Is WP Stronger or more Vulnerable in future 3 corner fights?

[Goh Meng Seng]

Disclaimer: I have no interest to waste resources in 3 corner fights and I don't see why we should end up in 3 corner fight before PAP is deprived of Two Third Majority in parliament. However, there is a great possibility that 3 corner fight is going to be a norm for future GEs and many people have this perception that WP is going to be invincible and have more advantage in future 3 corner fights due to its success in GE2011. (e.g. Locke). This is to examine closer such perception.

People (like Sneering Tree) with a sharp political nose would jump when any subtle mention of "political sensitive" issue like PAP-WP coalition is mentioned. Many other people would start going around putting up stinging comments but they are basically not "defending" such idea, using tactic of smearing instead.

Scroobal is most probably the wisest one. The issue is never about coalition government but rather political positioning. PE2011 has given us a very interesting set of results and it basically says that it is possible to split votes into left, centre and right.

Scroobal and others have rightly said that if the idea of PAP-WP coalition is mentioned, it is potentially "damaging" to WP, so to speak. The far left hardcore anti-PAP voters would abandon WP if there is a third choice.

Scroobal has brought up past "envious attacks" on Chiam and Low as "PAP approved". But I would say that such attacks would not stick and nobody would use such attacks during past GE basically because there aren't any massive 3 corner fights. But the PAP-WP coalition idea is totally different. It will stick because it comes from WP MP's horse mouth. Similarly, it would only be used when there is massive 3 corner fights.

Pritam is definitely not a fool just as Scroobal said. He is a well learned scholar in political science and obviously, his comment came in quite a natural way because such option or scenario has been studied carefully before. But he just lacks the political wisdom to answer to such a "trap question".

If you take a look at PE2011, what TJS did was just tell voters that he is most "independent from PAP" and he got the hardcore 25%. This is why I say the PE2011 result actually reflect an underlying danger and expose the potential WP's vulnerability in any future 3 corner fights.

LTK as a very experienced politician smells trouble immediately when he heard about what Pritam has said during the open forum. We have hardly see LTK responding or making statements to Main Stream Media anything other than his own Hougang Town Council issues. But on this account, he understood the danger and had to clarify immediately that this is not WP's party position. However, damage has been done and future potential bombs have been laid.

This little forum here is just a small community, just as JW5 had said. It is not even TRE or TOC. This little forum hardly matters and thus, any "damage" whichever ways, will be quite limited. However, when it comes to GE, if such issues are brought up during the 3 corner fight hustling, the impact will be very different, magnified hundreds thousand times. That is where the real fear lies.

When massive 3 corner fights are on the cards, everything goes and I am very sure that I will not be the last one here who will bring this issue up.

It is time to reflect actually. Apart from the fuzzy feel good feelings that some insects here have, do you really think WP is totally invincible and ready to fight any 3 corner fights?

Yes, Locke will jump in and say, well whether there are any 3 corner fights or not will depend on how WP MPs perform in the next 5 years....etc etc etc. However, this is not really the point. Even with the best performance possible, you cannot have split personalities in catering to both the centre and left sufficiently.

The votes of the hardcore anti-PAP supporters have always been taken for granted and most likely the focus will be on the centre. But if you are going to end up with 3 corner fights, the signs from PE2011 will come back to haunt WP.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

All your analysis on what other people say is besides the point. Why the fuck do you care what other people say. Even scroobal is appealing to you simply because his argument coincidentally tallies with yours. Wait till you two disagree again.

The model for the PE is the best example of how the PAP will try to tackle WP. The estab will try to create a very credible alternative in the form of a TJS and TJS-like entity that will appeal to the hard core 25%, and they will use it to challenge WP to 3 or 4CF. Nicole Seah and Jeanette are wise enough to know 3/4CF in GE is not good, but they did not extend that logic to the PE. I made the same mistake too but my excuse is that I am an anonymous nick, unlike you whose tail is out in the open.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

TFBH,

Don't always try to blame PAP or any other opposition parties lah. I know some insects within WP have been dying for 3 corner fights. It takes two to clap.

Goh Meng Seng

All your analysis on what other people say is besides the point. Why the fuck do you care what other people say. Even scroobal is appealing to you simply because his argument coincidentally tallies with yours. Wait till you two disagree again.

The model for the PE is the best example of how the PAP will try to tackle WP. The estab will try to create a very credible alternative in the form of a TJS and TJS-like entity that will appeal to the hard core 25%, and they will use it to challenge WP to 3 or 4CF. Nicole Seah and Jeanette are wise enough to know 3/4CF in GE is not good, but they did not extend that logic to the PE. I made the same mistake too but my excuse is that I am an anonymous nick, unlike you whose tail is out in the open.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

WP is not going to unseat the PAP from power even in the next 2 elections.

Pritam's coalition idea is a natural outgrowth of how WP has positioned itself, its political ambitions, and what they can REALISTICALLY achieve in the next 2 election cycles. It is not however something that should be shared with the public. It is however OK to share in this forum because this forum is not representative of the average voter and Leongsam's pathetic management skills has led to traffic declining to very small amount already. Trust me you don't lose votes here no matter what rubbish you say.

Incidentally Pritam is not the first person to mention coalition. It was mentioned publicly way back in 2007/2008 period.

A political party's first objective is to win votes and get power. If you can't grab all the power yourself, you force whoever is the ruling party to share it with you. The PAP will not share power with anyone except in a coalition situation where certain elements are agreed on and certain OB markers are enforced. The WP will be forced into the coalition situation if they want to share and keep power. It is so simple and logical, and if you leave out the emotional rhetoric it is almost inevitable and thoroughly predictable.

 

[skponggol]

Has NSP become stronger or vulnerable in their past 3 corner fights ???

In 2011 GE, I remember NSP was so obsessed in kicking the RP all over the island (Radin Mas, Pioneer & CCK) forcing them to give up those seat and competing in only 2 unwanted GRC....Look at the kind of results NSP get in Radin Mas, Pioneer and CCK....

You keep mentioning being bullied by WP, yet you have been bullying, intimidating and taunting a smaller and vulnerable party like RP....A pot calling a kettle black.

Frankly speaking, NSP has a very terrible record of 3 corner fight in Singapore history....Losing their deposit in 1992 Marine Parade by-election when they barged in into a 4-corner fight. Again, in 1997, they barged in into CCK into a 4 corner fight.

Yeah right, after so many years, has NSP grown stronger or vulnerable after so many 3-4 corner fights....

 

[jw5]

There is no big deal about a potential coalition government with pap or Pritam saying it.
If the numbers are such that no party can form the government, it's either coalition or concede. There's no lom-chiam-pas to determine the party that forms the new government.
Pls correct me if I'm mistaken.

The hard core opposition supporters may be uncomfortable with the idea. The soft core and middle ground will say "Hmm, possible". The pap supporters will laugh nervously. The uneducated and ignorant will say "simi lan jiao?"
What is interesting is why u brought it up and why now? Why the sudden comment that Pritam mentioned this?
If u had said this to the general public, it would have been a total negative for u personally, because all 4 groups above will either detest u or wonder why u said it or laugh mockingly.
I don't think u meant to attack Pritam or WP either and u knew the political fallout of saying publicly, hence u just said it in our "small community".
Some call it venting, perhaps out of regret, frustration or envy.

Ever since the end of the ge, u have only initiated posts in the nature of "would have done that but so and so stopped me or this and that prevented me", or some mysterious undisclosed masterplan for the future, or "why is wp doing this or that".
You would be better off concentrating on pappy policies and statements. At least people will see u addressing the issues created by a bunch of overpaid laggards, even though u don't have the answers yet.
More and more people are getting pissed off with u, including me and many others in this forum who support opposition and u personally.

WP and Pritam in particular have been fantastic in their speeches and rebuttals/comments to the pappies so far. Hard hitting without being nasty or cranky.
Let Pritam and his buddies do their jobs and u do yours.

 

[brocoli]

It is time to reflect actually. Apart from the fuzzy feel good feelings that some insects here have, do you really think WP is totally invincible and ready to fight any 3 corner fights?

The votes of the hardcore anti-PAP supporters have always been taken for granted and most likely the focus will be on the centre. But if you are going to end up with 3 corner fights, the signs from PE2011 will come back to haunt WP.

Goh Meng Seng

PE2011 and Punggol East show us that if we have multi corner fight, we will have a PAP win...

Most opp vote TJS because the signal wasnt clear that TCB will have such a close fight.....
now that we have the signal from PE2016, the hardcore voters will know the peril of voting in a hardcore OPp Jiak sai or sdp or nicole seah and NSP....

GMS is politically naive if he think that 25% of population cannot stomach TCB or will abandon WP in 3 corners fight when most opp voters simply dun have the benefit of exit poll at that time,

BUT we now have the exit poll, PE2011 is the exit poll

hopefully most hardcore opp voters have regretted and learn from PE2011 when they vote in Tan Jee Say ...and they will vote more wisely in 2016

and hopefully by 2016, WP will have the resources, the track record and the talents that other OPP do not have....

even Goh Meng Seng himself, Chia Ti Lik, RP Tony Tan, Tan Jiak Sai Himself and James Gomez make WP their 1st party Opp party to join

WP will always have the the right of 1st refusal on talents..

talent with dubious motive will flock to other parties because they are more interested in fancy Party posts than parliamentary seats..... and the voters will recognise it...

SInkies voters are getting more and more smart by the way...

the only thing obstructing an effective check and balance 2 parties system is multi-parties chaos!!!

 

[brocoli]

I made the same mistake too but my excuse is that I am an anonymous nick, unlike you whose tail is out in the open.

Thick Face Black Heart is an example of the 25% I was saying... Goh Meng Seng is assuming that pple like Thick Face Black Heart will make the same mistake again and again.....

is GMS really that dumb.....? why he still wan to stir da bian.....??

 

[brocoli]

I know some insects within WP have been dying for 3 corner fights. It takes two to clap.

Goh Meng Seng

this is totally not upright
you should named names instead of insinuating here and there .... i hope Low sue your pants off....

the only perception 1 get around here is that you are itching for 3CF with WP....

you like to say "perception is reality"... but you are not very perceptive are you....?

 

[HedgeTrader]

I agree with Brocoli. GMS is insinuating insects here and there. Name them. Otherwise don't insinuate.

Dare to call people insects donch dare to name them. Sound like 真小人假君子

Anyway I like to see 3-corner and NSP lose deposit LOL

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Do you need people to call you your name before you know who you are?

Goh Meng Seng

I agree with Brocoli. GMS is insinuating insects here and there. Name them. Otherwise don't insinuate. Sound like 真小人假君子

Anyway I like to see 3-corner and NSP lose deposit LOL

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear GMS

It seemed like a life time ago but I was eighteen working in Parliament, drinking tax free booze and having a great time. The MP I was with was a great supporter of PR over FPTP and hence I was researching PR arguments and election results under any possible number of alternative to FPTP. ( First Past the Post )

Honestly I would believe that your arguments would have more depth in any other system other than FPTP but alas we live in a FPTP system which I do not c changing by the PAP and with gerrymandering of a tactically sophisticated nature backed up with polls and sampling which favor largely the incumbent.

A PE is different from the GE the electorate is sophisticated enough to know that more is at stake with a GE than a PE. The stakes are higher, the playing more intense such is political theatre and drama. The historical fact is that in a FPTP system , a three corner fight favors the incumbent, Malaysia stands out in this regards. The Lib Dem's were like wise many fail to remember a split from the Labor Party when it the Labor party in the eighties veered to much to the left and it took nearly two decades before a weak labor and an insufficient conservative majority resulted in a coalition government between it and the Conservative.

Its indicative that even a national third force with a free press etc etc no gerrymandering etc etc in the UK had to rise from a split in the dominant party. The law of numbers, members constituency reach presence, geography all come into play. There are smaller parties with strong regional identification but National Parties structures are stable.

In a two cornered fight, the fight is for the political centre whether centre left, centre right. GMS has benefitted from it as has the NSP as has any number of other opposition parties. In a three cornered fight , its a fight for political identification, association and branding with the PAP being dominant. I would say in a three cornered fight the WP will not win with at best a TCB like result but neither will any party though they will not lose the deposit aka ( TKL ) I also believe that Pritam's words though unwise are early enough in the election cycle to be forgiven and forgotten by the next round even if other parties seek to bring it up .

As it stands the NSP is faced with a lot of issues and pressures brought about by its own internal failures during GE 2011. So whilst yes it is to early to talk about a three cornered fight , whether there is one depends largely on what the NSP becomes before GE 2016, If it becomes stronger them when the day comes for the usual pow wow with errr free cigarettes at PKMS this time round , the talks become brutal but at least NSP has cards in hand. If it comes to the table without any cards , pretends to bluff about its strengths then its bluff will be called and be called hard and be found naked. I have the feeling that the posturing by GMS now is because he knows that NSP has no cards or cannot gain any cards by 2016




Locke

 

[HedgeTrader]

Do you need people to call you your name before you know who you are?

Goh Meng Seng

Since you allege in public forum, I just comment in public forum also. I donch really care who you talking about since I know nobody in WP. I only met one YJJ when he came house visit, hello and shake hand. The impression was good and I voted for for him thats all. Just that your style of alleging I feel not gentleman. Just my feel. You donch have to be bothered also. Just carry on your way.

 

[brocoli]

Do you need people to call you your name before you know who you are?

Goh Meng Seng

those people may know but we dunno, is GMS insinuating that the whole forum is infested with WP insects????

making NSP lost deposit in a 3 corner fight may be the only way to finish these small parties... but they serve PAP purpose in a 3 CF

so i personally hope these small parties just get out of the way and mai sabo anymore liao ...

if chiu cant named names... STFU!!!

up moi pts pts if chiu sarport leh... kenna zapped twice into moderation liao leh,.... hee hee hee

 

[skponggol]

"I have no interest to waste resources in 3 corner fights and I don't see why we should end up in 3 corner fight ...."- GMS

But you had been kicking Reform Party all over the island (Radin Mas, Pioneer, CCK) during the 2011 GE. You had been bullying, intimidating and taunting a much smaller and more vulnerable party yet you have always been accusing Workers' Party of being a big bully ??!!..... A pot calling the kettle black.

Traditionally, NSP has always been involved in 3 corner fight, eg 1992 Marine Parade by-election when they barged in and lost their deposit, 1997 GE in CCK when they fared very badly against a strong Independent candidate and now in 2011 GE when they hounded and bullied a smaller party to near oblivion after absorbing most of their members. Where's is your consideration over opposition solidarity ?

After so many 3-corner fights, has NSP grown stronger or vulnerable ? The voters have spoken and delivered their verdict on your bullying tactic in Radin Mas, Pioneer and CCK....It is pathetic and a joke.

 

[brocoli]

Since you allege in public forum, I just comment in public forum also. I donch really care who you talking about since I know nobody in WP. I only met one YJJ when he came house visit, hello and shake hand. The impression was good and I voted for for him thats all. Just that your style of alleging I feel not gentleman. Just my feel. You donch have to be bothered also. Just carry on your way.

are chiu insinuating HedgeTrader is WP.... ? chiu really have no cards left liao...

jin pathetic.... when the tides come down... we will see who is naked.... bery obvious ....


up moi pts if chiu like ??? hee hee hee

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Dear Locke,

It will depend on who you are dealing with and how they deal with you.

You may think NSP has no cards but I don't really care actually. They really don't need any cards because they will be drawing cards from WP! But you will be very surprised in the next GE to see NSP cards.

PE is still FPTP system and you are entitled to make believe that PE is so different from GE. I mean, only results will convince you otherwise, no point arguing over this point.

Goh Meng Seng

Dear GMS

In a two cornered fight, the fight is for the political centre whether centre left, centre right. GMS has benefitted from it as has the NSP as has any number of other opposition parties. In a three cornered fight , its a fight for political identification, association and branding with the PAP being dominant. I would say in a three cornered fight the WP will not win with at best a TCB like result but neither will any party though they will not lose the deposit aka ( TKL ) I also believe that Pritam's words though unwise are early enough in the election cycle to be forgiven and forgotten by the next round even if other parties seek to bring it up .

As it stands the NSP is faced with a lot of issues and pressures brought about by its own internal failures during GE 2011. So whilst yes it is to early to talk about a three cornered fight , whether there is one depends largely on what the NSP becomes before GE 2016, If it becomes stronger them when the day comes for the usual pow wow with errr free cigarettes at PKMS this time round , the talks become brutal but at least NSP has cards in hand. If it comes to the table without any cards , pretends to bluff about its strengths then its bluff will be called and be called hard and be found naked. I have the feeling that the posturing by GMS now is because he knows that NSP has no cards or cannot gain any cards by 2016




Locke

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

Don't need to worry. Everyone should know who they are themselves.

Goh Meng Seng

Since you allege in public forum, I just comment in public forum also. I donch really care who you talking about since I know nobody in WP. I only met one YJJ when he came house visit, hello and shake hand. The impression was good and I voted for for him thats all. Just that your style of alleging I feel not gentleman. Just my feel. You donch have to be bothered also. Just carry on your way.

 

[brocoli]

Don't need to worry. Everyone should know who they are.

Goh Meng Seng

see ebery butties ....he is all hot air !!!!

make allegation with no proofs



不攻自破....sibei loser.... I pui chao nuai.... KnnBCCB

hope ah low sue his ass off !!!

 

[GoldenDragon]

Pritam is definitely not a fool just as Scroobal said. He is a well learned scholar in political science and obviously, his comment came in quite a natural way because such option or scenario has been studied carefully before. But he just lacks the political wisdom to answer to such a "trap question".

No one of sound mind and some intelligence will consider PS a fool. PS graduated with honors in both political science and history. I think he has a diploma in Malay studies too. Recently, doctorate in law. Academically, he is miles ahead of you. If he is a fool, how to classify yourself?

PS lacks political wisdom? Please lah, GMS, PS is in parliament on his first attempt. Yourself? If 1 vs 1, PS vs GMS, even in a Chinese dominated SMC, I won't bet on you winning. Our voters, the 40% are not fools. If the 60% has to choose, I think they will bet on PS.

A pity Eugene Tan is giving his expert views on our political scene. Why not you, GMS?