Chitchat Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept OT!

[JohnTan]

I see Madam Tay Lee Chuan's proposal ("MOE should control teachers' working hours"; Thursday) as unrealistic, from a service and practical standpoint.

For a start, to blame the principal for pushing staff to work beyond school hours is ignoring the fact that most of the time, the principal himself also attends to after-school activities and is, therefore, not immune to putting in extra hours during week nights and weekends.

The school is providing a service, with its customers being primarily the students who are minors, and the parents. Students need constant chaperoning.



Parents pick schools with the "best service" to maximise the potential of their children. They have a strong preference for schools with the best results in major exams and strong showing at co-curricular activity (CCA) competitions, which means extra class time and training to boost results.

Most parents have full-time jobs and are not able to attend meet-the-parents sessions or student performances during normal school hours. Therefore, it is not realistic to have such sessions during weekday school hours.

Most parents have full-time jobs and are not able to attend meet-the-parents sessions or student performances during normal school hours. Therefore, it is not realistic to have such sessions during weekday school hours.
As a grassroots leader, I am also aware that in many yearly major events organised by community centres, the nearby schools are invited to showcase talents, for example, in the performing arts.

This will involve students and teachers putting in extra effort to prepare or rehearse after school. This will benefit students, giving them better CCA grading and outside-the-classroom learning experiences.

All this comes at a price for everyone involved.

Quite often, schools will do their best to ask parent volunteers to chaperone or help out at such extra school activities, but few actually turn up.

Therefore, more teachers are needed on such occasions.

If the Education Ministry can train more teachers to replace those who resign, why not use the same effort to cut class size and share the work load?

Lee Wei Yin (Ms)

http://www.straitstimes.com/forum/letters-in-print/working-after-school-hours-part-of-service

 

[kryonlight]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

I support Ms Lee Wei Yin. We should screw the MOE teachers who don't have the balls to protest against MOE. Make them work 24 hours a day until karoshi. MOE teachers are worthless that's why there are so many tuition centres all over this stupid island.

 

[rocket]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

Why teacher never complain they holiday too during school holidays.

Which other job offer this.

A teaher salary is $4- $10++k

 

[EnBloc]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

When teachers work in the schools, they are abused by the principal, the parents and even the students. For that, they are paid about $50,000 a year

When they become super tutors, they are worshipped by parents, students and the media. And they can get up to $1,000,000

 

[zhihau]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

Why teacher never complain they holiday too during school holidays.

Which other job offer this.

A teaher salary is $4- $10++k

Bro,

For the uninitiated, the starting pay of a teacher (w/a degree) is currently $3100-$3500. Teachers from the baby boomer years currently taking about $8K at the ceiling after teaching for 30 years. Only the VPs and Ps are on super scale pay.

It's true life as a teacher was better in the past, I'm referring to the 80s when Teachers were still feared and respected. This whole holiday lure is pure fallacy: take the March and September holiday for example, my friends in the teaching fraternity are usually busy with either meetings and/or camps.

The June holiday is pretty much the same as some CCA conducts their annual competitions in July, the students and teachers are down for training at higher intensity and frequency. Coupled with meetings to analyse the progress of the students and to plan for the second half of the year; and not forgetting courses teachers take to enhance their professional development.

The post exam period at the end of a school year is also filled with loads of analysis and I think the only reprieve is probably the December holidays, 3 weeks worth of down time to recharge. The last week of December can see the school humming with activities again with results announcements and registration, more planning and meetings.

21 days of "off day" not bad eh?

 

[frenchbriefs]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

maybe child raising should be outsourced to the government,sinkies seems to have a high tendency not to want to raise their own kids unlike in the west or australia....from young,sinkies are dumped at child care centers and preschools while mommy,daddy go out to work they become the responsibility of some indo or burmese caretaker,later when the kids are older,they are delegated to pinoy maids who have the responsibility of raising them like a bunch of tagalog rats,god knows how many sinkies kids i see wandering around singapore with their pinoy maids in some sort of weird master slave soxiante neuf relationship,later when they become older,they become the responsibility of schools and teachers to babysit sinkies children from 7am to 5pm,while daddy and mommy go out to work.

no wonder theres such a high incidence of elderly in singapore being left to rot in state care facilities and left to pick cardboard on the streets.....most sinkies are raised by institutions and foreigners,why would they care about parents who never bonded with them for the first twenty years of their lives?the concept of a mother and father is a strange alien concept to them when they spend 90 percent of their waking hours in some child care center,or maid's company or school or institution.

go to australia instead......its a country where people actually have time to be human beings and appreciate life and the world they live in.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

Bro,

For the uninitiated, the starting pay of a teacher (w/a degree) is currently $3100-$3500. Teachers from the baby boomer years currently taking about $8K at the ceiling after teaching for 30 years. Only the VPs and Ps are on super scale pay.

It's true life as a teacher was better in the past, I'm referring to the 80s when Teachers were still feared and respected. This whole holiday lure is pure fallacy: take the March and September holiday for example, my friends in the teaching fraternity are usually busy with either meetings and/or camps.

The June holiday is pretty much the same as some CCA conducts their annual competitions in July, the students and teachers are down for training at higher intensity and frequency. Coupled with meetings to analyse the progress of the students and to plan for the second half of the year; and not forgetting courses teachers take to enhance their professional development.

The post exam period at the end of a school year is also filled with loads of analysis and I think the only reprieve is probably the December holidays, 3 weeks worth of down time to recharge. The last week of December can see the school humming with activities again with results announcements and registration, more planning and meetings.

21 days of "off day" not bad eh?

I can confirm this as i have friends and relatives that are in the teaching profession. I would add that although many teachers work way beyond 40 hr a week, they are compensated for this in the form of bonuses. I am constantly shocked by the 5 figure bonuses that my friends regularly make for meeting their KPIs. In addition, on retirement or semi retirement, they also can give tuition which is an extra source of income not available to other retirees. eg if you retire from the SAF , you cannot do soldiering part time. You have to do another profession like a taxi driver, not so for teachers. many teachers gross over $100K including bonuses. Last year, one of my teacher friends had an $18K bonus.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

maybe child raising should be outsourced to the government,sinkies seems to have a high tendency not to want to raise their own kids unlike in the west or australia....from young,sinkies are dumped at child care centers and preschools while mommy,daddy go out to work they become the responsibility of some indo or burmese caretaker,later when the kids are older,they are delegated to pinoy maids who have the responsibility of raising them like a bunch of tagalog rats,god knows how many sinkies kids i see wandering around singapore with their pinoy maids in some sort of weird master slave soxiante neuf relationship,later when they become older,they become the responsibility of schools and teachers to babysit sinkies children from 7am to 5pm,while daddy and mommy go out to work.

no wonder theres such a high incidence of elderly in singapore being left to rot in state care facilities and left to pick cardboard on the streets.....most sinkies are raised by institutions and foreigners,why would they care about parents who never bonded with them for the first twenty years of their lives?the concept of a mother and father is a strange alien concept to them when they spend 90 percent of their waking hours in some child care center,or maid's company or school or institution.

go to australia instead......its a country where people actually have time to be human beings and appreciate life and the world they live in.

Well said, even the limited time they spend with the parents is not quality time. eg they are face deep in their Ipads and playstations while seating at the dinner table with their parents. they hardly talk at all.

 

[flatearther]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

most sinkies are raised by institutions and foreigners,why would they care about parents who never bonded with them for the first twenty years of their lives?the concept of a mother and father is a strange alien concept to them when they spend 90 percent of their waking hours in some child care center,or maid's company or school or institution.

Well said, even the limited time they spend with the parents is not quality time. eg they are face deep in their Ipads and playstations while seating at the dinner table with their parents. they hardly talk at all.

That is the Sinkie version of a:
wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysfunctional_family

 

[zhihau]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

Last year, one of my teacher friends had an $18K bonus.

Bro,

Make a distinction between annual bonuses and something else. Teachers get a performance bonus of about close to a month's worth in April, the 13th month bonus at the end of the year. That 5 digit bonus you've mentioned is a compensation called a connect plan which is dished out only after serving for some number of years, e.g. on the 4th year of service, 7th, 10th, etc. 18K payout is given in December after 25 years of service.

In short, it's not a yearly 5 digit bonus as you've claimed. By crude calculations, I reckoned teachers need to be in service for at least a decade before hitting a 100 grand annually after adding the bonuses. In private sectors, you'd be earning more than 100K/year a lot faster?


Source: https://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2007/pr20071228.htm

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

Bro,

Make a distinction between annual bonuses and something else. Teachers get a performance bonus of about close to a month's worth in April, the 13th month bonus at the end of the year. That 5 digit bonus you've mentioned is a compensation called a connect plan which is dished out only after serving for some number of years, e.g. on the 4th year of service, 7th, 10th, etc. 18K payout is given in December after 25 years of service.

In short, it's not a yearly 5 digit bonus as you've claimed. By crude calculations, I reckoned teachers need to be in service for at least a decade before hitting a 100 grand annually after adding the bonuses. In private sectors, you'd be earning more than 100K/year a lot faster?


Source: https://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2007/pr20071228.htm

Why should I distinguish between annual bonuses and something else? I am talking total compensation here. How many MOE personnel make over $100K a year? A hell of a lot. And frankly, I am not concerned about what kind of bonus or connect plan they are getting, I am only concerned about the total package outside of their base that they get, and that is in the 5 figure range for many teachers.

 

[JohnTan]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

Bro,

Make a distinction between annual bonuses and something else. Teachers get a performance bonus of about close to a month's worth in April, the 13th month bonus at the end of the year. That 5 digit bonus you've mentioned is a compensation called a connect plan which is dished out only after serving for some number of years, e.g. on the 4th year of service, 7th, 10th, etc. 18K payout is given in December after 25 years of service.

In short, it's not a yearly 5 digit bonus as you've claimed. By crude calculations, I reckoned teachers need to be in service for at least a decade before hitting a 100 grand annually after adding the bonuses. In private sectors, you'd be earning more than 100K/year a lot faster?


Source: https://www.moe.gov.sg/media/press/2007/pr20071228.htm

Guaranteed 13th month bonus, performance bonus, connect plan payouts every 4th, 7th, 10th year, etc.

That's mighty generous of the PAP government.

In the private sector, 13th month bonus is not guaranteed. Why should I have to pay 13th month bonus when my workers are contracted to only work 12 months a year?

I give out 13th month bonus as a token of my generosity. It's not their entitlement. And I wouldn't pay a 4th or 7th year bonus whatever it is called simply because the employee has been with me long enough.

Little wonder my taxes have been going up. It's all going to pay fat-cat teachers high salaries and excessive bonuses.

I am now pissed. We pay teachers so much and like so many other parents, I still have to fork out money to send my kids for tuition?

 

[zhihau]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

I am only concerned about the total package outside of their base that they get, and that is in the 5 figure range for many teachers.

I've mentioned earlier only VPs and above may hit super scale, i.e. 5 digit monthly.
As of those hitting 100K/year gross, I make an estimate of around 35% of the 33,000 to hit that range.

 

[zhihau]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

I am now pissed. We pay teachers so much and like so many other parents, I still have to fork out money to send my kids for tuition?

The tuition industry is fueled by kiasu parents like you and many others. The teachers aren't earning much that's why they moonlight to keep up with the rising costs of living. Survival of the fittest mah.

 

[JohnTan]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

The tuition industry is fueled by kiasu parents like you and many others. The teachers aren't earning much that's why they moonlight to keep up with the rising costs of living. Survival of the fittest mah.

According to other samsters, teachers are earning a lot, at least more than the average sinkie PMET. Teachers don't have to worry about pay cuts or retrenchments. Teachers are paid with 13th month bonuses, performance bonuses and a bonus connect plan every 4th, 7th, 10th year of their teaching tenures. Very few sinkie PMETs can claim they receive similar benefits.

So it is only right to insist that teachers work at least 10 to 12 hours day, inclusive of free OT.

 

[bodycells]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

There is nothing wrong to expect a doggy slave to work free.

Sinkie losers lower themselves to slave dog for PAP are to be treated this way.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

I've mentioned earlier only VPs and above may hit super scale, i.e. 5 digit monthly.
As of those hitting 100K/year gross, I make an estimate of around 35% of the 33,000 to hit that range.

35% of your work force makes $100K gross is damn bloody high!! They should stop whining about their OT.

 

[Papsmearer]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

Guaranteed 13th month bonus, performance bonus, connect plan payouts every 4th, 7th, 10th year, etc.

That's mighty generous of the PAP government.

In the private sector, 13th month bonus is not guaranteed. Why should I have to pay 13th month bonus when my workers are contracted to only work 12 months a year?

I give out 13th month bonus as a token of my generosity. It's not their entitlement. And I wouldn't pay a 4th or 7th year bonus whatever it is called simply because the employee has been with me long enough.

Little wonder my taxes have been going up. It's all going to pay fat-cat teachers high salaries and excessive bonuses.

I am now pissed. We pay teachers so much and like so many other parents, I still have to fork out money to send my kids for tuition?

U better believe there are fat cats over there. U can go into MOE and from top to bottom, eliminate 20% of the staff and 20% of the budget without any noticeable decline in quality. Ask yourself how much MOE spend to send the 9 principals of the SAP schools to China every year for free hotel and airfare, just to recruit PRC secondary students to their schools and offer them free scholarships. basically, its giving them free holiday there.

 

[zhihau]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

According to other samsters, teachers are earning a lot, at least more than the average sinkie PMET.

How much does the average PMET earns per year?

 

[zhihau]

Re: Grassroots Leader: Working Overtime For Free Is Expected! Teachers Should Accept

U better believe there are fat cats over there. U can go into MOE and from top to bottom, eliminate 20% of the staff and 20% of the budget without any noticeable decline in quality. Ask yourself how much MOE spend to send the 9 principals of the SAP schools to China every year for free hotel and airfare, just to recruit PRC secondary students to their schools and offer them free scholarships. basically, its giving them free holiday there.

As of your fat cats, look no further than the scholars.

The free scholarships is something I don't fathom as well - some 200 PRC kids scouted per year and how many actually grew roots in Sinkiestan?