They forget that that it is the human element ie the soldiers, that propel an army.
You may have all the best fighting equipment but the morale and fighting spirit of a conscript army is far from being the best.
-
IP addresses are NOT logged in this forum so there's no point asking. Please note that this forum is full of homophobes, racists, lunatics, schizophrenics & absolute nut jobs with a smattering of geniuses, Chinese chauvinists, Moderate Muslims and last but not least a couple of "know-it-alls" constantly sprouting their dubious wisdom. If you believe that content generated by unsavory characters might cause you offense PLEASE LEAVE NOW! Sammyboy Admin and Staff are not responsible for your hurt feelings should you choose to read any of the content here. The OTHER forum is HERE so please stop asking.
Serious Driver NSF's fault, not Bionix! Govt never to blame!
- Thread starter steffychun
- Start date
They forget that that it is the human element ie the soldiers, that propel an army.
You may have all the best fighting equipment but the morale and fighting spirit of a conscript army is far from being the best.
In life there are numerous responsibilities that we have to take on despite the fact that they are hardly enjoyable pursuits. NS is one of them. It's not a walk in the park, it's not an entertaining interlude but it plays a vital role in Singapore's very existence and it has to be done whether we like it or not.
Conscripts should adopt the right attitude and take training seriously instead of just mucking around to pass the time while ignoring their own safety in the process.
not sure if you really understand my response!
armour hq changed SOP? why was there a ground guide during combat training? where got encounter "enemy fire" then sect comd get off to be ground guide one? it did not add up. the only time have ground guide is during laagar. if not the VC stand up and look over the turret to guide the vehicle to reverse or VC get the Sect Comd to look over the cargo hatch to check for clearance before issue reverse order.
normally the best CVC helmets are for driver and VC. how many ppl were in the BX when the accident happen? if infantry still on board, then the sect comd and MG gunner shd be standing up, then the more no reason for accident to happen. Since it was PC vehicle, then the spare VC would be operating the MG, then why the spare VC never give warning. Normally the driver have better relationship with the spare VC because it the spare VC that help the driver with maintainence while the PC eat snake.
but i agreed with papsmearer, the B vehicle driver was not used to operating with armour vehicles. never be directly behind an A vehicle, always to the side. first time know there a 30m distance but 18m shd give the chinaman enough time to react, especially the BX reverse gear give out a continuous beeps once engaged until gear change to drive. so he either drive to the side or engage reverse himself too.
armour vocation no more dangerous than other vocations, respect the vehicles, think properly before action, follow SOPs and TSRs and have constant situation awareness, 20-24mth should be a breeze.
normally the best CVC helmets are for driver and VC. how many ppl were in the BX when the accident happen? if infantry still on board, then the sect comd and MG gunner shd be standing up, then the more no reason for accident to happen. Since it was PC vehicle, then the spare VC would be operating the MG, then why the spare VC never give warning. Normally the driver have better relationship with the spare VC because it the spare VC that help the driver with maintainence while the PC eat snake.
but i agreed with papsmearer, the B vehicle driver was not used to operating with armour vehicles. never be directly behind an A vehicle, always to the side. first time know there a 30m distance but 18m shd give the chinaman enough time to react, especially the BX reverse gear give out a continuous beeps once engaged until gear change to drive. so he either drive to the side or engage reverse himself too.
armour vocation no more dangerous than other vocations, respect the vehicles, think properly before action, follow SOPs and TSRs and have constant situation awareness, 20-24mth should be a breeze.
Hi, I never said I expect zero risk although expecting zero casualty is a fair expectation and CPL Liu death due to conducting officer negligence falls far BELOW this expectation.
Even in war, safety where possible is still paramount because it affects troop morale,
which is itself necessary for strategic, planned and calculated troop actions. Seeing ones commander behavior in a reckless, desperate or beserk manner doesn't engender confidence by any measure.
Even the airline industry will admit that any one death by negligence is one too many.
The commander caused, by inducing enemy gunfire, the 24ton bionix armoured track vehicle to execute a immediate and dangerous extraction procedure involved reverse gear retreat at fast speed (>9kph) under simulated war conditions (a military exercise).
The conducting officer owes a duty of care to ensure that the activity area is cordoned off to other person's or vehicles other than the Bionix being tested since the Bionix armored vehicle will easily crush any soft body vehicle in it's way.
The conducting officer is aware that the Bionix driver will reverse at fast if not full speed without direct vision in his direction of travel and that any vehicle or person to his rear would be gravely endangered.
The conducting officer is responsible for ensuring that the exercise area is clear of other vehicles before inducing the Bionix to reverse at fast speed.
The conducting officer neglected his duty to ensure that nobody was in the path of the bionix before he gave his fatal order.
The negligence of the conducting officer is the primary cause for the death of CPL Liu who should have been removed before the Bionix drill commenced or the drill should never have been ordered given the dangerously unsuitable position of the respective vehicles to begin with in the first place.
CPL Liu death was wholely if not fully avoidable and should not have happened to begin with.
(PS: others have experienced faulty headsets or just human error in military training due to sleep deprivation, thus the need for the regular conducting officer to be on lookout for safety lapses and to avoid giving maneuver execution orders when safety cannot be ensured or is significantly compromised).
Poor safety awareness and lack of common Sense amongst SAF regular officers is the primary cause of this fatal mishap. Other causes include driver fatigue, periodic communication equipment failures, Rover reverse gear defect causing problems with engagement etc.
Last edited:
Nobody was to blame. That's why it's called an "accident".
Are you serious? Given a choice, most male sinkees will NOT go to NS. There is no joy in doing it. Doing the bare minimum is the way to survive NS. But I don't think people will throw caution to the wind. The system, devised by some CMA soldiers, killed that soldier. Don't blame the deceased, go after the people who allowed that incident to happen.
Of course nobody wants to do NS but that does not mean it is not a vital part of Singapore's existence. The medicine may be bitter but it most certainly works.
There is no ground guide for Bionix reversing in the field. The defence minister Bargain hen is shit useless, he cannot tell the difference between a rear guide and a ground guide. I believe bargain hen meant to say rear guide, who is the rear gunner with the 7.62mm GPMG. During the reverse, he guides the commander and driver over the intercom. In actual fact, when I was in armour, there was no safety distance behind an amour vehicle. B drivers would keep even further distance then 30m especially if they are from armour formation too. They know not to mess with a M113 or AMX-13. This is simply the result of a cost cutting exercise where they centralized all the SAR MT lines into Transport hubs. Armour vocation is the most dangerous. I think there has been more deaths and serious injuries in armour then in even Commandoes. Even a simple thing like rotating a turret can kill a driver if his hatch is open. And feet have been crushed by simply putting them in the wrong place when elevating the main gun.
According to SAF doctrines, Mindef can do no wrong! It's always the commanders and soldiers' fault despite being so thoroughly trained.
MINDEF can do plenty of wrong it's just that in this case they are not to be blamed because the fault lies with the soldiers.
Whoever is to blame, FTs don't give a damn!
Similar threads
