Kevin Rudd told US it should be prepared to use force in China

[Ilovelamb]

Australia warned US to prepare to use force in China: report

Mon, Dec 06, 2010
AFP


SYDNEY - Former Australian leader Kevin Rudd told the United States it should be prepared to use force in China "if everything goes wrong", a diplomatic cable released by WikiLeaks reveals, reports said Monday.

In wide-ranging talks with US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, Rudd also described Chinese leaders as "paranoid" about Taiwan and Tibet and said that his push for a new Asia-Pacific body was designed to contain Chinese influence.

The memo detailing a March 2009 lunch conversation between Rudd, who was then prime minister, and Clinton in Washington states that the Australian leader described himself a "brutal realist on China".


It said Rudd, a Mandarin-speaking former diplomat who was once posted to Beijing, argued for "multilateral engagement with bilateral vigor" in China, The Sydney Morning Herald reported.

He called for "integrating China effectively into the international community and allowing it to demonstrate greater responsibility, all while also preparing to deploy force if everything goes wrong," the cable states.

The Australian government has refused the comment on the cable which reveals Clinton affirmed Washington's desire for a successful China, with "a rising standard of living and improving democracy at a pace Chinese leaders could tolerate".

The cable said the US wanted China to take greater responsibility in the global economic sphere, build a better social safety net for its citizens, and a better regulatory framework for the goods it manufactures.

But Clinton also addressed the challenges arising from Beijing's growing economic clout, asking, "How do you deal toughly with your banker?" it said.

Rudd also reviewed Chinese leaders for Clinton, comparing President Hu Jintao to his predecessor by saying he "is no Jiang Zemin" and opining that Hu's likely successor Xi Jinping could rise above his colleagues in part thanks to his family's military connections.

On Taiwan, Rudd said that the feelings of Chinese leaders were "sub- rational and deeply emotional" while hard-line policies on Tibet were designed to send messages to other ethnic minorities.

Rudd also revealed that his thinking behind his ambitious Asia-Pacific Community was mostly to ensure Chinese dominance in the region did not result in "an Asia without the United States".

 

[limpeh2]

Yea, so much for china-loving from kevin rudd. Behind closed doors among fellow angmos, he speaks like a typical double headed snake that all angmos are.

What's new?

 

[pallkia]

We cannot blame the angmo?Our Asian girls are so happy to make babies for Angmo,so eager to change our mother tongue to Angmo language,so eager to change to Angmo names,so crazy to convert to angmo religion!Just blame ourselves!

 

[123456787654321]

I foresee another 8-nation alliance against China.

 

[scoobyhoo]

just like the 'mama', in front of you, speak something warm and sweet, behind you, speak poison.

 

[KuanTi01]

Exactly my sentiments! He's a double-headed snake and an opportunist. He had shown his real colours towards China. Just because he speaks Mandarin doesn't mean his hosts cannot see through him. Telling the US to be prepared to use force on China is the same as telling the US to prepare for thousands of body bags.

 

[limpeh2]

just like the 'mama', in front of you, speak something warm and sweet, behind you, speak poison.

Well kelings wanna to believe they're black versions of angmo. Maybe some truth except kelings = more retarded & backwards, & angmo = more devious & personally touched by some devil.

Both get off indulging in underaged rape.

Exactly my sentiments! He's a double-headed snake and an opportunist. He had shown his real colours towards China. Just because he speaks Mandarin doesn't mean his hosts cannot see through him. Telling the US to be prepared to use force on China is the same as telling the US to prepare for thousands of body bags.

That's why I always say, you cannot trust any forms of angmo. Not even 1%. They'll always take the sides of fellow angmos against a non-angmo & view all non-angmos as expendable (as discovered by the many used multiple-STD ridden SPGs walking around with torn vaginas). Like wild animals, they can turn on you at any time when it suits them. To PRC's benefit, they saw through Krudd long ago & didn't budge from some trade policies towards arsetralia, pissing krudd off very much.

People should stay in angmo country & try actually living & working alongside these savages to really know them. Angmos're tribalistic & innately hyper-violent - a virulent form of NEGative GROwth themselves.

Most SPGs learn things the hard way when they try to fit into the angmo society they migrated to, places like arsetralia & nz. Better have enough $$ to open business & be boss, otherwise, prepare to suffer as 2nd class pariah.

 

[KuanTi01]

Back here, Ang Mos get the royal treatment in terms of service. When u r in Ang Mo country, u get the refugee treatment. So wake up to the real world!

 

[ivebert]

This 2 headed snake

Can speak Chinese but fucks China and wags his tail when he sees his yankee master

 

[longbow]

No idea what he is refering to.

If he is refering to military force then he is an idiot. Short of a nuclear option, no way US can have any military advantage against China. I doubt if it can even tackle India!

It is the same old Australian dream of being part of the Anglo Saxon world when reality is that they are smack in Asia and its economy is linked to China

 

[londoncabby]

No idea what he is refering to.

Short of a nuclear option, no way US can have any military advantage against China. I doubt if it can even tackle India!

Wah laughing out loud you very funny leh USA Military still have more power than China

But thanks for the laugh

 

[longbow]

No idea what he is refering to.

If he is refering to military force then he is an idiot. Short of a nuclear option, no way US can have any military advantage against China. I doubt if it can even tackle India!

It is the same old Australian dream of being part of the Anglo Saxon world when reality is that they are smack in Asia and its economy is linked to China

 

[longbow]

US can barely sustain against 3rd world country like Iraq with 20M people and 20 years of war and sanctions.

They have no means to go after a much larger country. Remember home turf advantage. I said no use of nuclear weapons. Of course if you want to use that then it is mutual destruction.

I doubt if they can even win a ground war against Pakistan.

Wah laughing out loud you very funny leh USA Military still have more power than China

But thanks for the laugh

 

[tanwahtiu]

That's why I always say, you cannot trust any forms of angmo. Not even 1%. They'll always take the sides of fellow angmos against a non-angmo & view all non-angmos as expendable (as discovered by the many used multiple-STD ridden SPGs walking around with torn vaginas). Like wild animals, they can turn on you at any time when it suits them. To PRC's benefit, they saw through Krudd long ago & didn't budge from some trade policies towards arsetralia, pissing krudd off very much.

People should stay in angmo country & try actually living & working alongside these savages to really know them. Angmos're tribalistic & innately hyper-violent - a virulent form of NEGative GROwth themselves.

Most SPGs learn things the hard way when they try to fit into the angmo society they migrated to, places like arsetralia & nz. Better have enough $$ to open business & be boss, otherwise, prepare to suffer as 2nd class pariah.


Angmoh like to Play God, and to Play God you become 2nd to none and who dares to go against you when you play God.

These cpc (corn, pea, carrot is ALL they eat most of their meals) people say their God (borrowed from Judaism) is a angry God and therefore Play God when they did they have rights to be angry (their God is) too.

Recommended reading this book if you think of migrating to angmoh countries or do biz with them. They will meet you at cul de sac if you want to setle score with them.

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/342320.The_Angry_Island

"The default setting of England is anger. The English are naturally, congenitally, collectively and singularly, livid much of the time. In between the incoherent bellowing of the terraces and the pursed, rigid eye-rolling of the commuter carriage, they reach the end of their tethers and the thin end of their wedges. They're incensed, incandescent, splenetic, prickly, touchy and fractious.

They can be mildly annoyed, really annoyed and, most scarily, not remotely annoyed. They sit apart on their half of a damply disappointing little island, nursing and picking at their irritations. Perhaps aware that they're living on top of a keg of fulminating fury, the English have, throughout their history, come up with hundreds of ingenious and bizarre ways to diffuse anger or transform it into something benign.

Good manners and queues, roundabouts and garden sheds, and almost every game ever invented from tennis to bridge. They've built things, discovered stuff, made puddings, written hymns and novels, and for people who don't like to talk much, they have come up with the most minutely nuanced and replete language ever spoken - just so there'll be no misunderstandings. The English itch inside their own skins. They feel foreign in their own country and run naked through their own heads. They are often admirable but rarely loveable. An Englishman's greatest achievement is in resisting his national inclinations and not going crazy with an axe in a cul-de-sac. This book hunts down the causes and the results of being the Angry Island.

 

[longbow]

However if he meant play hardball with the Chinese politically then by all means.

I seriously doubt if Rudd was refering to military force. That just sounds too stupid.

Must take all this diplomatic cable with pinch of salt. You can gather that US has 4 big issues in all the cables released so far:

1) War in Afghanistan/Iraq - they have troops on the ground
2) North Korea - troops at DMZ
3) Iran - going nuclear - strong Israeli lobby + Saudi/Middle East lobby
4) Desparately trying to get a feel on the politics/power change within China - only country that could challenge the US in its global political and military dominance.

For China - that is what they asked MM and Rudd - who are up and coming politcos within China. I suspect that the US has little intelligence on the inner workings in Beijing. MM did give some good feedback.

Everything else of not important.

 

[londoncabby]

US can barely sustain against 3rd world country like Iraq with 20M people and 20 years of war and sanctions.

They have no means to go after a much larger country. Remember home turf advantage. I said no use of nuclear weapons. Of course if you want to use that then it is mutual destruction.

I doubt if they can even win a ground war against Pakistan.

USA already declare victory in IRAQ what. Transfer authority and now advisor only. You sleeping?

Afghanistan is problem now defeat always faction then they retrain in nearby Iran/Pakistan and return. Slow progress in Afghanistan.

USA of course many times more powerful than China: 2000 aircraft, more ships better and more technological than China, better strategy and more advanced spaced based weapons and lockheed martin, other contractors beefing up cyber based weapons systems.

Somemore what is China's annual defense budget? 50Billion to USA 500 Billion multiply by 10 same as how many more aircraft carrier USA has.

Of course China's fiscal finances very good compare to USA though

 

[limpeh2]

Angmoh like to Play God, and to Play God you become 2nd to none and who dares to go against you when you play God.

These cpc (corn, pea, carrot is ALL they eat most of their meals) people say their God (borrowed from Judaism) is a angry God and therefore Play God when they did they have rights to be angry (their God is) too.

Fact is angmos're an emotionally unstable & backward race.
An "angry" god? Point of view. They actually worship the arch devil.

USA already declare victory in IRAQ what. Transfer authority and now advisor only.

Declared victory is not the same as actually being victorious.

US/coalition forces have over 4500 KIAs & 30000+ WIAs & increasing, since the "mission accomplished" declaration by an idiot son & ex-potusa, and still needed the stop-loss policy to maintain remaining ground troop size.

And you call that "victory"? You in a coma or just merely uneducated, my genetically regressive friend?

USA of course many times more powerful than China: 2000 aircraft, more ships better and more technological than China, better strategy and more advanced spaced based weapons and lockheed martin, other contractors beefing up cyber based weapons systems.

If usa & friends were that confident in their superior military prowess in a war against the prc, they'd not be trying to "contain" & "subvert" the prc the way they're right now... or even try to maintain their military budget which is untenable & eroding what's left of their already shattered economy.

 

[KuanTi01]

US can barely sustain against 3rd world country like Iraq with 20M people and 20 years of war and sanctions.

They have no means to go after a much larger country. Remember home turf advantage. I said no use of nuclear weapons. Of course if you want to use that then it is mutual destruction.

I doubt if they can even win a ground war against Pakistan.

Don't need to look too far! Vietnam also proved too hot to handle and the US got burnt!

 

[ThePlen]

everyone is being pressured by america. only china has the balls to stand up against them

 

[londoncabby]

Fact is angmos're an emotionally unstable & backward race.
An "angry" god? Point of view. They actually worship the arch devil.

Declared victory is not the same as actually being victorious.

US/coalition forces have over 4500 KIAs & 30000+ WIAs & increasing, since the "mission accomplished" declaration by an idiot son & ex-potusa, and still needed the stop-loss policy to maintain remaining ground troop size.

And you call that "victory"? You in a coma or just merely uneducated, my genetically regressive friend?

If usa & friends were that confident in their superior military prowess in a war against the prc, they'd not be trying to "contain" & "subvert" the prc the way they're right now... or even try to maintain their military budget which is untenable & eroding what's left of their already shattered economy.

The end result is the USA won in Iraq and I think you need to revisit the concept of "war" - people die. There are many interpretations and views on this topic but history has already recorded the Iraq war as messy, problematic, very unpopular in the US itself, expensive, unnecessary,but in the end it resulted in the US achieving its goals - victory, transition and pullout.

Your argument is plausible towards Afghanistan where the US might not be "victorious" or "declare victory" in this case but then the Soviets failed in this regard as well after 10 years. We are still in a wait and see mode for Afghanistan but it looks unlikely the USA will be successful.

A war with the PRC is a moot point - since the PRC and the USA have a deterrent threat against each other, hence containment in the conventional sense. The US still have vastly more firepower than the PRC so in a conventional war the US should of course decimate the PRC.

All your points are criticisms. Perhaps you should contact the Rand Corp and tell them your reservations and I am sure you will get a response. You might also contact the Republican Caucus and tell them the US defense budget of 500 billion is untenable but then they might point out that its been that large for many, many years. The Republicans cant wait to award more fat contracts to American Defense Contractors and spend even more, but then again the US does have the World's Reserve Currency so they afford to print US$$$ to pay their debts - the only nation in the world able to do so while other nations pay the price.

I am not sure this will alleviate the PRC but their military is making Asean members very nervous indeed who are running to the USA for help once again.