Dr Tan Cheng Bock may turn out to be the winner

[3_M]

Unless tcb can get at least 40% of the pro establishment votes, I think no chance tcb can win especially when non-establishment voters are so divided. How divided are the PAP supporters? PAP supporters I know are voting for TT. Maybe the number are just too small to see the trend, but I guess they are not as divided as oppositions supporters and that good news for TT.

 

[jujim]

The irony I see in this "3-corners" fight is that the anti-PAP core is so strongly focused in their fight against PAP that they rather have TT win than to have a hand in ensuring the "lesser evil" TCB win.

Oh well, Aug 27 will be interesting. The days after Aug 27 will be even more interesting to see "many" people trying to pin the blame on "some" for certain results.

 

[PhuaTeKor]

Leaving the decision up to the PEC is as good as saying I want the money. Tony Tan said the same thing.

Populist measure ? No different from vote buying ? OIC, so TCB is against vote buying. So when he was MP with PAP, did he agree with the party's tactics of giving out share dividends before GE and offering SERS to precincts that voted for PAP ?

So it's vote buying for Presidential candidate to accept lower salary, but not vote buying when giving out share dividends ?

TCB, as usual, will talk and talk, but will not resign from the party he disagrees. He surely knows which side of his bread is buttered.

Aiyo, TCB has buttered his bread on both sides now lah. Just don't know how he will hold on to the bread on 27 Aug.

 

[bullfrog]

It may be that TJS realised that he would lose (becos pple are still afraid of confrontational President) so try to steer it such that TCB gets his voteshare. The other 2 are clearly no no's.

That is why I suggested that TJS is playing bad cop and TCB playing good cop and screwing TT. I smell a rat. TJS whacks TT while TCB collecting points. Could be criminal conspiracy.

 

[bullfrog]

Yr logic doesnt sound right to me. care to elaborate how you build up this argument?

The irony I see in this "3-corners" fight is that the anti-PAP core is so strongly focused in their fight against PAP that they rather have TT win than to have a hand in ensuring the "lesser evil" TCB win.

 

[CannonFairy]

I remember you had a discussion on TJS & TCB having secret talks. Do you think the secret talks lead up to the good cop bad cop situation we are looking at?

That is why I suggested that TJS is playing bad cop and TCB playing good cop and screwing TT. I smell a rat. TJS whacks TT while TCB collecting points. Could be criminal conspiracy.

 

[jujim]

Yr logic doesnt sound right to me. care to elaborate how you build up this argument?

It is assumed that the core vote of TT is very strong. They would not change their voting decision even if the sky falls on them. How big is this group is unknown but the consensus seems to be in the 30's and above. As much as I like TJS to win just so to spike "the old man", I find it hard to think he will win in such situation.

Of the three, TCB has a slightly higher chance to win against TT in a mutli corners fight. WE can disagree on this point. But the fact is moderate/swinger/undecided/daft/watever who do not like "confrontation politics" are more likely to vote for TCB than TJS. Hence the chance of TCB winning is higher than TJS.

But "staying united" strongly behind TJS dilutes the votes for TCB, thereby increasing (let's agree to disagree here) the chance of TT winning. Thus my statement that rather than "voting with tears" for TCB, they rather let TT wins via their actions.

I have my say. Let's agree to disagree.

 

[sleaguepunter]

i always believe the voters layout as as follow"

hardcore pap : 35%

hardcore APs : 25%

middle ground : 40%

so whoever can gain the middle ground voters will win the eRection.

If TCB can gain the middle ground plus whatever support from the pap old timers, then it hard for him not to win.

my mum who voted for LTK and YSL ever since we stayed at HG will vote for TCB. When i ask why, she said she remember what TCB had done for singporeans in the past despite no knowing him personally. Her kakis at the temple which she go every weekend also like TCB. Many of these older chinese folks had heard of TCB contributions over the years and have no knowledge of TJS and TKL and because TT was ex govt, so he deem to close to pap.

we can harp forever in internet who can win but it this silent majority who will be the king makers.

a side note here, this PE will also be confusing to the illiterate old folks. My MIL who voted for pap all her life have no idea who to vote for. She only recognise the major political party logos ie, the lightning and hammer etc... So TT's "mutt kia" will imcomprehensive to her and his picture is no help as she dont even know how he look like. haha....

 

[Glaringly]

Of the 60.1% PAP votes, the split between TT and TCB will be very close. So, no chance for TT.

TCB will win this PE by a mile....

 

[JohnnyQuid]

Wow..everybody giving 2 cents worth and some1 predicting results..personally I don give a shit who wins..if u ask me this President Erections issue is a PAP sideshow, am sure PAP want to distract our attention now..Am sorry but lets take a step back and ask ourselves does the EP have any power at all aside from being a custodian of our reserves..look back and ask why was EP created in first place by MIW?? Whoever comes in as EP ain't gonna make any difference...

 

[annexa]

CALON PRESIDEN DALAM KENANGAN: Semasa krisis ekonomi lewat 1990an, ramai Melayu dan India bingit kerana sukar cari kerja. Ada yang marah kerana berasa diskriminasi.Mereka masih ditanya kefasihan bahasa Mandarin. Isu ini diketengahkan oleh Dr Tan Cheng Bock dalam salah satu ucapannya di Parlimen. Beliau mendesak para majikan memberi layanan samarata kepada semua.

Masa itu saya duduk sebelah Dr Tan di Parlimen. Saya beritahu dia, hebat anda boleh bercakap dengan tegas isu ini. Jika MP Melayu bersuara sekeras anda, mereka boleh dipandang agak extremis. Tapi anda orang China, tidak ada orang boleh pandang anda kekauman. Anda multiracialist.

Kita harus membina perpaduan secara begini. Jika orang Melayu susah, China dan India tolong. Jika ada India memerlukan, Melayu dan China menghulur tangan. Jika orang China kesakitan, India dan Melayu harus mengubatkan. Kita harus 'borderless' dalam semua hal, termasuk dalam SAF, self-help group etc. Dah tiba masa kita kaburi perbezaan dan kukuhkan persamaan.

Kisah kenangan dengan Dr Tan itu menyebabkan saya berpendapat, jika kita mahu seorang Presiden yang berani memperjuangkan perpaduan nasional, Dr Tan Cheng Bock memang sudah terbukti keberanian dan kesungguhan. Dia sanggup meredas hutan untuk membuka jalan kepada semua bangsa.

Dalam pertandingan jawatan Presiden, saya sokong kuat pendirian Dr Tan Cheng Bock mahu memperjuang dan memperkukuh amalan berbilang-kaum (multiracialism) di Singapura. Semakin semua kaum bersikap adil kepada semua, tak kira bangsa dan agama, semakin aman dan makmurlah bumi bertuah kita ini.

- Mr Maidin Packer

 

[annexa]

Can someone help to translate this I found on FB? And is this thing real?

CALON PRESIDEN DALAM KENANGAN: Semasa krisis ekonomi lewat 1990an, ramai Melayu dan India bingit kerana sukar cari kerja. Ada yang marah kerana berasa diskriminasi.Mereka masih ditanya kefasihan bahasa Mandarin. Isu ini diketengahkan oleh Dr Tan Cheng Bock dalam salah satu ucapannya di Parlimen. Beliau mendesak para majikan memberi layanan samarata kepada semua.

Masa itu saya duduk sebelah Dr Tan di Parlimen. Saya beritahu dia, hebat anda boleh bercakap dengan tegas isu ini. Jika MP Melayu bersuara sekeras anda, mereka boleh dipandang agak extremis. Tapi anda orang China, tidak ada orang boleh pandang anda kekauman. Anda multiracialist.

Kita harus membina perpaduan secara begini. Jika orang Melayu susah, China dan India tolong. Jika ada India memerlukan, Melayu dan China menghulur tangan. Jika orang China kesakitan, India dan Melayu harus mengubatkan. Kita harus 'borderless' dalam semua hal, termasuk dalam SAF, self-help group etc. Dah tiba masa kita kaburi perbezaan dan kukuhkan persamaan.

Kisah kenangan dengan Dr Tan itu menyebabkan saya berpendapat, jika kita mahu seorang Presiden yang berani memperjuangkan perpaduan nasional, Dr Tan Cheng Bock memang sudah terbukti keberanian dan kesungguhan. Dia sanggup meredas hutan untuk membuka jalan kepada semua bangsa.

Dalam pertandingan jawatan Presiden, saya sokong kuat pendirian Dr Tan Cheng Bock mahu memperjuang dan memperkukuh amalan berbilang-kaum (multiracialism) di Singapura. Semakin semua kaum bersikap adil kepada semua, tak kira bangsa dan agama, semakin aman dan makmurlah bumi bertuah kita ini.

- Mr Maidin Packer

 

[Windsor]

"Semasa krisis ekonomi lewat 1990an, ramai Melayu dan India bingit kerana sukar cari kerja. Ada yang marah kerana berasa diskriminasi.Mereka masih ditanya kefasihan bahasa Mandarin. Isu ini diketengahkan oleh Dr Tan Cheng Bock dalam salah satu ucapannya di Parlimen. Beliau mendesak para majikan memberi layanan samarata kepada semua."

During the economic crisis in the 1990's, many Indians and Malays were eager to find jobs. They were not happy that there were job discrimination as most require Mandarin speaking employees. This issue was brought into Parliament by Dr. Tan Cheng Bock who urged all employers to give equal treatment to all employees.

He went on in the same vein saying Singaporeans should build on this sense of unity and each race should help each other. Indians help Malays, Malays help Chinese etc. In short, we are a multiracial society and all are equal and treat other races as no different from our own. We should not be segregated but have no distinction, such as being accepted into the SAF or in self-help groups. In unity there is strength.

Briefly, he went on to say he support TCB as his next president etc., etc, as he truly represent all races and will bring peace and prosperity to our nation.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Hi,

its my belief that TCB will split the PAP vote for TT. Those who are pro PAP but dont like TT will vote TCB. TCB has alot of grassroots support. Furthermore TT has show himself to be nothing but LKY Part 2, with his 'You have to back up with what you say' crap and of course, the former detainees will back TJS on this. I feel TCB is one of the 'Older Guard' the sort of PAP candidates that people in the past used to vote for. Not this current lot of sorry excuses like TPL etc.

TJS will definitely get the Opposition vote. that is he might get the 40% which will help. The problem is TKL might split the Oppo vote. but in a 4 cornered fight 40% might be enough. But so far, TKL has been trailing behind the other 3. Hope TKL does not jeoprodise the opposition vote.

and with regards to the confrontation stance. Its my personal belief that there should be such a stance. All this crap about talk quietly with the cabinet etc is all rubbish. Let me ask, is the current PAP cabinet respected by the people? Look at LHL, he is a do nothing PM whose promises are worth nothing. I still dont understand what the significance of his so called apology is, when he has done nothing to back up on the 'apology'.

So its pointless to talk quietly etc, Singaporeans want change for the better and wants things done, I will not vote for a talk quietly candidate, I want a candidate to hold the Government to account. Just my 2 cents

 

[elephanto]

This is by far one of the more interesting thread.My view ( all are entitled to their own, as someone has said, we can all agree to disagre ) :- EP is a farce, resulting from LKY's righteous but immature indignation that Singaporeans can vote against PAP in spite of his nation-building works (economic mostly, but he forget people are entitled to be busy song)From 1984 to going thru motions justifying 2nd key, rogue Govt, what not logic, finally incorporated into Constitution.So, for me, EP should be scrapped & reverted to the dignified Presidency we once had- All the legalistic mambo jumbo about stiff roles of the EP, even Michiavellian Old Man forget, you can have all your constitutional specifics, once you let the whole populace elect, Seow leow, whoever is elected has moral authority on his side.Even if for whatever reason if TT wins, and all of us are disappointed, the fact that there is a political campaign, the Pandora box cracked ajar at the recent GE, will be irrevocably thrown wide open.- I believe the nincompoop PEC arde as spineless as they come, must be under orders to let all 4 qualify then :A. PAP Govt can be spared the Nathan precedent: unelected EP because none can even qualify.B. Arising from the swing in 2011 GE, Old Man & son have no feel for the 21st century electorate where those post 65 voters have cast aside heir fears of ballot numbers at the rear. C. They want to test how establishment machinery (from clan, chambers of commerce, trade unions, PA, grassroots blah blah) can overcome the anti-PAP ground and by how much....Results after 27th PE election will be highly educational to all Singaporeans : pappies, rabid PAP-haters and everything in betweenThis live market result will then allow LHL to seriously prepare for the next GE & how far to take George Yeo's reform-within message to. note even as old man's blue eye boy George Yeo has always been co-opted into CEC, he is weak in terms of raw support from LKY-controlled cadres- I don't think TJS is totally confident of winning PE, but who cares! If he has a slim chance of qualifying, die die must try. Win, pick up gulan like hokkien says, if lose, visibility for next GE. No lose scenario.if PAP can send their preferred 'independent' candidate, so can one come from Opposition camp. Resign only mah, can Jin back one next time ....- In spite of all the spit & fire comments from all passionate forummers here, do not forget, only 1 GRC fell.Other than PAP's unsporting gerrymandering (quite fair to say GE2011 is least unfair compared to the past, in part Opp smarter now & new electorate won"t stand for 'repent' nonsense anymore), that 60 odd percent who still voted for PAP may not be PAP lovers but generally fair-minded folks who recognize credit where credit is due but no less happy with high-handed uncaring souless " hard truths " paternalistic-authoritarian brand of governance that LKY will swear by to his death.- this last point points to ex-PAP & even current PAP MPs even members. excluded are the porlumpar glassloot

 

[elephanto]

Sorry, haven't finish, press wrongly....- point is within PAP supporters, members, current and ex-MPs, many simply are patriotic citizens trying to do something within the system instead of tearing down and crying revolution.They recognize it is a tough place to be - but see even this Malay MP dare to openly declare support for TCB, Tan Cheng Bok, in spite of party whip, personal summon to be ticked off by Old Man, always spoke his mind during his MP days.... I am amused when absolutist sentiments are made - come on, even TJS served no less than Woody once... So?important thing is anyone of competence, invariably in society come to be associated in various degrees with the Establishment and at the centre of this Estab is the fucking PAP Govt.Finally to sum up:Limpei will vote for Tan Cheng Bok - a man after my own heart.He is as authentic as they come, political correctness be damned, he even stupidly but radically suggest Govt and president don't share same grounds ! LOL ! Stupid but so forthright! Not good in Malay or mandarin, screw it - just speak English & Hokkien. Be himself ! Swee ah, ah BokTo relate one's record, what's the big deal? Boasting ? Sure, as long as got genuine things to boast about, he was the voice of conscience in a dominant PAP parliament in his time. Against NCMP even if Woody, his RI buddy and fellow scout championed it, wanted to confront LKY for GCT 's sake in 1988 Rally, when LKY called GCT 'kayew' in public and suggest absurdly his own DPM should see a psychologist. Bok was incensed !Anyway, fuck lah, I can go on and on and it is still only my say.TKL supporters, TJS supporters all can list their preferences and their basis as richly as well.... So 27th, make history again, Singaporeans.... Boleh ? Sure can one...And let all of us experience the glee and orgasm of another Aljunied upset scale of underdog victory - only this time, the mandate is islanwide including those poor souls in Tg Pagar who cannot vote at last GESigning off.....

 

[elephanto]

Wahlau !Next time won't key in fro iPad.Cheeby, all formatting gone, hard to scroll, edit also impossible ! Paiseh paiseh .....

 

[Varuna]

This is by far one of the more interesting thread.My view ( all are entitled to their own, as someone has said, we can all agree to disagre ) :- EP is a farce, resulting from LKY's righteous but immature indignation that Singaporeans can vote against PAP in spite of his nation-building works (economic mostly, but he forget people are entitled to be busy song)..............

Brudder, Hard to read leh.... If paragraph a bit will be better. Machiam like MG firing 1000 rounds non-stop......

 

[CannonFairy]

I have to take my hats off Tan Kin Lian. He tries to swing more opposition votes & undecided voters to himself and by doing so, declares himself the most political-independent candidate.

Maybe he tries to get his deposit back.

http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20110822-295587.html

"I think Tan Jee Say's emotional baggage is quite recent as a member of a political party, in fact it's possibly still burning in him," Mr Tan Kin Lian refuted his rival's remark in a press conference on Friday.
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Mr Tan Jee Say had said during his Presidential Broadcast that his three opponents had "emotional baggage" because of their past ties with the ruling People's Action Party.

He felt that these ties would hamper their independence, and that they would not be able to think differently from the ruling party in order to provide checks and balances in their role as President.

At Hub Synergy Point on Friday, the former NTUC income chief emphasised that his involvement with the PAP was in grassroots activities from 1976 to 1985.

He was uninvolved with party politics and had never contested in a General election.

He gave his take on his competitors: "We have got four candidates, one of them is closely connected with the govt. He was a minister for 20 years. If the voters want someone who is very much a part of the government, then this person is the most suitable.

"There is another candidate who is at the other extreme end - a member of the Opposition Party who stood in the recent elections. If the voters want the president to be quarrelling with the government most of the time, this would be the candidate.

"One of them is a very good doctor, but does not have good financial experience.

"I'm not part of the PAP government, I'm not associated with the opposition and I do have adequate financial knowledge."

 

[annexa]

TJS in the same report say OTC is a role model but past ties with party is emotional baggage. very contradicting. OTC is also PAP member and cabinet last time.

Tan Jee Say: Ong Teng Cheong is a role model

Mr Tan Jee Say had said during his Presidential Broadcast that his three opponents had "emotional baggage" because of their past ties with the ruling People's Action Party.