or more powerful propellant, then u have other issues. Just the top of my head, a) The recoil system might not be able to handle it and the barrel will be stuck after one firing, or the recuperators might be damaged by the recoil b) The breechblock was designed to hold a certain pressure PSI, and after a few firings, it may be damaged and not open anymore due to more pressure from the propellant. c) You have to change the software in your ballistic computer because now, the ballistics of the round is different.

As a result of all of this, the propellants in the rounds have been more powerful, but only by a moderate degree and not a factor of 3-4 times. Probably not even a factor of 2 times. In the 1973 Yom Kippur war for example, the standard IDF tank round was the 105mm. The maximum effective range was maybe 2500m and up to 3000m in the hands of a good crew. Today that same tank with the same gun will have a high first hit probability at 3000m, and be effective all the way out to 3500m. the same can be said of the 120mm tank guns. Max range used to be around 3000m-3500m. Now, they can hit 4000m and even 4500m no problem. I think its IMI that makes an excellent 105mm round today. regarding your comment on rocket propulsion, In fact, today's 120mm rounds have the same or superior range to modern ATGW missiles. And at say 4000m, the AGTW flight time is something like 8-10 seconds, wheres the 120mm round will reach u in maybe 2-3 secs. Kinetic energy rounds are always faster then chemical propellant rounds like anti tank missiles.

 

[Papsmearer]

The SAF's tanks are much better than anything Turkey can field. If our armour units were operating in Syria, the oppies would be in deep shit.

i would say that they are indeed superior to the Turkish tanks. But the Turkish failure was not in their tanks per se, rather it was in their employment of their tanks on the battlefield. I guess too many armour officers got purged after the attempted coup.