Chitchat Is putting Israel at the centre of conflict in the US best interest?

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Trump's Jerusalem proclamation has received universal criticism or condemnation.

With horns locked on Israels, its diverse enemies have found common ground. This surely cannot be in the interests of the United States.

The easy explanation for Trump's action is to pander to his support base. The hard part is trying to justify whether such pandering is worth the enormous international political cost.

 

[tanwahtiu]

This is what happen when the country is fucked with democracy.

US will be break up soon and become poor nation.

 

[3_M]

Chaos and conflict serve the interests of USA. Capital will all flow towards the perceive Safe haven and that USA.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Chaos and conflict serve the interests of USA. Capital will all flow towards the perceive Safe haven and that USA.

I'm not too sure uniting Israel's enemies are in the US best interests

 

[maxsanic]

Realistically how much unison can we expect from the Islamic countries? To date, all there is is lots of hot air while the underlying conflict and tension between them remains unabated.

My senses is it's not really a game changer for US interests not withstanding all the media hype around it. US will gain some lose some depending in which angle you are coming from. Israel, on the other hand, is exchanging its domestic security and international standing for a semi-symbolic legitimacy. For them it's hard to see how this is beneficial in the long term.

 

[yinyang]

That maverick to a T. At what costs? The mullahs don't need another excuse for more chaos

The Antichrist
US President Donald Trump ordered the State Department to begin the process of moving the US embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem.

 

[Leongsam]

Trump's Jerusalem proclamation has received universal criticism or condemnation.

Trump does not decide where Israel's capital city is. Israel calls the shots.

Trump was never in any position to make any proclamations. All he has done is to show Israel the respect it duly deserves.

 

[Interstellar]

Trump's Jerusalem proclamation has received universal criticism or condemnation.

With horns locked on Israels, its diverse enemies have found common ground. This surely cannot be in the interests of the United States.

The easy explanation for Trump's action is to pander to his support base. The hard part is trying to justify whether such pandering is worth the enormous international political cost.

Muslims countries form a small number of nations who do not even recognize Israel as a Country, so Muslims getting angry at US recognizing Jerusalem as Israel Capital is simply Empty Vessels making more noises. If you don't recognize something, just don't recognize it and good for you. Many others who recognize it, that's their business.

Trump is sending the right message to the Manipulative Muslims: Since the proposed two state solution has been dragging on for decades and muslims do not want a peaceful coexistence with Israel, fine. If you have the balls, come grab the land that you claim is yours. You muslims had ganged up on Israel before so surely you are free to do it again. But if you got no balls, the world moves on while you burn some flags and whine like a crybaby.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

My senses is it's not really a game changer for US interests not withstanding all the media hype around it. US will gain some lose some depending in which angle you are coming from. Israel, on the other hand, is exchanging its domestic security and international standing for a semi-symbolic legitimacy. For them it's hard to see how this is beneficial in the long term.

You're probably right. Israel has much more to lose than the US.

In a sense, you could even say Trump has learnt a thing or two from Iran and North Korea. Behave unpredictably and sometimes outrageously and have the world view you as a tinderbox. That is sometimes the best political position one can have.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

All he has done is to show Israel the respect it duly deserves.

International politics is not about respect, much less giving it to others. It is about how much I can get and at what cost.

 

[Ang4MohTrump]

Trump's Jerusalem proclamation has received universal criticism or condemnation.

With horns locked on Israels, its diverse enemies have found common ground. This surely cannot be in the interests of the United States.

The easy explanation for Trump's action is to pander to his support base. The hard part is trying to justify whether such pandering is worth the enormous international political cost.

Dying USA is desperate like fuck, bankrupted beggar under the cross hair of NK nuke. Fucking helpless dead meat. It can take care of nobody nor himself. Sabotage everyone trying safe own lame fucking ass.

Get whole world into deep fucking troubles.

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

"Dominant parts of American evangelicalism teach that the state of Israel is “the fulfillment of prophecy … which means that it could not be wrong in any way because it’s doing God’s work,” said Dr. Diana Butler Bass, who studies the movement. Part of this prophetic teaching is that all Jews must move to biblical Israel with Jerusalem as its capital — and then convert to Christianity — in order for the Messiah to come....That first part of the equation lines up well with the policies of Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, whose extreme-right coalition is strongly supportive of Jewish settlements in East Jerusalem and the occupied West Bank, disputed territories with biblical ties that Israel captured in 1967...
Bass explained that these evangelicals see both Netanyahu and Trump as doing God’s will in moving the world toward the end of days. “That they are both in power at the same time … heightens the prophetic expectation,” she said.

But the second part of the equation sits very, very uncomfortably with many Jews. “There’s a lot of anti-Semitism in all of this stuff,” said Bass. She described the desire for the mass conversion of Jews not as an acceptance of Judaism as a theology or religious practice in its own right, but as “instruments” to reaching the prophesied Judgment Day. Knowing that many Israelis are turned off by proselytizing and missionary work, in part given Christian Europe’s bloody history of anti-Semitism, in recent decades there’s been a concerted effort to tone down the conversion part of the evangelical narrative toward Israel. “I believe with them completely that all the Jews should come to Israel until the Messiah comes,” Silberstein said. “Perhaps the difference will be whether it’s the first time or the second time,”

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

...Jerusalem had an important role to play in these end-times events. When the Jews rejected Jesus as the messiah, he explained, God chose the church to accomplish his mission. Soon this "church age" would end with the rapture of true believers.

But God still loved the Jews, he told us, and wanted to redeem them. Thus, absent the church, the Jews would experience a great religious rebirth and rebuild their temple in Jerusalem. This would spark a series of cataclysmic events that would culminate in the Battle of Armageddon, the last war of humanity. But it would also cause the Jews to finally accept Jesus as their savior. After all this occurred, Jesus would return in glory and God's kingdom -- a thousand-year reign of peace. And it would begin in Jerusalem.

This theology -- a literal belief that all these things must happen before Jesus will return to reign on Earth -- is called "dispensational pre-millennialism"...
versions of dispensational pre-millennialism dominate American evangelicalism.

It originated as a small movement in the 1840s, but by the 1970s, millions of evangelical and fundamentalist churchgoers had embraced some form of it. Dispensationalism was popularized in a best-selling book called
"The Late, Great Planet Earth" by Hal Lindsey ; and later, in the 1990s, it reached an even larger audience through the "Left Behind" novels by Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins.

The theology spread via Bible camps and colleges, through theological seminaries and revival meetings, in films and videos, by Sunday school materials, and in daily devotional guides -- all teaching that the end of the world was near, and that Jerusalem was the physical place where this apocalyptic drama would unfold.

 

[scroobal]

Israel has relied on 2 strategies thru-out its existence - intransigence and incremental moves that are ever so slight. Trump's move does not add any value to the State of Israel or its long standing strategy.

In many quarters the move to recognise Jerusalem by the US is one of ridicule. The US is not the authority to recognise anything by itself. It also has no divine right to do so.

If the majority of countries followed, it might be a different matter altogether. Well the rest of the World has snubbed Israel and this despite Netanyahu repeating in the last few days that other countries will follow suit.

Neither does it add any stock to US political capital or gives it a bar to US foreign policy stewardship. All it does is give the bible belt a bit of short lived orgasm and some Christian puritan some hope of the messiah's return.

 

[scroobal]

Joginder Singh from Perak aka the Rock.

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[scroobal]

Self inflicted injury?


UN to vote Monday on call for US Jerusalem decision to be withdrawn

• The UN Security Council is set to vote Monday on a draft resolution calling for withdrawal of the US decision to recognize Jerusalem as Israeli capital
• The draft UN text expresses "deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem"
• To pass, a resolution needs nine votes in favor and no vetoes by the United States, France, Britain, Russia or China

Published 8 Hours AgoReuters

Thomas Coex | AFP | Getty Images
Israeli forces clash with Palestinian protestors near an Israeli checkpoint in the West Bank city of Bethlehem on December 7, 2017. US President Donald Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital sparked a Palestinian general strike and a call for a new intifada as fears grew of fresh bloodshed in the region.
The United Nations Security Council is due to vote on Monday on a draft resolution calling for the withdrawal of U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to recognize Jerusalem as the capital of Israel, diplomats said, a move likely to face a Washington veto.

The one-page Egyptian-drafted text, seen by Reuters, does not specifically mention the United States or Trump. Diplomats say it has broad support among the 15-member council, and while it is unlikely to be adopted, the vote will further isolate Trump on the issue.

To pass, a resolution needs nine votes in favor and no vetoes by the United States, France, Britain, Russia or China.


Trump abruptly reversed decades of U.S. policy this month when he recognized Jerusalem as Israel's capital, generating outrage from Palestinians. Trump also plans to move the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem from Tel Aviv.

U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Nikki Haley has praised Trump's decision as "the just and right thing to do."

The U.S. mission to the United Nations was not immediately available to comment on Sunday.

Arab foreign ministers agreed to seek a UN Security Council resolution on the issue. The draft UN text expresses "deep regret at recent decisions concerning the status of Jerusalem."

It "affirms that any decisions and actions which purport to have altered, the character, status or demographic composition of the Holy City of Jerusalem have no legal effect, are null and void and must be rescinded in compliance with relevant resolutions of the Security Council."

The draft also calls upon all countries to refrain from establishing diplomatic missions in Jerusalem.

Israel considers the city its eternal and indivisible capital and wants all embassies based there.

"No vote or debate will change the clear reality that Jerusalem" is the capital of Israel, Danny Danon, Israel's ambassador to the United Nations, said in a statement on Saturday.

Palestinians want the capital of an independent Palestinian state to be in the city's eastern sector, which Israel captured in a 1967 war and annexed in a move never recognized internationally.

The draft council resolution "demands that all states comply with Security Council resolutions regarding the Holy City of Jerusalem, and not to recognize any actions or measures contrary to those resolutions."

A UN Security Council resolution adopted in December 2016 "underlines that it will not recognize any changes to the 4 June 1967 lines, including with regard to Jerusalem, other than those agreed by the parties through negotiations."

That resolution was approved with 14 votes in favor and an abstention by former U.S. President Barack Obama's administration, which defied heavy pressure from longtime ally Israel and Trump, who was then president-elect, for Washington to wield its veto.

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

Nikki Haley attacks America’s closest allies, UK, France, etc...”What we witnessed here in #UNSC today is an insult and will not be forgotten.”

UK Amb shoots back: “US decision is unhelpful...Jerusalem should be the shared capital of #Palestine and #Israel. Our embassy will remain in Tel Aviv.”

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

 

[gatehousethetinkertailor]

 

[mojito]

God bless America! God bless Trump!