Indonesia also buying Leopard Tanks

[escher]

like frog said, it will look impressive when the Leo2 run over protesters at jakarta city centre.

Indonesians will not do that.

But not the same in Singapore.
Tanks and flamethrowers will be used on Sinkies by LKY to remain in power.

Pray that bastard LKY go eat joss sticks and candlewax fast fast

 

[wikiphile]

Bro wiki you know how they transport sand to Singapore? Think this method can work la.

Sand via barges pii. 60mtons tank a bit hard but i already thought of this already

 

[wikiphile]

They are defensive. In case Singapore wants to invade Indonesia.

Ask you the other way round: Why have Leopard tanks in Singapore when everywhere is so built up? What use are they? Leo 2s are meant for open field training.

Lotsa space north of the causeway.

 

[steffychun]

Lotsa space north of the causeway.

before that happens Malaysian MLRS will fire

 

[escher]

before that happens Malaysian MLRS will fire

Aim for the fucking Istana and places where maggots in white gather.

Singapore deliverance from Gallup polls as the most miserable country on this Planet, and maybe all inhabitable planets this side of the galaxy

 

[wayanggedek]

before that happens Malaysian MLRS will fire

I am from there but I must tell you I am sure the moment there is movement of the Astros towards south your intel would have been alerted and your TPQs splashing towards them. They could get the first rounds in the air but I al sure it will be the very last of them in the next few moments when your HIMARS rain down on them.

Anyway I know means they know so I am sure it will be a very difficult decision to even move the Astros let alone fire one.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Bro wiki you know how they transport sand to Singapore? Think this method can work la.

Uncle frog, u shd know how slow the sand barges travel. They hardly get pass batam before blown out of the water by the f16. Maybe let the sub COs fire a real torpedo for once.

 

[sleaguepunter]

They are defensive. In case Singapore wants to invade Indonesia.

Ask you the other way round: Why have Leopard tanks in Singapore when everywhere is so built up? What use are they? Leo 2s are meant for open field training.

Mbts are never defensive weapon. Arming 2 mats on cubkia with rpg7 against armour column is defensive.

 

[steffychun]

I am from there but I must tell you I am sure the moment there is movement of the Astros towards south your intel would have been alerted and your TPQs splashing towards them. They could get the first rounds in the air but I al sure it will be the very last of them in the next few moments when your HIMARS rain down on them.

Anyway I know means they know so I am sure it will be a very difficult decision to even move the Astros let alone fire one.

Actually, all the HIMARs are based overseas.

 

[steffychun]

Mbts are never defensive weapon. Arming 2 mats on cubkia with rpg7 against armour column is defensive.

So maybe Indonesia wants to invade East Timor again

 

[wuqi256]

I am from there but I must tell you I am sure the moment there is movement of the Astros towards south your intel would have been alerted and your TPQs splashing towards them. They could get the first rounds in the air but I al sure it will be the very last of them in the next few moments when your HIMARS rain down on them.

Anyway I know means they know so I am sure it will be a very difficult decision to even move the Astros let alone fire one.

I think they have about 30 plus Astros II now if not more. Maybe up to 3 batteries worth? For counter battery work, once the radar is done with the trajectory, CEP etc. Its up to the hardware to counter in time with the information/corrections provided.

Likely they will do the standard shoot and scoot so HIMARS is only as good as the intel/GPS coordinates provided.

 

[sleaguepunter]

So maybe Indonesia wants to invade East Timor again

Being head of a armour column is many generals wet dream. It project power and awe as the armour column roll thru jakarta city centre toward the presidential palace. A very useful tool to a general who have presidential ambition.

 

[sleaguepunter]

I think they have about 30 plus Astros II now if not more. Maybe up to 3 batteries worth? For counter battery work, once the radar is done with the trajectory, CEP etc. Its up to the hardware to counter in time with the information/corrections provided.

Likely they will do the standard shoot and scoot so HIMARS is only as good as the intel/GPS coordinates provided.

To engage MLRS with counter arty fire is waste of time. A good MLRS can fire 3 salvo to hit the target TOT and drive off even before the shells land.

Maybe only way to catch them is to scan for it wireless net, pinpoint its location and send a squadron of f16 with jsow after it.

30 Astro2? That more like 4-5 batteries. Maybe they organise 3 batteries into a independent arty unit while the other 2 batteries as attach arty to regiments.

 

[eatshitndie]

Mbts are never defensive weapon. Arming 2 mats on cubkia with rpg7 against armour column is defensive.

the iraqis tried using their then top-of-the-line t72s for a defensive shield in the desert in the 1st gulf war by burying the mbts in the sand with only turrets and guns protuding. not a good idea. uncharacteristically, the americans instead of pressing head on with their m1a1 abrams in a frontal assault stopped dead on their tracks just out of gun range of the t72s. while the iraqis were waiting for the m1s to move en mass into their kill zone, which did not happen, the americans turned all turrets to the rear, pointed guns backwards, picked up their m1s with chinooks and hopped over the iraqi mbt defensive line. when the chinooks landed the m1s in the iraqi rear, there was nothing the iraqi mbts could do as their turrets and guns were hemmed in by piles of compacted sand and sandbags on the sides. all the m1s had to do were to pick sitting duck targets and fire with tanks pointing forward and gun backwards. it was a massacre of t72s. many iraqis abandoned their positions and surrendered. those really unfortunate ones in trenches were buried alive by cevs during mop ups.

 

[wuqi256]

To engage MLRS with counter arty fire is waste of time. A good MLRS can fire 3 salvo to hit the target TOT and drive off even before the shells land.

Maybe only way to catch them is to scan for it wireless net, pinpoint its location and send a squadron of f16 with jsow after it.

Counter battery fire still has its own use as scrambling air assets takes time and if not taken out early on, is still vulnerable to their air defense network. While the first shots would have already set things in motion.

Agree on the scooting off but if intel is good, then aside from the higher priority targets, their fallback position/rearm point would be the next target.

 

[wuqi256]

Being head of a armour column is many generals wet dream. It project power and awe as the armour column roll thru jakarta city centre toward the presidential palace. A very useful tool to a general who have presidential ambition.

Confirm, sometimes not really for the military presence as much as for the shock and awe.
End of the day, any combined arms deployment will always see the infantry holding ground.

 

[sleaguepunter]

the iraqis tried using their then top-of-the-line t72s for a defensive shield in the desert in the 1st gulf war by burying the mbts in the sand with only turrets and guns protuding. not a good idea. uncharacteristically, the americans instead of pressing head on with their m1a1 abrams in a frontal assault stopped dead on their tracks just out of gun range of the t72s. while the iraqis were waiting for the m1s to move en mass into their kill zone, which did not happen, the americans turned all turrets to the rear, pointed guns backwards, picked up their m1s with chinooks and hopped over the iraqi mbt defensive line. when the chinooks landed the m1s in the iraqi rear, there was nothing the iraqi mbts could do as their turrets and guns were hemmed in by piles of compacted sand and sandbags on the sides. all the m1s had to do were to pick sitting duck targets and fire with tanks pointing forward and gun backwards. it was a massacre of t72s. many iraqis abandoned their positions and surrendered. those really unfortunate ones in trenches were buried alive by cevs during mop ups.

Even the mighty US army lack the heavy lifting capabilities of your story. I doubt the chinook can carry the M1Abram that weigh 60plus tons. The M1 main gun outrange the T72 main gun. The the M1 crew have to do was keep out of range of the T72 and shoot. I dont doubt the part where the iraq T72 got shoot from behind but it due to the US calvary units exscute a left hook, race across empty iraq desert and got behind the iraqi main line of resistance. As much as iraqi troops folded spectacularly against the coalition forces but i doubt the veteran of the iraq and iran war will make a mistake of burying tank under the sand without a mean to get out. Once a tank lose mobility, it no better than a fixed position pillbox which can be destroy once position exposed. No armour officer will make that mistake, at least those with half a brain wont.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Counter battery fire still has its own use as scrambling air assets takes time and if not taken out early on, is still vulnerable to their air defense network. While the first shots would have already set things in motion.

Agree on the scooting off but if intel is good, then aside from the higher priority targets, their fallback position/rearm point would be the next target.

True, no matter how good a weapon is, it only as good as it resupply line is secure. ie. Many german tigers were not destroy by allies forces but scuttled by its own crew after running out of fuel in the battle of the bulge.

 

[sleaguepunter]

Confirm, sometimes not really for the military presence as much as for the shock and awe.
End of the day, any combined arms deployment will always see the infantry holding ground.

That why panzergrenadiers are love by the tank crews for the protection the grenadiers provide the tank.

 

[wuqi256]

Even the mighty US army lack the heavy lifting capabilities of your story. I doubt the chinook can carry the M1Abram that weigh 60plus tons. The M1 main gun outrange the T72 main gun. The the M1 crew have to do was keep out of range of the T72 and shoot. I dont doubt the part where the iraq T72 got shoot from behind but it due to the US calvary units exscute a left hook, race across empty iraq desert and got behind the iraqi main line of resistance. As much as iraqi troops folded spectacularly against the coalition forces but i doubt the veteran of the iraq and iran war will make a mistake of burying tank under the sand without a mean to get out. Once a tank lose mobility, it no better than a fixed position pillbox which can be destroy once position exposed. No armour officer will make that mistake, at least those with half a brain wont.

Even if the earlier version of M1 was used back then (105mm rifled cannon version) and it was lighter than the upgraded (A1) series but definitely not possible to airlift via chinooks.

Strategic [edit]

Strategic mobility is the ability of the tanks of an armed force to arrive in a timely, cost effective, and synchronized fashion. The Abrams can be carried by a C-5 Galaxy or a C-17 Globemaster III.

The limited capacity (two combat-ready in a C-5, one combat-ready tank in a C-17) caused serious logistical problems when deploying the tanks for the first Persian Gulf War, though there was enough time for 1,848 tanks to be transported by ship.

Marines transport their MAGTF-attached Abrams by combat ship. A Wasp-class LHD typically carries a platoon of 4 to 5 tanks attached to the deployed Marine Expeditionary Unit, which are then amphibiously transported to shore by LCAC at 1 combat-ready tank per landing craft.

The Abrams is also transportable by truck, namely the M1070 Heavy Equipment Transporter (HET). The HET can operate on highways, secondary roads, and cross-country. The HET accommodates the 4 tank crewmen.[68]


The first instance of the Abrams being airlifted directly into a battlefield occurred in April 2003, when armored elements of the 1st Infantry Division were lifted by C-17s into northern Iraq from Ramstein, Germany to support Task Force Viking.[69]

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1_Abrams