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Serious Kishore M on China - you want a democratic China? Fuck you!

steffychun

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https://www.ft.com/content/1948448c-d5c8-4e3d-8e40-a670e69235c8

Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/1948448c-d5c8-4e3d-8e40-a670e69235c8

The writer, a distinguished fellow at the National University of Singapore, is author of ‘Has the West Lost It?’ and ‘Has China Won?’ T
Two decades into the 21st century, the main challenge it holds for the west has become clear: the return of China to centre stage. After managing phase 1 of China’s reform well from 1980 to 2020 — a period in which China fought no wars — the west is setting itself up for failure in phase 2. It is a failure resulting from three flawed assumptions. The first — and most deeply embedded in western minds — is that China cannot possibly be a good partner as long as it is ruled by the Chinese Communist party. Communism was supposed to have been swept into the dustbin of history after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the late 1980s. So, the argument goes, how can the world work with an oppressive party that rules against the wisdom of the Chinese people? Yet there is plenty of evidence to suggest most Chinese people do not perceive the CCP to be oppressive. In fact the latest Edelman Trust Barometer report suggests that support for the Chinese government is among the highest in the world.

A Chinese-American psychology researcher from Stanford University, Jean Fan, observed after visiting the country in 2019 that “China is changing . . . fast, in a way that is almost incomprehensible without seeing it in person. In contrast to America’s stagnation, China’s culture, self-concept and morale are being transformed at a rapid pace — mostly for the better.” Despite all this, few western minds can escape from the second flawed assumption: even if most Chinese people are happy with the Communist party, they and the rest of the world would be better off were they to switch immediately to a democratic system. Until the collapse of the Soviet Union and the subsequent implosion of the living standards of the Russian people, some Chinese may have believed in an instant transformation to democracy. Now, many have no doubt that a weak central government will result in massive chaos and suffering for the Chinese people. For evidence, they look to 4,000 years of Chinese history and, particularly, the so-called “century of humiliation” China suffered from 1842 to 1949. Moreover, a democratically elected government is not necessarily a liberal one. The democratically elected Indian prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru seized back the Portuguese colony of Goa in 1961, against the protests of then US president John F Kennedy and British prime minister Harold Macmillan. A democratic China would probably be even less patient in dealing with Hong Kong and Taiwan. A democratically elected Chinese government would also be loath to be seen as weak in dealing with separatist movements in Xinjiang — look at the Indian government’s crackdown in Kashmir.

Indeed none of China’s neighbours, not even the biggest democracies in Asia, are pushing for regime change in Beijing. A stable, predictable China, even as it becomes more assertive, is preferable to the alternative. The third flawed assumption may be the most dangerous: that a democratic China would inevitably accept western norms and practices, and happily become a member of the western-plus club, as Japan has done. That is not the cultural dynamic that is sweeping through Asia. Both Turkey and India are friends of the west. Yet Turkey has shifted from the secular ideology of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk to the Islamic one of Recep Tayyip Erdogan — and India has moved from the Anglophilic Nehru to the Hindu devotee Narendra Modi. We must acknowledge that a tsunami of de-westernisation is under way. Even more significantly, when Mr Erdogan announces the conversion of the Hagia Sophia to a mosque and Mr Modi resurrects a long-lost Hindu temple on a contested religious site, they are signalling a desire to return to pre-western cultural roots. Napoleon was right when he warned western nations to “let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world”. Even more than in Turkey and India, there is a potential volcano of anti-western sentiment waiting to explode in China. Currently, the only political force strong enough to hold down these forces of Chinese nationalism is the Chinese Communist party. The successor to the party could well be far less rational. Keep that in mind, instead of proceeding on autopilot with current policies towards China. The time has come for the west to do a complete reboot and reconsider all its fundamental premises on China. Western governments should learn to live and work with the Chinese leadership, instead of wishing for its transformation or early demise.
 

laksaboy

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Indeed none of China’s neighbours, not even the biggest democracies in Asia, are pushing for regime change in Beijing. A stable, predictable China, even as it becomes more assertive, is preferable to the alternative.

Let's listen to this doggie bark again when China gets regime changed. :cool:

It's a clash of values now, the economy and 'stability' was what caused communist China to launch a biological war on the world. You've fattened a tiger which now wants to eat you.
 

ChanRasjid

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https://www.ft.com/content/1948448c-d5c8-4e3d-8e40-a670e69235c8

Please use the sharing tools found via the share button at the top or side of articles. Copying articles to share with others is a breach of FT.com T&Cs and Copyright Policy. Email [email protected] to buy additional rights. Subscribers may share up to 10 or 20 articles per month using the gift article service. More information can be found here.
https://www.ft.com/content/1948448c-d5c8-4e3d-8e40-a670e69235c8

The writer, a distinguished fellow at the National University of Singapore, is author of ‘Has the West Lost It?’ and ‘Has China Won?’ T
Two decades into the 21st century, the main challenge it holds for the west has become clear: the return of China to centre stage. After managing phase 1 of China’s reform well from 1980 to 2020 — a period in which China fought no wars — the west is setting itself up for failure in phase 2. It is a failure resulting from three flawed assumptions. The first — and most deeply embedded in western minds — is that China cannot possibly be a good partner as long as it is ruled by the Chinese Communist party. Communism was supposed to have been swept into the dustbin of history after the collapse of the Soviet Union in the late 1980s. So, the argument goes, how can the world work with an oppressive party that rules against the wisdom of the Chinese people? Yet there is plenty of evidence to suggest most Chinese people do not perceive the CCP to be oppressive. In fact the latest Edelman Trust Barometer report suggests that support for the Chinese government is among the highest in the world.

A Chinese-American psychology researcher from Stanford University, Jean Fan, observed after visiting the country in 2019 that “China is changing . . . fast, in a way that is almost incomprehensible without seeing it in person. In contrast to America’s stagnation, China’s culture, self-concept and morale are being transformed at a rapid pace — mostly for the better.” Despite all this, few western minds can escape from the second flawed assumption: even if most Chinese people are happy with the Communist party, they and the rest of the world would be better off were they to switch immediately to a democratic system. Until the collapse of the Soviet Union and the subsequent implosion of the living standards of the Russian people, some Chinese may have believed in an instant transformation to democracy. Now, many have no doubt that a weak central government will result in massive chaos and suffering for the Chinese people. For evidence, they look to 4,000 years of Chinese history and, particularly, the so-called “century of humiliation” China suffered from 1842 to 1949. Moreover, a democratically elected government is not necessarily a liberal one. The democratically elected Indian prime minister Jawaharlal Nehru seized back the Portuguese colony of Goa in 1961, against the protests of then US president John F Kennedy and British prime minister Harold Macmillan. A democratic China would probably be even less patient in dealing with Hong Kong and Taiwan. A democratically elected Chinese government would also be loath to be seen as weak in dealing with separatist movements in Xinjiang — look at the Indian government’s crackdown in Kashmir.

Indeed none of China’s neighbours, not even the biggest democracies in Asia, are pushing for regime change in Beijing. A stable, predictable China, even as it becomes more assertive, is preferable to the alternative. The third flawed assumption may be the most dangerous: that a democratic China would inevitably accept western norms and practices, and happily become a member of the western-plus club, as Japan has done. That is not the cultural dynamic that is sweeping through Asia. Both Turkey and India are friends of the west. Yet Turkey has shifted from the secular ideology of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk to the Islamic one of Recep Tayyip Erdogan — and India has moved from the Anglophilic Nehru to the Hindu devotee Narendra Modi. We must acknowledge that a tsunami of de-westernisation is under way. Even more significantly, when Mr Erdogan announces the conversion of the Hagia Sophia to a mosque and Mr Modi resurrects a long-lost Hindu temple on a contested religious site, they are signalling a desire to return to pre-western cultural roots. Napoleon was right when he warned western nations to “let China sleep, for when she wakes, she will shake the world”. Even more than in Turkey and India, there is a potential volcano of anti-western sentiment waiting to explode in China. Currently, the only political force strong enough to hold down these forces of Chinese nationalism is the Chinese Communist party. The successor to the party could well be far less rational. Keep that in mind, instead of proceeding on autopilot with current policies towards China. The time has come for the west to do a complete reboot and reconsider all its fundamental premises on China. Western governments should learn to live and work with the Chinese leadership, instead of wishing for its transformation or early demise.
Please don't link to any articles that requires login/subscription to read. Nowadays, it is a privilege for a news site if people care to read any articles published over the internet.

Rasjid.
 

ChanRasjid

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I am Muslim and Chinese at the same time. I definitely is against China's treatment of the Uyghurs of Xinjiang. Of course it is all political. It is rare to find just governments in human history.

If you ask any mainland Chinese if they prefer democracy or the present system of centrally devolved authoritarian style of government, they would prefer democracy - it is common sense and human nature. The common people prefers freedom - freedom of expression and the freedom to question the actions of the government.

But the mainland Chinese is no different from me even though I am Muslim. They want a strong China. It is common sense no mainland Chinese love Pompei. You need to find a dog in mainland China if you want any living creature in China to have a great love of Pompei. Only the foolish Hong Kong people show a great love of Pompei.

What the Chinese want is democracy with Chinese characteristic, not the version of democracy marketed by Trump and Pompei.

Best regards,
Chan Rasjid.

"A Gift Of God And Isaac Newton"
"The Relativistic Mechanics of E=mc² Fails"; E=mc² is wrong.
"Is Mass Spectrometry Accurate?"; Penning trap cannot measure atomic mass; our nuclear physics wrong.
http://www.emc2fails.com
 

kaninabuchaojibye

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Loyal
I am Muslim and Chinese at the same time. I definitely is against China's treatment of the Uyghurs of Xinjiang. Of course it is all political. It is rare to find just governments in human history.

If you ask any mainland Chinese if they prefer democracy or the present system of centrally devolved authoritarian style of government, they would prefer democracy - it is common sense and human nature. The common people prefers freedom - freedom of expression and the freedom to question the actions of the government.

But the mainland Chinese is no different from me even though I am Muslim. They want a strong China. It is common sense no mainland Chinese love Pompei. You need to find a dog in mainland China if you want any living creature in China to have a great love of Pompei. Only the foolish Hong Kong people show a great love of Pompei.

What the Chinese want is democracy with Chinese characteristic, not the version of democracy marketed by Trump and Pompei.

Best regards,
Chan Rasjid.

"A Gift Of God And Isaac Newton"
"The Relativistic Mechanics of E=mc² Fails"; E=mc² is wrong.
"Is Mass Spectrometry Accurate?"; Penning trap cannot measure atomic mass; our nuclear physics wrong.
http://www.emc2fails.com
wow
well said
 

no_faith

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Chinese and muslim at the same time?
At different time you can be either chinese or muslim? Depend on mood?
Can you be a guy and woman at the same time? :biggrin:
 

Nice-Gook

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Will democracy change China ?...well it did not change Sinkieland which is practically 3rd China with its 75% Chinese population .The similarity between China external policies and how Singapore treats its neighbouring countries is astoundingly similar .The minority races within both countries fare no better .Might is right is the doctrine of both, or how to explain why should Sinkieland arm itself to the teeth .

The truth is the problem is its people not its governance .Despite every minute ,hour ,day ,month and yearly grumbling both the governments are favoured by both the people of the lands .Only Sinkieland's PAP is under the veneer of a democracy .Otherwise both are dictatorial where every sphere of lives is monitored and controlled .

Do I hear someone asking what about Chinese who craves for freedom and democracy ? Yes! there are plenty but still not the majority .I call them the converted who mostly had dump Chinese outlook and opt for western way of lives ,whether religious or by education .

Simply putting so long as Chinese chose to live like Chinese ,there will be Communism and dictatorship
 

laksaboy

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Asset
Will democracy change China ?...well it did not change Sinkieland which is practically 3rd China with its 75% Chinese population .The similarity between China external policies and how Singapore treats its neighbouring countries is astoundingly similar .The minority races within both countries fare no better .Might is right is the doctrine of both, or how to explain why should Sinkieland arm itself to the teeth .

The truth is the problem is its people not its governance .Despite every minute ,hour ,day ,month and yearly grumbling both the governments are favoured by both the people of the lands .Only Sinkieland's PAP is under the veneer of a democracy .Otherwise both are dictatorial where every sphere of lives is monitored and controlled .

Do I hear someone asking what about Chinese who craves for freedom and democracy ? Yes! there are plenty but still not the majority .I call them the converted who mostly had dump Chinese outlook and opt for western way of lives ,whether religious or by education .

Simply putting so long as Chinese chose to live like Chinese ,there will be Communism and dictatorship

Sinkieland is still a totalitarian shithole, though it pretends to be a 'democracy'. :rolleyes:
 

Nice-Gook

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Sinkieland is still a totalitarian shithole, though it pretends to be a 'democracy'. :rolleyes:
that precisely is my point ...but who makes Sinkiland dictatorial or the way it is ? it's populace of course .Meaning the 75% chinese .

Even if a million Chinese sinkies are deadly against PAP..it still wins every election because ,the magic mantra of maintaining 75% at all cost .
 

ChristJohnny

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On the hindsight ... if your populace is un-governable (low IQ), it doesn't matter if communist or democratic system is in the country. Look at African countries, look at Latin America, look at Middle East ... chaotic.

IQ and Race
IQ Map-1.png
 
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