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Chitchat Jamus Lim plays the idiotic minimum wage card

nirvarq

Alfrescian (InfP)
Generous Asset
It's so simple we should all have minimum wage except maids and bangalas workers. Why not ? We still practice 'death sentence' don't we ?! Uniquely Singapore, given the currency rate difference you want to bet will the maids and bangladeshis workers still come ? lol...............


It is not that the MiWs will not help it's own people it's about : To Conquer/rule is to divide or make you weak/poor and living in fear ! Wake up fools !

They (the oppies) should be arguing about the one most important thing ie why are we using a system that creates this atrocity of 83 seats for 60%, 10 seats for 40%.

Simply put 60% is not 2/3 votes and not a blank cheque at the least. Meaning policies should not be passed unless you have 2/3 votes base. This is equality law, fairness and logic.

This should be straighten out first or else anything argued is pointless, you know why. There are legal international, arbitrary laws and organizations.
 
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Scrooball (clone)

Alfrescian
Loyal
This forum is full of retards. If u believe in minimum wage, u deserve a kick in your balls.

I sure as hell am not going to pay $3 for a cup of coffee at a lousy coffeeshop. U suckers can go ahead.
 

Confuseous

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Tharman had to put a stop to more idiotic statements from his team.

TIN PEI LING: Will minimum wage amount revert to the previous amount after the bad times. (Words to the effect).

JAMUS: (SHOCKED LOOK) : No, that will amount to pulling the carpets under their feet.

GENERAL GAN: Do you have statistics to prove your case?

JAMUS: Yes, there are lots of paper on this matter. The NUS, one of the top universities in the world has plenty of papers to prove that.

Running out of ammunition, Janil (the no-NS Deputy Speaker) with crossed legs spoke to interrupt that some parliamentary procedure
was not being followed. In so doing, he did not ask for prior permission to speak.
 

bobby

Alfrescian
Loyal
What's the point of having a super big NTUC in the country headed by Gen Ng Chee Bye but the union chief does not support minimum wage ?
 

knowwhatyouwantinlife

Alfrescian
Loyal
It's so simple we should all have minimum wage except maids and bangalas workers. Why not ? We still practice 'death sentence' don't we ?! Uniquely Singapore, given the currency rate difference you want to bet will the maids and bangladeshis workers still come ? lol...............


It is not that the MiWs will not help it's own people it's about : To Conquer/rule is to divide or make you weak/poor and living in fear ! Wake up fools !

They (the oppies) should be arguing about the one most important thing ie why are we using a system that creates this atrocity of 83 seats for 60%, 10 seats for 40%.

Simply put 60% is not 2/3 votes and not a blank cheque at the least. Meaning policies should not be passed unless you have 2/3 votes base. This is equality law, fairness and logic.

This should be straighten out first or else anything argued is pointless, you know why. There are legal international, arbitrary laws and organizations.
Totally agree...so if my employer watzapp me at 9pm when I'm officially off work at 6pm what happens? In europe the employer can be charged with harassment in us sued for overtime..like what the Canadian dr mentioned sgreans are just despicable and greedy assholes
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
in theory, it sounds altruistic and “compassionate and fair”. in practice, with years of evidence and consequences, minimum wage has been a disaster. cases in point: seattle, sf, sj, l.a. i can go into details for each of these cases, but i’ve already elaborated on its aftermath in seattle and sf in another thread. will not repeat it here. go look it up. horrible results.
 

Annunaki

Alfrescian
Loyal
Jamus giving my fat darling Kirsten Han another orgasm with his performance in parliament !

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5F2D01DA-570F-44CE-91E8-B10D4106909E.jpeg
 

Rogue Trader

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Tharman had to put a stop to more idiotic statements from his team.

TIN PEI LING: Will minimum wage amount revert to the previous amount after the bad times. (Words to the effect).

JAMUS: (SHOCKED LOOK) : No, that will amount to pulling the carpets under their feet.

GENERAL GAN: Do you have statistics to prove your case?

JAMUS: Yes, there are lots of paper on this matter. The NUS, one of the top universities in the world has plenty of papers to prove that.

Running out of ammunition, Janil (the no-NS Deputy Speaker) with crossed legs spoke to interrupt that some parliamentary procedure
was not being followed. In so doing, he did not ask for prior permission to speak.
All this is just "you say I say they say" hogwash until someone with real business and economic data does some financial modelling.

There are too many moving parts to definitely claim what min wage will do to the sg economy
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
Don't we have minimum wage already? S pass, e pass, whatever pass all have minimum guarantee by PAP. Sinkie no have, lugi sia. :unsure:
 

Hypocrite-The

Alfrescian
Loyal
Netizens slam union leaders’ responses to WP’s minimum wage proposal, say it was meant for all sectors not “some sectors” - The Online Citizen
Aldgra F.

From the left: Workers' Party MPs Pritam Singh, Jamus Lim, Leon Perera
The Workers’ Party’s (WP) proposal of setting up a universal minimum wage of S$1,300 had earned criticism by the union leaders recently.
Some union leaders told TODAY that the lowest salaries in some sectors are already above S$1,300, adding that the formulated policies were based on data and the National Trades Union Congress’ (NTUC) leaders’ knowledge of ground sentiments.
Arasu Duraisamy, who is a general secretary of the Singapore Port Workers’ Union, claimed that the union’s proposals will not be accepted by business leaders if the proposals were formed based on “words from the man on the ground”.
Moreover, the Healthcare Services Employees Union’s president K Thanaletchmi indicated WP’s minimum wage proposal could “drag everybody downwards” as workers with higher salaries may end up having their salaries reduced to S$1,300.
“On what basis do they think S$1,300 is enough? In today’s day and age, I think S$1,300 is too low. I am kind of baffled by the proposition made by WP. Is it truly by data and statistics?” said Ms Thanaletchmi.
She added that the union has been engaging with the hospitals to increase the sector’s lowest-paid workers’ wages to S$1,500, which will be done via job redesign and the upskilling of its staff.
Meanwhile, some of them condemned WP’s Associate Professor Jamus Lim’s remarks “folksy wisdoms and beliefs” in Parliament.
To recap, NTUC deputy secretary-general Koh Poh Koon had argued that WP’s proposed policy of setting a universal minimum wage could lead to unemployment as businesses may face unsustainable higher costs.
Dr Koh claimed that the tripartite partners already look at data in their discussions, and it showed that the practical considerations of implementing minimum wage may be challenging.
He also brought up Hokkien idioms used by a union member to illustrate this and the colloquial wisdom lying behind these phrases.
To this, Associate Professor Lim responded that WP’s proposal is based on studies that show that a minimum wage does not lead to an increase in unemployment, and is not based on “folksy wisdom and beliefs of labour union leaders”.
Following that, NTUC assistant secretary-general Cham Hui Fong told TODAY that the tripartite partners’ decision of implementing a sectoral approach to increase the low-wage workers’ salaries were made based on union leaders’ research of how minimum wage is applied in other countries’ jurisdictions.
However, she added that different union leaders in various sectors disagree on the appropriate wage level.
“To say that it is totally baseless, based on our wisdom and beliefs, cannot be right. How can we do things this way? I mean there are 6,000 union leaders, you mean they are all fools?” said Ms Cham.
“I think everybody is subject to your own views, that one we can respect, but please do not belittle the unions,” she continued.
Commenting on Assoc Prof Lim’s remarks, Sanjeev Tiwari, a general secretary of the Amalgamated Union of Public Employees, branded his remarks as “over-generalisation” and that it discredits all the hard work of union leaders.
“Yes, we all want wages to increase, but that comes with some compromises,” said Mr Tiwari.
He explained that employers’ profit-making agenda requires every decision-maker to consider all factors, complemented with data, and then to come up with a solution.
Netizens point out WP’s minimum wage proposal was meant for all sectors, not some sectors
Over on social media, a handful of netizens questioned the union leaders on the minimum wage of low-income workers from other sectors.
Penning their thoughts in the comments section of TODAY’s Facebook post, they pointed out that WP’s proposal of setting up a universal minimum wage of S$1,300 was meant to help low-wage workers from all sectors, not to set “a maximum wage”.
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Some netizens opined that the union leaders’ responses only revealed their “folksy wisdom”.
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While others questioned the union leaders’ contribution to workers, as they seem to only support employers.
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nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
Think of it this way.

If somebody's business cannot operate if it has to pay minimum wage, then what kind of business is that?

So lousy that cannot pay the workers to live?

Then what? These workers work to subsidize the business?

Do society a favor. Close the business.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
it's moot when majority of small businesses have closed due to the triple whammy: minimum wage, rent increase and pandamic. before the pandamic, many restaurants and small businesses were already closing in the bay area. one of them was my favorite diner "prolific oven". i could get my comfort meals there, from breakfast to dinner. unlike new jersey and new york, there are not too many breakfast-to-supper diners in the bay area. before minimum wage became city-wide, then county-wide, then state-wide policy, waiters and service staff were making $12 an hour. customers in bay area who go to "western" eateries tip heavily to the tune of 18% to 20% on average on top of the final tab plus tax. at chink restaurants tips by chink customers are a paltry 5% to 10% (6.9% on average) while angmoh customers at any restaurant usually tip at least 15%, which is the typical rate. with minimum wage, a flat service rate is added as part of the bill. this causes majority of customers to simply not tip anymore. there are still some customers like me who add tips to the service fee, but because of confusion as to how much to add separately, the practice is dying off. for example, do a customer give an additional 5% or 10% or 15%? if a goodhearted customer gives an additional 5% on the invoice or bill, it looks very cheapskate. so he gives 10%, and it still looks cheapskate. thus, he gives 15%. and that's 15% more on top of the 18% service charge imposed on the bill. and then, on the next visit, menus are new, prices shoot up, and the favorite waitress is gone. fired. laid off. let go. the eatery cannot keep 12 servers, so it lays off 6. and then, service sucks as customers keep waiting to place orders and pay the bill at both ends of the dining sexperience. paying the bill becums a constant calculator tussle with the smartphone. and finally, pandamic strikes. my sextimate is that 69% of all eateries and small businesses in the bay area will be gone for good. the minimum wage policy which was originally meant to help workers in this segment is now moot because job losses are so catastrophic that displaced workers will not need minimum wage now. what they need are jobs with a wage, any wage. or else they wait for stimulus checks, food stamps, and debit cards from the state and federal govs.
 

eatshitndie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
This server analogy is flawed.

because in the first fucking place the servers ARE NOT earning the minimum wage! They make tips. Lots of it. Many don't even declare tax on the tips.

How much of the workforce do servers represent?

What about janitors? General Laborers? Fast food workers? Factory workers? Assembly line workers? Landscapers?

All those workers who DID earn minimum wage at $9+ an hour with NO TIPS? What about them?

Sure many companies will close with the hike in wages. Some will survive. Some will consolidate. If your model for business is so thin that to survive you need to pay your workers below the minimum wage, then I say time to close the business. As many rightly did.

You don't want a slave mentality in society.
in the bay area, janitors, cleaners, landscapers for private business facilities before minimum wage policies became law were usually contracted from several large service contract firms. they were mostly "undocumented" with sanctuary status given to them by the state, county, and city. these contract firms make tons of money paying them low hourly wages while earning top dollars from private corporations and businesses. undocumented workers didn't receive w2 forms, didn't pay taxes, didn't receive benefits, were not subjected to state labor laws, thus getting cash or checks at $6.9 an hour was win-win for both contractors and workers. with minimum wage laws in effect, this underground economy (and wage system) is still happening. only in the pubic sector do employers adhere to minimum wage religiously. and in the pubic sector, workers are unionized, and they hardly get fired or laid off. with overtime pay, they can make as much as a tech worker in the valley. no wonder state tax, and county/city/local parcel taxes keep going up. meanwhile in the private sector, the demand for "cheap" undocumented labor keeps going up, minimum wage or pandamic notwithstanding. and the going underground rate is still $6.9 an hour. may go down as more homeless and jobless compete with the illegals. it doesn't apply to large corporations and tech companies as they pay well above minimum wage to get the best workers.
 
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