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How deadly is the coronavirus?

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
bbc.com

How deadly is the coronavirus?
Nick Triggle

7-8 minutes


Woman wearing a face mask looks out of a window
Image copyright Getty Images

Each day, news of more deaths is a huge source of alarm to people across the country - as well as a tragedy for the families involved.

Projections of how bad the outbreak could get have prompted ministers to put the country into lockdown. But what are death figures really telling us? And how bad is it going to get?

Is coronavirus causing the deaths?

The death figures being reported daily are hospital cases where a person dies with the coronavirus infection in their body - because it is a notifiable disease cases have to be reported.

But what the figures do not tell us is to what extent the virus is causing the death.

It could be the major cause, a contributory factor or simply present when they are dying of something else.

Coronavirus figures for 1 April


Most people who die with coronavirus have an underlying health condition, such as heart disease or diabetes, that may be more of a factor.

For example, an 18-year-old in Coventry tested positive for coronavirus the day before he died and was reported as its youngest victim at the time.

But the hospital subsequently released a statement saying his death had been due to a separate "significant" health condition and not connected to the virus.
There are, however, other cases, including health workers and a 13-year-old boy from London, who died with no known health conditions.

The Office for National Statistics is now trying to determine the proportion of these deaths that are caused specifically by coronavirus.
How many could die?

Chart showing the estimated death toll from coronavirus in different scenarios


Imperial College London modelling, used to inform government, has suggested 500,000 could have died by August in the UK if the virus was left to rip through the population.

It also warned the government's previous strategy to slow the spread by asking those with symptoms to self-isolate and shield the most vulnerable could have led to 250,000 deaths.

Now, it is hoped the lockdown will limit deaths to 20,000.

But that does not mean 480,000 lives are being saved - many will die whether or not they get the virus.

Every year, about 600,000 people in the UK die. And the frail and elderly are most at risk, just as they are if they have coronavirus.

Nearly 10% of people aged over 80 will die in the next year, Prof Sir David Spiegelhalter, at the University of Cambridge, points out, and the risk of them dying if infected with coronavirus is almost exactly the same.

Chances of dying from coronavirus vs normal risk


That does not mean there will be no extra deaths - but, Sir David says, there will be "a substantial overlap".

"Many people who die of Covid [the disease caused by coronavirus] would have died anyway within a short period," he says.

Knowing exactly how many is impossible to tell at this stage.

Prof Neil Ferguson, the lead modeller at Imperial College London, has suggested it could be up to two-thirds.

But while deaths without the virus would be spread over the course of a year, those with the virus could come quickly and overwhelm the health service.

How effective is the lockdown?

The most immediate way to judge the current policy is to see if the health service manages to cope with the coronavirus cases it sees in the coming weeks.
Beyond that, the key measure will be what is called excess deaths - the difference between the expected number of deaths and actual deaths.

This is closely monitored during flu seasons. During recent winters, there have been about 17,000 excess deaths from flu a year, Public Health England says.

Graphic showing symptoms of coronavirus


This, of course, can be done in the future only. But researchers at University College London have been trying to model it in advance.

If coronavirus turns out to be no more deadly than flu, the lockdown could limit the number of excess deaths to under 1,400 - more than 12,000 fewer than would have happened under the previous strategy of slowing its spread, before the decision was taken to move to lockdown.

If it turns out to be five times more deadly than flu, the lockdown could limit coronavirus to 6,900 extra deaths - more than 60,000 fewer than under the previous strategy.

What about the impact of the lockdown?

The lockdown, itself, however could cost lives.

Prof Robert Dinwall, from Nottingham Trent University, says "the collateral damage to society and the economy" could include:
  • mental health problems and suicides linked to self-isolation
  • heart problems from lack of activity
  • the impact on health from increased unemployment and reduced living standards
Others have also pointed to the health cost from steps such as delaying routine operations and cancer screening.

Meanwhile, University of Bristol researchers say the benefit of a long-term lockdown in reducing premature deaths could be outweighed by the lost life expectancy from a prolonged economic dip.

And the tipping point, they say, is a 6.4% decline in the size of the economy - on a par with what happened following the 2008 financial crash.

It would see a loss of three months of life on average across the population because of factors from declining living standards to poorer health care.

What will happen next?

A nurse in protective wear taking a temperature

Image copyright Getty Images

The policies in place at the moment are aimed at suppressing the peak by stopping the spread of the virus.

Once the peak has passed, decisions will have to be taken about what to do next.

The virus will not simply have gone away and with a vaccine at least a year away, the challenge will be how to manage the virus.

A balance will need to be struck between keeping it at bay and trying to control its spread to avoid a second peak, while allowing the country to return to normal.
Seeing the full picture in terms of lives saved and lives lost will be essential in getting those calls right.
 

PretenderSam

Alfrescian
Loyal
The vile curses pouring out from your cheebye mouth and the perpetual hatred harboured in your mind against the chinks is more deadly than the virus.
 

Froggy

Alfrescian (InfP) + Mod
Moderator
Generous Asset
I’m always listening and obeying my Prime Minister’s words so I’m starting to do like him now

87ABD48C-AE73-4746-B04A-D22535AA2268.jpeg
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
From fine to flailing
in just one day


https://reut.rs/2y4d5ms



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Sounds nasty but the flu is no different. In fact it sounds worse.


today.com

Here’s how the flu kills some people so quickly


6-7 minutes


A 10-year-old Connecticut boy died of flu. So did a 21-year-old bodybuilder, and 4-year-old Jonah Reiben of Dayton, Ohio.

These are not the usual sick and elderly people who die from influenza. But every year, flu carries away perfectly healthy young adults and children, and tens of thousands of people over 65.

How does flu kill, and why does it sometimes kill so quickly?





Doctors who study the body’s immune response say there are three main reasons: co-infection with another germ, usually bacteria such as strep; aggravation of existing conditions such as heart disease and asthma; and a so-called cytokine storm, marked by an overwhelming immune system response to infection.

Sometimes this can happen very fast. During the 1918 “Spanish flu” pandemic that killed up to 50 million people a century ago, many people were reported to have died within hours of showing their first symptoms.

Researchers who have gone back and re-examined tissue samples, and read reports from the time, believe most deaths were caused by co-infection with another germ. But many of the healthy young men and women who died quickly of flu that year more likely succumbed to cytokine storms.

The human immune system has a load of weapons to throw out against infections, including cytokines produced by a variety of immune system cells.

“Those substances work to stop the virus from spreading,” said Dr. Amesh Adalja, an infectious disease specialist and senior scholar at the Johns Hopkins University Center for Health Security.

They cause the typical “flu-like symptoms” that bring misery from flu and other infections.






“The muscle aches, the fever — all of that is the result of the immune system responding to the virus,” Adalja said. That’s why so many diseases cause similar symptoms: it’s the body’s response, not the particular invader, that’s to blame.

Trending stories,celebrity news and all the best of TODAY.

But different people have differently composed immune systems.

“In certain individuals there can be a very pronounced immune response that can result in a lot of damage to the cells in your body including the cells in the respiratory tract," Adalja said.

When a virus is new, like the 1918 strain of H1N1 and the 2009 H1N1 “swine flu”, it usually kills far more people. One theory is that the immune system can become overwhelmed by the never-before-seen invader and sends so many troops to fight it that perfectly healthy tissue in the lungs and other organs gets killed, too.
People who die from “bird flu” viruses, such as H5N1 or H7N9, also seem to die via an over-the-top immune response.

And these newer viruses also tend to kill younger people, perhaps because the older population may have been exposed to a distant relative of the virus in the past. The H1N1 flu virus killed 282 U.S. children in 2009-2010, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says. It may have infected 61 million people.

Now it’s just part of the annual flu mix and while it is circulating and killing some people this year, it’s the H3N2 strain that is suspected of causing most problems this time around.

One experiment showed that certain “new” genes in these never-before-seen viruses help them thrive deep in the lungs, which can cause pneumonia and might provoke an overwhelming immune response.

While a few people seem to die within hours or days, flu can cause lingering sickness in others. Then they become susceptible to other infections, such as streptococcal or staphylococcal bacterial infections.





These secondary infections can damage organs, cause pneumonia or get into the bloodstream, causing another kind of immune system overreaction called sepsis.
So far this season, flu has killed 30 children, according to the latest CDC data. Last season, 110 children died from influenza in the U.S.

The CDC doesn’t precisely count adult flu deaths, in no small part because it just kills so many. Every year, flu kills 12,000 to 56,000 people and sends as many as 700,000 to the hospital.

CDC estimates flu deaths by looking at how many more people than usual died of flu and pneumonia, but even those calculations miss people who may have died from flu complications, such as a heart attack set off by a bout of flu.

For patients with asthma or other lung conditions, flu is just one more problem for the lungs to cope with.

“They are already having breathing difficulties. It can put them into a spiral very quickly where their breathing gets compromised,” Adalja said.

Patients with diabetes already have a damaged immune response, so they also are more susceptible to flu.





And pregnant women have a double risk. “Pregnant women are in a state of immunosuppression because the immune system is trying not to reject the fetus,” said Adalja. So the virus can get further, faster in their bodies.

Plus, their lungs are compressed by the fetus, so they have less breathing capacity. Humans need a certain level of oxygen and if blood oxygen levels fall too far, they enter a state called hypoxia. Hypoxia can cause organ damage within minutes.

That’s why bluish skin or difficulty breathing is an emergency that requires immediate medical care.

The best defense against flu, the CDC, FDA, pediatricians and other health experts agree, is a flu vaccine. Just about everyone over the age of 6 months should get one and it's still not to late to do it.

And flu is spread by droplets that can linger on surfaces such as counter tops, which is why hand-washing is so important. It also spreads via sneezing and coughing and, perhaps, may float in the air on tiny droplets emitted by simple breathing.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
Maybe we should take more notice of the flu from now on too.

Shutdown economy when there is flu outbreak

Hey this is the new normal man.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
Maybe we should take more notice of the flu from now on too.

Shutdown economy when there is flu outbreak

Hey this is the new normal man.

After digging up all the info to compare Covid-19 with influenza I've now scared myself shitless over flu.

I had my flu shot but it's less than 50% effective. I have Tamiflu on standby so I hope it works if I take it quickly.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
After digging up all the info to compare Covid-19 with influenza I've now scared myself shitless over flu.

I had my flu shot but it's less than 50% effective. I have Tamiflu on standby so I hope it works if I take it quickly.

As we age we go up the grim reaper's list.
 

nayr69sg

Super Moderator
Staff member
SuperMod
Thanks for the comforting words. Much appreciated.
Boss sam.

At the end of the day we live in a city or town which is part of a province or state which is part of a country which is part of the world.

Majority wins. Some things you cannot change one person alone.

Jim Rohn Quotes
It is the set of the sails, not the direction of the wind that determines which way we will go.

No point fighting the majority. Try to find how to work within the majority. If it doesnt work find a different majority to be amongst.

There are still options available now. Sweden for example. Or as you said Iceland.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset
There are still options available now. Sweden for example. Or as you said Iceland.

Too many liberal retards in both countries. I'll probably opt for Vietnam. Very safe and zero deaths no matter what nasty disease you catch.
 

Leongsam

High Order Twit / Low SES subject
Admin
Asset

Pretty much a summary of what is already obvious. With such a large percentage of asymptomatic cases there is no way to eliminate the virus.

We cannot maintain lockdowns for months or years hoping to beat the virus into submission.

The best course of action is to get back to normal asap and deal with the relatively minor consequences.

Everyone needs to realise that without the economy going there'll be no money to treat anyone for anything not just Covid-19. No money for chemo, no money for life saving operations, no money for drugs to treat HIV, heart disease and all the other major killers. For each old fart saved we will have to sacrifice the lives of hundreds of those who are in their prime.
 

syed putra

Alfrescian
Loyal
There are still options available now. Sweden for example. Or as you said Iceland.

  1. WORLD
  2. COVID-19
  3. SWEDEN'S RELAXED APPROACH TO THE CORONAVIRUS COULD ALREADY BE BACKFIRING
Sweden's Relaxed Approach to the Coronavirus Could Already Be Backfiring


WHO Health Specialist Warns European Countries That Now Is "Not the Time to Relax Measures"
A health specialist at the World Health Organization warned European countries now is "not the time to relax measures" in the battle against the coronavirus.
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BY MÉLISSA GODIN
APRIL 9, 2020
When Chloe Fu, 24, went for a run on Monday evening, the streets of Stockholm were filled with people drinking on restaurant patios, enjoying the first warm day of sunshine after a long winter.
“When you walk around, there is a total and utter absence of panic,” Fu says, who moved to Sweden from the United States last year. “The streets are just as busy as they would have been last spring.”
As many public spaces throughout Europe empty out—with citizens only leaving home for essential groceries or medication—life in Sweden is carrying on, mostly as usual. Children walk to school while adults meet up for dinner at their local bar. Only the vulnerable have been advised to isolate and some are working from home. Yet in Sweden, where there are 9,141 confirmed cases and 793 people have died, experts worry weaker measures may be leading to a more severe outbreak in the country of just 10 million citizens.
Sweden has a relatively high case fatality rate: as of April 8, 7.68% of the Swedes who have tested positive for COVID-19 have died of the virus. Neighboring countries, like Norway and Denmark, have case fatality rates of 1.46% and 3.85% respectively. (The U.S. case fatality rate is 3.21%.) While Sweden’s elevated case fatality rate could be a result of its low testing rates compared to its neighbors, experts say Sweden’s laissez-faire approach could also be to blame.

The Swedish government continues to advocate for relaxed measures. The Swedish Public Health Agency cautions citizens to cover their mouths when they cough or sneeze and wash hands regularly but does not call for lockdown measures. On March 11, the government cut down the size of permitted gatherings to 500, and only lowered that down to 50 on March 29. Other countries, like Germany and Australia, have prohibited gathering in groups larger than two. On Monday, Sweden declared that domestic flights would continue running, despite the risks domestic travel poses for spreading the disease.
Anders Tegnell, Sweden’s chief epidemiologist overseeing the government’s response to COVID-19 has said the government should allow the virus to spread slowly through the population, an approach initially employed by the United Kingdom and the Netherlands before both countries rapidly changed strategy amid mounting evidence that this approach would still overburden health care systems. Tegnell told Swedish TV on April 5 that COVID-19 could be stopped by “herd immunity or a combination of immunity and vaccination.” (A vaccine for COVID-19 is likely at least 14 months away.)
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But many experts throughout Sweden say the current strategy is dangerous.
“Herd immunity doesn’t make sense because we don’t know whether or not you can become immune,” says Nele Brusselaers, an associate professor of clinical epidemiology. She added, “this is a virus that can kill anybody.”
Keep up to date with our daily coronavirus newsletter by clicking here.
At the end of March, 2,300 doctors, scientists and academics signed an open letter to the government calling for stricter measures.
“We think there is no scientific evidence for their strategy,” says Cecilia Söderberg-Nauclér, an expert in microbial pathogenesis who signed the letter. She says the government has been reluctant to share its data with scientists, leading her to believe that the government’s strategy is “not based on evidence.”
Carina King, an infectious diseases epidemiologist, agrees that the government’s lack of transparency makes it “really hard to give proper scientific thoughts on their approach because they haven’t released their science.” She added that the government has made no concrete efforts to test, contact trace and quarantine—as South Korea did—which is standard protocol to stop localized spread at the beginning of an outbreak.
Nevertheless, she says Sweden could be a rare case where a nationwide lockdown may not be necessary. “Sweden is unique,” she says. “It doesn’t have many intergenerational households. It is a country where you could have a mixed approach.”
 
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