Switzerland plans a referendum on whether the country should pay everybody – working and unemployed – 2,500 Swiss Francs ($3,000) every month. A universal basic income (UBI), it’s argued, will keep everyone out of poverty and benefit the economy in general, and even right-wing think tanks in the U.S. believe there’s a strong case to be made for scrapping the current welfare system and funnelling the money into a UBI. There are structural challenges, to be sure, Anna Nicolaou points out in ROB Insight, but if masses of people can be lifted out of poverty without distorting the job market, it’s a debate worth having.
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Income without working - Swiss standard of living
- Thread starter winnipegjets
- Start date
The unemployed will be paid out of higher taxes on the employed, resulting in lots of problems.
This won't work unless the sum is drastically reduced.
This won't work unless the sum is drastically reduced.
So nobody needs to work and everyone can collect $3000 per month. What a great system.
I would like to do that also.
This is even more ludicrous that Marxism.
When I was travelling through Switzerland
On several occasions I saw young men in uniform
Walking into supermarkets and convenience stores
Camouflage uniform and rifle slung on shoulder
Yet crime rate in Switzerland is very low
It's not about democracy or freedom of speech
More to do with culture and upbringing
Over centuries and not just decades
So forget about such measures in Sinkieland
Doable in other places but political suicide
In place with rojak of different cultures
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Absolutely!
Idiotic to give away money.
Should make giving money away as a crime that demand the death penalty.
Let us all nip that in the bud.
Catch all those with donation tins begging for money and a hundred lashes to them and their parents.
All those UN feeding of the starving in various countries be stopped or the UN be nuked
Survival of the fittest be the rule and if a tsunami hit you, or an eartthquake, you on your own and you sink or swim and be quiet about it
So nobody needs to work and everyone can collect $3000 per month. What a great system.
OF COURSE IT IS GREAT SYSTEM.
1] the govberment money is the citizens' money.
it is NOT the salary of the pm , ministers , civil servants.
2] if swiss government has excess $ and decided to return it to the citizens
this is a bestest government .
3] unlike sillypoore where the govberment HORDES money.
one example will do :
town council charges the sillyppooreans for upkeeping of the estate (leased),
the fee are increased every few years because the greedy proclaimed
cost has increased.
yet they are able to accumulate millions.
they have so much to invest in security.
so we know the increased in cost is bullshit.
EIGHT town councils (TC) run by the People's Action Party have about $16 million invested in troubled structured products.
The lion's share of $12 million is from two TCs: Holland-Bukit Panjang ($8 million) and Pasir Ris-Punggol ($4 million).
The products include Minibonds linked to bankrupt US investment bank Lehman Brothers and the now worthless
Merrill Lynch Jubilee Series 3 LinkEarner Notes.
Dr Teo Ho Pin, chairman of the Holland-Bukit Panjang TC as well as coordinating chairman for the 14 PAP town councils,
disclosed this yesterday.
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Well, the employed will have job security as the boost in demand from universal income for all will increase consumption. Well, the rich will have to pay more taxes but poverty will be eradicated and society will be stable.
This is Progressive Capitalism.
So nobody needs to work and everyone can collect $3000 per month. What a great system.
People is given a baseline income and those who seek more, and most will as a job is more than income, can do so. Social democracy has not stopped successful entrepreneurs - eg. Ikea, Lego to name a few.
I think this will be a great system as poverty is eradicated.
Look at the benefit for society ...homelessness, poverty got rid off. Aggregate demand increased. Less stress for people. Health improved. Nothing to stop people from getting rich and nothing to make people poor. It is a great system. Let progressive democracy prevail in the world.
That comment about Swiss standards of living was a monumental mistake. No country can be like Switzerland, they have unique factors that are not easily replicable, many have tried and all have failed. Switzerland unlike many countries is not a nation founded on ethnic, racial or linguistic affiliations, it's a confederation with shared values based on federalism, strong armed neutrality and direct democracy. Almost all other western countries have representative not direct democracy.
So nobody needs to work and everyone can collect $3000 per month. What a great system.
Ang Moh is the Best!
The world does not work that way. Give the useless fucks $3000 per month and they'll blow it all on vices and expect more handouts.
They'll then claim that $3000 isn't enough and up the ante.
In NZ, a single mother of 2 children gets up to $50,000 a year to laze around and do nothing but make more children. That's more than what the Swiss are proposing.
Despite this, The issue of "Child Poverty" keeps cropping up on a regular basis. The reason is simple, the mother has used the money at the pokies and to buy drugs and booze instead of using it to feed and educate her kids.
Swiss to vote on incomes for all - working or not
By Imogen Foulkes
BBC News, Bern
Switzerland, one of the world's wealthiest countries, is engaged in an intense process of soul searching - about money.
This year alone there have been two nationwide referendums on executive pay, one of which approved strict limits on bonuses and banned golden handshakes.
Now two more votes are on the way, the first on the introduction of a minimum wage, and the second, and most controversial, on a guaranteed basic income for all legal residents, whether they work or not.
A universal basic income sounds very radical, but it is not a new idea - Thomas More proposed it in his work Utopia in the 16th Century.
On the left, universal basic income is thought to be fairer, while on the right it is seen as the policy that would make welfare payments obsolete.
For Enno Schmidt, a key supporter of universal basic income, Switzerland is the perfect place, and 2013 the perfect time, to launch a campaign to introduce it.
"Switzerland is the only place in Europe, and maybe in the world, where the people have the right to make something real, [through] direct democracy," he says.
That system of direct democracy means the Swiss could vote for free beer if they wanted to.
To hold a nationwide referendum, all citizens have to do is gather 100,000 signatures calling for a vote, and the ballot must be held - the result is binding.
The anger among many Swiss voters at the news that some of their biggest banks, such as UBS, had continued paying top executives huge bonuses while also reporting huge losses, has led to a heated debate about salaries, and more widely, about fairness.
In that context, it was easy to gather the 100,000 signatures to hold the vote on universal income, and the government is expected to name a date for the referendum soon.
Swiss business leaders have reacted with dismay, one calling it a "happy land" proposal, the product of a younger generation that has never experienced a major economic recession or widespread unemployment.
Many have also suggested it could provide a major disincentive to working at all, something that could pose problems for Swiss companies already finding it hard to recruit skilled workers.
Mr Schmidt denies this, saying the proposed amount for Switzerland, 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,800; £1,750) a month is scarcely enough to survive on, and that anyway a society in which people work only because they have to have money is "no better than slavery".
Instead Mr Schmidt argues that universal income would allow people more freedom to decide what they really want to do.
"The thought is not that people will work less, the people are free to decide - more, or less," he says.
That argument has found some enthusiastic supporters among young Swiss voters.
They have adopted a rather clever campaign technique, borrowing eight million five-centime pieces and displaying them around the country as a symbol that Switzerland can afford to pay its eight million inhabitants a universal income.
Che Wagner is one of the campaigners, he is 25, studying for a master's degree at Zurich university, and working for a pizza delivery company.
"I have a daughter," he says, "and so of course I am there for my daughter, I look after her."
"But it is also a struggle - I have to work, so we can live.
"I think with a basic income I would still have to work, but I could… maybe [also] say, 'OK let's spend a week with my daughter.'"
And, when Che and his colleagues dumped their eight million coins outside the Swiss parliament, the politicians inside did not dismiss the campaign out of hand.
"The idea makes sense in a certain way," says Luzi Stamm, member of parliament for the right-wing Swiss People's Party.
But Mr Stamm adds, it would be a risky move for Switzerland to take as long as it remains inside Europe's free movement of people agreement.
"It certainly does not work in a country like Switzerland. In a country which is wealthy, and has open borders it is suicide."
Meanwhile on the left, economist and former social democrat member of parliament Rudolf Strahm backs a minimum wage but is against a universal income, believing it would undermine the famous Swiss work ethic.
"There will be no incentive for young people to learn a job or study," he says.
So how much exactly would such a scheme cost?
No-one is offering precise figures, although there is surprisingly little debate about whether Switzerland could afford it - the consensus seems to be that, financially, the scheme would be doable.
We need to think more about our work-life balance, say campaigners
Income tax would not necessarily rise, but value added tax - on what people buy rather than what they earn - could rise to 20% or even 30%.
In the long run, supporters say, money might actually be saved because a basic universal income would replace means tested welfare payments.
But the main motivation behind the campaign is not economic but cultural, a bid to make people think more carefully about the nature of life and work.
Mr Wagner points out that the whole debate can make people uncomfortable, presenting them with choices that so far have been unimaginable.
"The idea goes to the personal question - what are you doing in your life, is it actually what you want do?"
By Imogen Foulkes
BBC News, Bern
Switzerland, one of the world's wealthiest countries, is engaged in an intense process of soul searching - about money.
This year alone there have been two nationwide referendums on executive pay, one of which approved strict limits on bonuses and banned golden handshakes.
Now two more votes are on the way, the first on the introduction of a minimum wage, and the second, and most controversial, on a guaranteed basic income for all legal residents, whether they work or not.
A universal basic income sounds very radical, but it is not a new idea - Thomas More proposed it in his work Utopia in the 16th Century.
On the left, universal basic income is thought to be fairer, while on the right it is seen as the policy that would make welfare payments obsolete.
For Enno Schmidt, a key supporter of universal basic income, Switzerland is the perfect place, and 2013 the perfect time, to launch a campaign to introduce it.
"Switzerland is the only place in Europe, and maybe in the world, where the people have the right to make something real, [through] direct democracy," he says.
That system of direct democracy means the Swiss could vote for free beer if they wanted to.
To hold a nationwide referendum, all citizens have to do is gather 100,000 signatures calling for a vote, and the ballot must be held - the result is binding.
The anger among many Swiss voters at the news that some of their biggest banks, such as UBS, had continued paying top executives huge bonuses while also reporting huge losses, has led to a heated debate about salaries, and more widely, about fairness.
In that context, it was easy to gather the 100,000 signatures to hold the vote on universal income, and the government is expected to name a date for the referendum soon.
Swiss business leaders have reacted with dismay, one calling it a "happy land" proposal, the product of a younger generation that has never experienced a major economic recession or widespread unemployment.
Many have also suggested it could provide a major disincentive to working at all, something that could pose problems for Swiss companies already finding it hard to recruit skilled workers.
Mr Schmidt denies this, saying the proposed amount for Switzerland, 2,500 Swiss francs ($2,800; £1,750) a month is scarcely enough to survive on, and that anyway a society in which people work only because they have to have money is "no better than slavery".
Instead Mr Schmidt argues that universal income would allow people more freedom to decide what they really want to do.
"The thought is not that people will work less, the people are free to decide - more, or less," he says.
That argument has found some enthusiastic supporters among young Swiss voters.
They have adopted a rather clever campaign technique, borrowing eight million five-centime pieces and displaying them around the country as a symbol that Switzerland can afford to pay its eight million inhabitants a universal income.
Che Wagner is one of the campaigners, he is 25, studying for a master's degree at Zurich university, and working for a pizza delivery company.
"I have a daughter," he says, "and so of course I am there for my daughter, I look after her."
"But it is also a struggle - I have to work, so we can live.
"I think with a basic income I would still have to work, but I could… maybe [also] say, 'OK let's spend a week with my daughter.'"
And, when Che and his colleagues dumped their eight million coins outside the Swiss parliament, the politicians inside did not dismiss the campaign out of hand.
"The idea makes sense in a certain way," says Luzi Stamm, member of parliament for the right-wing Swiss People's Party.
But Mr Stamm adds, it would be a risky move for Switzerland to take as long as it remains inside Europe's free movement of people agreement.
"It certainly does not work in a country like Switzerland. In a country which is wealthy, and has open borders it is suicide."
Meanwhile on the left, economist and former social democrat member of parliament Rudolf Strahm backs a minimum wage but is against a universal income, believing it would undermine the famous Swiss work ethic.
"There will be no incentive for young people to learn a job or study," he says.
So how much exactly would such a scheme cost?
No-one is offering precise figures, although there is surprisingly little debate about whether Switzerland could afford it - the consensus seems to be that, financially, the scheme would be doable.
We need to think more about our work-life balance, say campaigners
Income tax would not necessarily rise, but value added tax - on what people buy rather than what they earn - could rise to 20% or even 30%.
In the long run, supporters say, money might actually be saved because a basic universal income would replace means tested welfare payments.
But the main motivation behind the campaign is not economic but cultural, a bid to make people think more carefully about the nature of life and work.
Mr Wagner points out that the whole debate can make people uncomfortable, presenting them with choices that so far have been unimaginable.
"The idea goes to the personal question - what are you doing in your life, is it actually what you want do?"
Swiss Initiative Would Give $2,800 a Month to Everyone—No Strings Attached
A movement to give every person an “unconditional basic income”—no work required—is gathering speed in Europe. In its biggest victory to date, earlier this month supporters in Switzerland garnered more than 100,000 signatures on a petition and managed to get an initiative onto the national ballot.
“It will be the first time in history that a country will actually vote on whether they want a basic income for all,” Stanislas Jourdan, a “mediactivist” in France who is working on a similar Europe-wide initiative, told me in an interview today. The Europe-wide initiative requires 1 million signatures to get on the ballot and has acquired about 100,000 since the start of 2013.
There is nothing like this happening in the U.S., where conditionality is very much a part of getting government assistance for the young and able-bodied. You can’t collect unemployment insurance without proof that you’re actively looking for a job. And since the Clinton administration, you can’t get welfare without fulfilling welfare-to-work requirements that vary by state. (Here are California’s.)
VIDEO: Several Swiss Banks Probed on Currency Manipulation
The Swiss ballot initiative, which isn’t scheduled yet, doesn’t state how big the unconditional stipend would be, but supporters have mentioned 2,500 Swiss francs a month, which is a little under $2,800.
I asked Jourdan whether giving people money with no strings attached might encourage them to be lazy.
“Everyone wants to do something with his life. The question is whether we trust people to do that or we think we have to force people to take a job,” he said. “The morality of work is fading because people can see that whether they’re working or not, they’re not being rewarded according to their efforts.”
VIDEO: Swiss Federal Bank Weakening the Franc
Jourdan added: “Many supporters of basic income say it’s also a way to distribute better the jobs. In France there are 3 million people who don’t have a job, and 5 million who work too much. We can surely find a better answer than this.”
I came back to the question of whether people would slack off if the government gave them money with no strings attached. “I think it’s really not true that human nature is lazy,” he said. “I think it’s the opposite. We are all creative. We don’t want to drink beers in front of the TV.” He conceded that some people might abuse the system but added, “It’s better to look at the 99 percent and empower them to do what they want, what they would find fulfilling.”
Practiced in the art of public relations, the organizers on Oct. 4 dumped in front of the parliament in Bern a truckload of 8 million five-centime coins, one for each person in Switzerland.
A movement to give every person an “unconditional basic income”—no work required—is gathering speed in Europe. In its biggest victory to date, earlier this month supporters in Switzerland garnered more than 100,000 signatures on a petition and managed to get an initiative onto the national ballot.
“It will be the first time in history that a country will actually vote on whether they want a basic income for all,” Stanislas Jourdan, a “mediactivist” in France who is working on a similar Europe-wide initiative, told me in an interview today. The Europe-wide initiative requires 1 million signatures to get on the ballot and has acquired about 100,000 since the start of 2013.
There is nothing like this happening in the U.S., where conditionality is very much a part of getting government assistance for the young and able-bodied. You can’t collect unemployment insurance without proof that you’re actively looking for a job. And since the Clinton administration, you can’t get welfare without fulfilling welfare-to-work requirements that vary by state. (Here are California’s.)
VIDEO: Several Swiss Banks Probed on Currency Manipulation
The Swiss ballot initiative, which isn’t scheduled yet, doesn’t state how big the unconditional stipend would be, but supporters have mentioned 2,500 Swiss francs a month, which is a little under $2,800.
I asked Jourdan whether giving people money with no strings attached might encourage them to be lazy.
“Everyone wants to do something with his life. The question is whether we trust people to do that or we think we have to force people to take a job,” he said. “The morality of work is fading because people can see that whether they’re working or not, they’re not being rewarded according to their efforts.”
VIDEO: Swiss Federal Bank Weakening the Franc
Jourdan added: “Many supporters of basic income say it’s also a way to distribute better the jobs. In France there are 3 million people who don’t have a job, and 5 million who work too much. We can surely find a better answer than this.”
I came back to the question of whether people would slack off if the government gave them money with no strings attached. “I think it’s really not true that human nature is lazy,” he said. “I think it’s the opposite. We are all creative. We don’t want to drink beers in front of the TV.” He conceded that some people might abuse the system but added, “It’s better to look at the 99 percent and empower them to do what they want, what they would find fulfilling.”
Practiced in the art of public relations, the organizers on Oct. 4 dumped in front of the parliament in Bern a truckload of 8 million five-centime coins, one for each person in Switzerland.
if this passes through, where can i get the applications to be a Swiss national? :p:p:p
