Income Inequality will cost the future generations

[Leongsam]

It is ridiculous to accuse the majority of sinkees as laggards. When the government brings in millions of foreigners to depress wages, don't blame sinkees for refusing to work at 3rd world country type of wages. After all sinkees were promised Swiss Standard of Living and sinkees fulfilled their part but employers did not and opted to bring in foreigners who are willing to work for pennies just because they are accustomed to live like they are back home.


Life is not just struggling. You put in the hard work early on in your career and then expect for better lifestyle in mid-life. But in sinkapore, one has to struggle from career start to death. That's not life.
If this is all sinkapore can offer, then the government needs to be tossed out. It is time to reclaim sinkapore from the foreigners.

Singapore has already achieved the Swiss standard of living. There are loads of poor people in Switzerland too. No country is Utopia.

As for struggling throughout their careers all I can say is that this is happening, you can hardly blame the government. You have to blame Singaporeans for not developing the habit of saving early in their careers. Instead, they spend on items in order to keep up appearances and end up in debt when they should be investing for the future.

I have friends who are comfortably retired and I have friends who are driving taxis to make a living. Both categories earned similar salaries during their PMET carriers. However, the outcomes are different because people make decisions that determine their own destinies.

Life is all about taking personal responsibility for your long term well being both financial and physical. Manage your life well and you'll be a lot healthier and wealthier when retirement come round. Manage it badly and you might well be dead before you get to 50.

 

[Leongsam]

Useless governments are always voted out at general elections. Just look at what happens in democratic countries in Europe, USA, Canada, UK and Australia.

Governments can change but you'll find the same bunch of losers at the bottom of the pile regardless of who is in power.

I've lived NZ for more than a decade, governments have come and gone. I still see the same losers lying in the streets dead drunk and not a penny in their pockets.

 

[winnipegjets]

Singapore has already achieved the Swiss standard of living. There are loads of poor people in Switzerland too. No country is Utopia.

Are you for real? Median take-home pay of $1700 is far from Swiss standard of living. And with public housing costing $300k-$500k, we have a problem.

As for struggling throughout their careers all I can say is that this is happening, you can hardly blame the government. You have to blame Singaporeans for not developing the habit of saving early in their careers. Instead, they spend on items in order to keep up appearances and end up in debt when they should be investing for the future.

Median income of $1700, how much can people save?

I have friends who are comfortably retired and I have friends who are driving taxis to make a living. Both categories earned similar salaries during their PMET carriers. However, the outcomes are different because people make decisions that determine their own destinies.

For every one of your 'successful' friend story, there are 10 struggling sinkees.

 

[Getloud]

Governments can change but you'll find the same bunch of losers at the bottom of the pile regardless of who is in power.

I've lived NZ for more than a decade, governments have come and gone. I still see the same losers lying in the streets dead drunk and not a penny in their pockets.

delete post.

 

[bic_cherry]

Singaporeans struggle with the contradiction that politicians are not quite worth the

Singaporeans struggle with the contradiction that politicians are not quite worth the fee they are paid.

Re thread: Income Inequality will cost the future generations
As you have pointed out yourself, it is a "perception". It does not reflect the reality of the situation.
Singaporeans view public housing as a right and are demanding that they be paid enough so they can afford a roof over their heads without having to struggle to achieve their goals.
However, they have grown so used to having things come easily that they have forgotten that life is all about struggling in one form or another. Some struggle to make ends meet. Some struggle to get promoted. Some struggle to make their first million and so on.
If there was no struggle, the country would be a nation of lotus eaters.
Struggle is a necessary part of human existence. It is the baptism of fire that makes us all stronger and better equipped to face the world.
Remove the struggle and you breed sloth. Why would anyone strive to succeed is they know the government will take care of their needs.
[Boldface added)]

Ditto those with opposing/ left leaning ideas struggle against the rightist PAP politicians
Truth is, the PAP politicians, in moneytising their salaries to world class levels, imposed (election unfriendly) GRC system of elections rather that the NCMP scheme (to 'protect' minority races) to excessvely exploit their incumbant position to make laws to create excessive encumbrance/ obstacles to the opposition participation in parliament; I believe Singaporeans observe this in the monolithic policies created by the existing PAP government.

If public housing isn't affordable to the public, then why call it public? One must note that HDB houses ~90% of the Singapore population, PRs and foreign talents included (the former in resale HDB property, the latter who rent HDB flats from RICH Singaporeans and PR). So the high prevalence of public housing in Singapore also mirrors the octopus control of the PAP over the entire populace, as such the first station of blame and struggle against- is inevitably pointed at the PAP government. Forgive Singaporeans for being skittish, but for many Singaporeans, any material semblance of democracy only happened in the 2011 elections as before then, GRC system imposed walkovers were the prevailent norm and it was the culture in of Singapore that general elections were remembered only as a non-event public holiday.

In short, if Singaporeans were to expect their quality is of life to be proportional to what they pay the politicians of Singapore (as compared to what other countries pay theirs), I believe many Singaporeans have been sorely disappointed and are still so today- they struggle with the contradiction that politicians are not worth the fee that they have been paid.

 

[winnipegjets]

Governments can change but you'll find the same bunch of losers at the bottom of the pile regardless of who is in power.

I've lived NZ for more than a decade, governments have come and gone. I still see the same losers lying in the streets dead drunk and not a penny in their pockets.

We are not talking about policies catering specifically to the bottom 10 percent; we are dealing with the 70 percent.

 

[Leongsam]

Are you for real? Median take-home pay of $1700 is far from Swiss standard of living. And with public housing costing $300k-$500k, we have a problem.


Median income of $1700, how much can people save?


For every one of your 'successful' friend story, there are 10 struggling sinkees.

"Take home pay" distorts the figures. Singaporeans are extremely lucky because they can use their CPF for the most important purchase of their lives which is a roof over their heads. In many cases, this leaves a sizeable portion of the take home pay available for other purposes.

I've been to Switzerland. Life is no bed of roses. There are successful people there and there are losers who sleep in the streets and they have it worse because they freeze to death in winter. For every sinkie sob story, you'll find a Swiss sob story because society is the same wherever you are... there are successful and there are the failures. It's part of the tapestry of what it means to be human.

As for as the ratio between the successful and the struggling, there are far greater forces at play than government policy. Life is what you make of it.

 

[Leongsam]

We are not talking about policies catering specifically to the bottom 10 percent; we are dealing with the 70 percent.

To suggest that 70% of Singaporeans are struggling is ridiculous. Where on earth did you get that figure?

 

[Leongsam]

Re: Singaporeans struggle with the contradiction that politicians are not quite worth

In short, if Singaporeans were to expect their quality is of life to be proportional to what they pay the politicians of Singapore (as compared to what other countries pay theirs), I believe many Singaporeans have been sorely disappointed and are still so today- they struggle with the contradiction that politicians are not worth the fee that they have been paid.

It's a typical "cut off your nose to spite your face" attitude.

If Singaporeans think that all their woes are caused by the PAP govt, I would really like to see a scenario where some opposition party takes over at 1/10th the salary and starts running the show. Perhaps it would help Sinkies understand what the term "struggle" really means.

 

[winnipegjets]

To suggest that 70% of Singaporeans are struggling is ridiculous. Where on earth did you get that figure?

20 percent forms the rich and upper middle class. They will do just fine.

With median take-home income (ie. after CPF deduction) at $1700, 50 percent of sinkees are not enjoying the middle class lifestyle. This amount has yet to account for mortgage and mandatory medical insurance.

 

[Leongsam]

20 percent forms the rich and upper middle class. They will do just fine.

With median take-home income (ie. after CPF deduction) at $1700, 50 percent of sinkees are not enjoying the middle class lifestyle. This amount has yet to account for mortgage and mandatory medical insurance.

What exactly is the "middle class lifestyle"? How is it defined and is the definition the same from country to country?

 

[winnipegjets]

What exactly is the "middle class lifestyle"? How is it defined and is the definition the same from country to country?

In most developed countries, having an income of $60k is considered middle-class. That income can pay off the house in 20 years, health care, kids' education, health and unemployment insurance is covered. And they can afford to take vacation annually. All that accomplished while working 40 hours a week.

 

[bic_cherry]

The reality is that perfect equality is both unattainable and undesirable. Nowhere are wealth and income distributed completely evenly across a population. Countries are all unequal, and that’s generally a good thing. Inequality creates a powerful incentive to work, to invest and to get ahead. More income is the reward for success, which is spread to others when those at the top invest, start new businesses and hire more workers.
But it’s all a question of degree. You can have too much of a good thing.
Former prime minister Paul Martin, 75, figures he’s part of the most fortunate generation in Canadian history. He entered the work force in the booming 1960s, at the vanguard of an age group that would only know rising incomes and boundless opportunity.
But Mr. Martin frets that Canada is now drifting towards a society of extremes and a hollow middle – conditions he argues have helped spawn the anti-government Tea Party movement in the United States.

Guess equality is about broad, moral based focus. Things like skin colour and actual take home income can never be exactly same but to not make everyone equal before the law would be to miss the woods for the trees.

Good leadership means equality of opportunity to education, employment, housing etc- not the communist type equality where equality was just a bait, not the truthful intent/ the ultimate aim across all natural (race) divisions that is.

 

[bic_cherry]

Cut out the cancer to save a life.

Cut out the cancer to save a life.

It's a typical "cut off your nose to spite your face" attitude.
If Singaporeans think that all their woes are caused by the PAP govt, I would really like to see a scenario where some opposition party takes over at 1/10th the salary and starts running the show. Perhaps it would help Sinkies understand what the term "struggle" really means.

Hi Leongsam, no offence, but I think PAP can only be elevated to the term "face" if and only if:
1) it remove its MP and MP wannabes from any position of executive in the PA(people's Association)- MP are by tradition the legislative, to place them in position of executive ("adviser to grassroots")- has turned them into ultra civil servants which alludes to the logic that Mr Ngiam Tong Dow aluded to, the legislative and the executive (civil service) in Singapore- they are one and the same thing.
2) The GRC system of election is a joke and should be scrapped in favour of a NCMP scheme for minority MP representation (guranteed min minority rep as is now the case). Singaporeans have been cheated of many by elections as the rule that there need a minimum of just ONE (any race) MP per GRC before by elections are necessary (sect24(2A)) not only betrays the original concept of racial representation, it makes a mockery of the group concept of representation, its prejudices against small political parties notwithstanding.

All in all, these PAP policies arethe early stage cancers in Singapore's political landscape. What might now be no more didficult than just a nose job, could one day turn out to be lifesaving radical emergency surgery.

Whilst I'm not expecting the opposition to completely run the show " at 1/10th the salary", to 'bar' the opposition from parliament with the PA political civil service and the ridiculous GRC election schemes- is quite over the top don't you think?

PS: I'm not saying the whole of PAP is cancer, just the PA-PAP MP privilege politicians scheme and the GRC system of elections scheme (to be revised to NC(racial)MP scheme)- these are the parts to be amanded/ removed etc.

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[bic_cherry]

Governments can change but you'll find the same bunch of losers at the bottom of the pile regardless of who is in power.
I've lived NZ for more than a decade, governments have come and gone. I still see the same losers lying in the streets dead drunk and not a penny in their pockets.

Hi Leong, there are losers and then there are 'losers', Mahatma Ghandi lost many times against the British, many times he spent years in jail at a stretch and even grew the humour to call it "hospitality of the prime minister" (or something like that). Ultimately, he became one of the founding fathers of independent India.

So losers are not losers and likewise pyrrhic victory is not sweet.

Tks.

 

[PrinceCharming]

bic_cherry,

I don't know what your real intention is when you posted many articles to this thread.

If you really wish to get your point across to the 40%, I suggest you re-post your contributions on forums of our local polytechnics and universities. Our tertiary students must be made aware of what will be in store for them when they graduate.

 

[Asterix]

Singapore has already achieved the Swiss standard of living. There are loads of poor people in Switzerland too. No country is Utopia.
..................

Really? Here are the facts on this one issue of poverty alone from the Swiss perspective. Do you have similar data on the situation in Sinkieland? How does it compare with Switzerland? No data no talk!

The number of working people living in poverty in Switzerland dropped from 5.2 per cent in 2008 to 3.5 per cent in 2010—or from 180,000 to around 120,000—according to a report released on Tuesday by the Federal Statistics Office.

The reduction in the number of working poor can be explained by a corresponding overall drop in the unemployment rate, which sank from 3.3 per cent in 2008 to 2.6 per cent in 2010, the report said.

“Working poor” are people who have jobs but are unable to meet their basic needs with their incomes. In 2010, the poverty level in Switzerland was defined by the Statistics Office as SFr2,250 ($2,411) a month for a single person and SFr4000 a month for a family of two adults and two children under the age of 14.

The group most often affected by poverty are single parents with one or more children. One in five single-parent families lives under the poverty line.

Other groups that have a higher-than-average incidence of poverty are people living in households where only one person works (7.3 per cent), workers who live alone (6.7 per cent), workers without post-compulsory education (6.7 per cent) and women (4.8 per cent).

The type of work is also an indication of whether a person belongs to the group of working poor. This includes self-employed workers without employees (9.9 per cent), people who work in private households (8.3 per cent) or the hospitality industry (7.7 per cent), and people who work only part of the year (7.4 per cent) or who work part-time (5.2 per cent).

Only 1.4 per cent of Swiss households with two working persons are poor.

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/swiss_news/Report_finds_fewer_Swiss_working_poor.html?cid=33794306

 

[jw5]

There's nothing wrong with income inequality if the value of your work justifies it.

The greater problem for S'pore is income inequity.

Think about the damage the antics of a certain premium toothpick collector for example, will cost the mindsets of current and future generations.
These people will grow up thinking that not only can you get away but also thrive by performing sucn antics.
This is the saddest part, and not income disparity......................... :(

 

[bic_cherry]

bic_cherry,
I don't know what your real intention is when you posted many articles to this thread.
If you really wish to get your point across to the 40%, I suggest you re-post your contributions on forums of our local polytechnics and universities. Our tertiary students must be made aware of what will be in store for them when they graduate.

No special motive, the articles quoted are all over the internet and I believe that the younger generation should have already accessed them if they haven't spent all their time playing computer games or just trying to get employed by the bank or the MNC next door.

Hitler killed many Jews in Germany and the surrounding countries as WW2 progressed. However, many Jews, such as some great philosophers and other scholars emigrated out of Hitler's grasp before it became too late to decide.

To those who know, let them react. To those who cannot see, the blind leadeth the blind and they all fall into the ditch.

Anyhow, if I can type this out in Singapore on the internet, then the situation cannot be too bad.

Just like walkover elections, many Singaporeans will probably just sleep-over the best things in life.

PS: denial does not resolve the typo you made on page 1 of this thread.

 

[Leongsam]

Really? Here are the facts on this one issue of poverty alone from the Swiss perspective. Do you have similar data on the situation in Sinkieland? How does it compare with Switzerland? No data no talk!

Here's the figures I have :

Switzerland :

[TABLE="width: 770"]
<tbody>[TR="class: eur_light"]
[TD]Population below poverty line:
[/TD]
[TD="align: right"][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]7.9% (2010)


[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]