Serious Joe Teo : Learning Malay language should be compulsory for all Singaporeans

[Rogue Trader]

It makes even less sense to learn any bahasa now that Alexis Hotel has been shut down

 

[halsey02]

Malay can only be used in Malaysia. It is useless in Indonesia.

Indonesia has many languages & their common language is Bahasa Indonesia & have traces of Malay in it, but words use are different. For instance, many years ago, I ask an Indonesian where the toilet was, " Tandas, di mana?"..he gave me a quizzed look, so I said "pass water"...he brighten up and said " WC"!. oh! I thought. WC was the word, we used , when we were young, when we ask where the toilet was. WC , they inherited that from the Dutch. WC= Water Closet.

Even Tagalog has traces of Malay, Salamat, Payong ( for umbrella), Mahal for love, for cheap, or cheap love...ha ha ha & many other,

 

[yellowarse]

Indonesia has many languages & their common language is Bahasa Indonesia & have traces of Malay in it, but words use are different. For instance, many years ago, I ask an Indonesian where the toilet was, " Tandas, di mana?"..he gave me a quizzed look, so I said "pass water"...he brighten up and said " WC"!. oh! I thought. WC was the word, we used , when we were young, when we ask where the toilet was. WC , they inherited that from the Dutch. WC= Water Closet.

Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Melayu are both standard variants of Malay, and are generally mutually intelligible. Much like BrE and AmE, or Taiwanese guoyu and PRC's putonghua.

Of course for such a large archipelago there are some differences in local terminology and vocabulary, even from island to island, but most native speakers have no problem making the transition. Just like an American would understand a Briton when he says 'pavement' ('sidewalk' in AmE), or a Taiwanese would know that 'potato' is tudou on the mainland (malingshu in Taiwan).

 

[halsey02]

Bahasa Indonesia and Bahasa Melayu are both standard variants of Malay, and are generally mutually intelligible. Much like BrE and AmE, or Taiwanese guoyu and PRC's putonghua.

Of course for such a large archipelago there are some differences in local terminology and vocabulary, even from island to island, but most native speakers have no problem making the transition. Just like an American would understand a Briton when he says 'pavement' ('sidewalk' in AmE), or a Taiwanese would know that 'potato' is tudou on the mainland (malingshu in Taiwan).

But the average Singaporeans don't know left from right or any variations in languages, unless it is taught by the PAP & used only in PAP land also known as Singapore. Many here who professes to know & speak Chinese, don't know the variations in "guoyu" or "putonghua". One is National Language & the other, Common Language. As I have said their world is like a frog in the well, SINGAPORE!.

There are 13 variations of Cantonese, I learnt this from a Jesuit Priests, who spent 1/2 his lifetime in Southern China, I speak 'putong Cantonese" & my mother Cantonese of "toishanese". My point is, the people here are very brainwashed by the PAP, that, they think, what they had been taught by the PAP , is the best in the world & that is the world.

 

[yellowarse]

There are 13 variations of Cantonese, I learnt this from a Jesuit Priests, who spent 1/2 his lifetime in Southern China, I speak 'putong Cantonese" & my mother Cantonese of "toishanese". My point is, the people here are very brainwashed by the PAP, that, they think, what they had been taught by the PAP , is the best in the world & that is the world.

Agree that the average Singaporean is a frog in the well. I've seen many Singlish speakers struggle to communicate properly in standard English with foreigners and native speakers. Sad, considering that we're at the crossroads – between North & South, East & West – and hence best placed to understand the various varieties of English being spoken around the world.

Case in point: many Americans are flummoxed when they encounter the term 'loo' or 'lavatory', or even the phrase 'I'm pissed' (meaning 'drunk') when they tour England. Most old-timer Singaporeans schooled in English would have no problem with these trans-Atlantic befuddlements. Or even Antipodean varieties. Try ordering a hot dog in New Zealand and you'd be given a plain sausage! A 'chav' in England would be called a 'bogan' in Australia.

Yes, there are many variants of Cantonese (yueyu), but the standard prestige dialect is based on that of Guangzhou (Canton in the old days), hence it is also known as guangzhouhua. It is also the dialect used in Cantonese opera. Up till the 70s, Guangzhou Cantonese and HK (and Macau) Cantonese were literally identical, owing to the continuing flow of migrants into the colony and constant 2-way cultural interactions between the two localities. (Most of the Canto opera actors and early film actors in HK came from the mainland.)

Today, HK Cantonese is sprinkled liberally with borrowed English expressions and increasingly pidginized by poor pronunciaiton (e.g. failure to differentiate between ending 'n' & 'ng', as in 'pun yau' instead of 'pung yau' for 'friend') especially among the young. Guangzhou Cantonese is purer, but has become a little more Mandarinized because of 70 years of commie rule. So there's a divergence ... but well, language is a living thing.

 

[theblackhole]

the whole world is adulterated lah
the best is to return to the inland unpolluted by tourism and
learn from the roots - but we cant understand what they are talking

 

[halsey02]

Agree that the average Singaporean is a frog in the well. I've seen many Singlish speakers struggle to communicate properly in standard English with foreigners and native speakers. Sad, considering that we're at the crossroads – between North & South, East & West – and hence best placed to understand the various varieties of English being spoken around the world.

Case in point: many Americans are flummoxed when they encounter the term 'loo' or 'lavatory', or even the phrase 'I'm pissed' (meaning 'drunk') when they tour England. Most old-timer Singaporeans schooled in English would have no problem with these trans-Atlantic befuddlements. Or even Antipodean varieties. Try ordering a hot dog in New Zealand and you'd be given a plain sausage! A 'chav' in England would be called a 'bogan' in Australia.

Yes, there are many variants of Cantonese (yueyu), but the standard prestige dialect is based on that of Guangzhou (Canton in the old days), hence it is also known as guangzhouhua. It is also the dialect used in Cantonese opera. Up till the 70s, Guangzhou Cantonese and HK (and Macau) Cantonese were literally identical, owing to the continuing flow of migrants into the colony and constant 2-way cultural interactions between the two localities. (Most of the Canto opera actors and early film actors in HK came from the mainland.)

Today, HK Cantonese is sprinkled liberally with borrowed English expressions and increasingly pidginized by poor pronunciaiton (e.g. failure to differentiate between ending 'n' & 'ng', as in 'pun yau' instead of 'pung yau' for 'friend') especially among the young. Guangzhou Cantonese is purer, but has become a little more Mandarinized because of 70 years of commie rule. So there's a divergence ... but well, language is a living thing.

Yes, language is a living thing, the PAP had succeeded into killing languages & raise a befuddled generation of no-where language speakers, that does not even have any cultural attachment, thus, we have a people who is devoid of any identity. They go abroad, they have no culture & customs of theirs to show, all they know is the culture they are taught from their textbooks, Social Study. (好工民). Anything from what they are taught, they don't know..for they were told once to go home & slap their ancestors, tell their parents not to speak any Chinese dialects or any other dialects, other than the languages , they were taught in school.

Within the major languages we have here, there are sub-languages, & each with their "putonghua", & each sub-language have their own customs & micro-culture.

Take for instance, I discovered some time back, that even crockeries the Chinese people uses are different...for example, the Cantonese rice bowl is different size from the Teo Chew's & Hokkien's & the Hainanese, even the soup bowls, the chop sticks etc.. I stumbled into this, when there was a shop near Tregganu Street Chinatown that sells porcelain things only, they have all sorts of bowls, spoons, etc. ( that shop, closed by Urban Renewal)

My point is....our children these days, least they be, a Malay, an Indian, a Chinese, a Peranakan or Eurasian, have lost their individual racial identity & culture...thanks to the PAP policies.

 

[glockman]

We all know LKY when got kicked out of Malaysia, he chose out of desperation:

a) Malay as national language
b) Malay as a President
c) Sarong Kebaya as national dress
d) Islamic crescent in national flag
e) National anthem in Melayu

This gahmen now as it is is famous for chopping and changing to suit the times...how about now change everything to Chinese?

Changing to the Chinese language is more appropriate since we have more than 70% chinks. In any country, the common language (hence "National Language") should be the language spoken by the majority of the people. Not some irrelevant language chosen to appease another country.

 

[yellowarse]

My point is....our children these days, least they be, a Malay, an Indian, a Chinese, a Peranakan or Eurasian, have lost their individual racial identity & culture...thanks to the PAP policies.

It's a schizophrenic approach adopted by the PAP for political ends.

On the one hand, you have the 'Speak Mandarin' Campaign and banning of dialect programmes on state-owned media which largely accounted for the alienation of younger Chinese from their cultural roots, which are closely tied to their dialect group and ancestral clan. You also have the dismantling of kampungs and fragmentation of minority ethnic communities by relocating them to HDB estates along strict racial quotas. The smaller minorities like the Eurasians and Indians were always already at risk of deculturation by virtue of their small numbers. But the Malays were badly hit, not just facing dilution of their communal culture, but also economic alienation because of the elitist nature of our education system and neo-liberal economic policies.

All this might still be good if the aim was to forge a single Singaporean race or culture, much like Brazil or the US which are still melting pot works in progress.

But no, the PAP had to play divide and rule. The HDB racial quota, self-help groups, GRCs, the farcical reserved minority presidential election, the lack of Malays in certain sensitive vocations in the army and over-representation in police NS, etc all serve to heighten and entrench the sense of racial differences in the people. And then came the wholesale importation of immigrants of all stripes – further diluting our ethnic identities and cultures, creating a siege mentality among local-borns, reducing inter-ethnic trust, and making each group retreat and cling on to its cultural and linguistic vestiges.

So what do we have? A bunch of mutually suspicious peoples who have veered far away from the cozy inter-racial relations of the early years, and, yet are, sadly, rootless, like cultural flotsam. They speak a mangled form of English, can't utter a complete sentence in Chinese or Malay or Tamil without inserting an English word here and there, don't know any dialects, and are absolutely clueless about their ancestral customs and practices.

In the US deep south, people at least still have strong Baptist roots, conservative libertarian values and an allegiance to the Confederacy.

 

[borom]

,,,,,,,,,,,Even Tagalog has traces of Malay, Salamat, Payong ( for umbrella), Mahal for love, for cheap, or cheap love...ha ha ha & many other,

Agree , Thai also have common words with Malay like
Come=mari (malay), mani (Thai มานี่)
This =ini (malay),anni (Thai อันนี้)
soap=sabun (malay), sabu (thai สบู่ )
king=raja (malay), racha (Thai ราชา)
minister=menteri (malay), ratakmontri (Thai รัฐมนตรี)

For PAP ,language is for business (or making monies) ,not culture or humanity-look at the way they attempt to kill Chinese dialects and even prohibit Chinese dialect names in schools and Chinese dialect movies. $$ is top priority for PAP-see how much they pay themselves!

 

[spotter542]

What's next ?
Getting circumcised ? o_O

 

[Victory2016]

We all know LKY when got kicked out of Malaysia, he chose out of desperation:

a) Malay as national language
b) Malay as a President
c) Sarong Kebaya as national dress
d) Islamic crescent in national flag
e) National anthem in Melayu

This gahmen now as it is is famous for chopping and changing to suit the times...how about now change everything to Chinese?

All the items mentioned above were chosen in 1959 when we attained self government, and not in 1963 when we were forced to leave Malaysia. LKY then wanted the Malays to feel that they were part of the new PAP governed state.

Military commands switched from English to Malay in 1967 when we were building up the armed forces. They should have used Hebrew rather than Malay, after all, they even stole an Israeli Marching tune for our parades......which all of us are very familiar with, but did not know its kosher origin.......

 

[scroobal]

Agree bro. Truly frog in the well.

But the average Singaporeans don't know left from right or any variations in languages, unless it is taught by the PAP & used only in PAP land also known as Singapore. Many here who professes to know & speak Chinese, don't know the variations in "guoyu" or "putonghua". One is National Language & the other, Common Language. As I have said their world is like a frog in the well, SINGAPORE!.

There are 13 variations of Cantonese, I learnt this from a Jesuit Priests, who spent 1/2 his lifetime in Southern China, I speak 'putong Cantonese" & my mother Cantonese of "toishanese". My point is, the people here are very brainwashed by the PAP, that, they think, what they had been taught by the PAP , is the best in the world & that is the world.

 

[scroobal]

Good post.

Its easier for an Indonesian to understand a Chinese who speaks pasar Melayu than an American trying grasp what an Scot or an Irish are trying to say. No just the accent but the vocabulary as well.

Agree that the average Singaporean is a frog in the well. I've seen many Singlish speakers struggle to communicate properly in standard English with foreigners and native speakers. Sad, considering that we're at the crossroads – between North & South, East & West – and hence best placed to understand the various varieties of English being spoken around the world.

Case in point: many Americans are flummoxed when they encounter the term 'loo' or 'lavatory', or even the phrase 'I'm pissed' (meaning 'drunk') when they tour England. Most old-timer Singaporeans schooled in English would have no problem with these trans-Atlantic befuddlements. Or even Antipodean varieties. Try ordering a hot dog in New Zealand and you'd be given a plain sausage! A 'chav' in England would be called a 'bogan' in Australia.

Yes, there are many variants of Cantonese (yueyu), but the standard prestige dialect is based on that of Guangzhou (Canton in the old days), hence it is also known as guangzhouhua. It is also the dialect used in Cantonese opera. Up till the 70s, Guangzhou Cantonese and HK (and Macau) Cantonese were literally identical, owing to the continuing flow of migrants into the colony and constant 2-way cultural interactions between the two localities. (Most of the Canto opera actors and early film actors in HK came from the mainland.)

Today, HK Cantonese is sprinkled liberally with borrowed English expressions and increasingly pidginized by poor pronunciaiton (e.g. failure to differentiate between ending 'n' & 'ng', as in 'pun yau' instead of 'pung yau' for 'friend') especially among the young. Guangzhou Cantonese is purer, but has become a little more Mandarinized because of 70 years of commie rule. So there's a divergence ... but well, language is a living thing.

 

[Victory2016]

There are 13 variations of Cantonese, I learnt this from a Jesuit Priests, who spent 1/2 his lifetime in Southern China, I speak 'putong Cantonese" & my mother Cantonese of "toishanese". My point is, the people here are very brainwashed by the PAP, that, they think, what they had been taught by the PAP , is the best in the world & that is the world.

It's sad that even without government intervention, minor Dialects would go the way of the Dodo.
Take the Si Yip/Toishan dialect for example- even in Malaysia, no Cantonese really bother to learn, much less speak this dialect anymore...... except for this phrase:

Ride Horse cross Sea : CareMaKorHoi ....................hehehe
(Nei Hweu Hiang Ma?)