Destructive Technologies 3 - USA's strength and supremacy

[GoFlyKiteNow]

The Bloom Box - Energy Server

New Fuel Cell technology that delivers. When in mass production,
it can be a potential and powerful game changer in the
energy industry. Even landfill gas can be used as its input.

The Bloom Box: a power plant for the home.

Start up company has powerful backers, including CEO Google,
eBay, Wall-mart, Fed Ex, UPS, Adobe whose premises are fully
or partially powered by the Bloom Box energy servers.

Attracts over 400 million dollars pvt funding. Directors/backers
include Sec of State Collin Powell, Gov Arnold Schwarzenegger.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/22/the-bloom-box-a-power-plant-for-the-home-video/

Those two blocks can power the average high-consumption American home -- one block can power the average European home. At least that's the claim being made by K.R. Sridhar, founder of Bloom Energy, on 60 Minutes.

The original technology comes from an oxygen generator meant for a scrapped NASA Mars program that's been converted, with the help of an estimated $400 million in private funding, into a fuel cell.

Bloom's design feeds oxygen into one side of a cell while fuel (natural gas, bio gas from landfill waste, solar, etc) is supplied to the other side to provide the chemical reaction required for power.

The cells themselves are inexpensive ceramic disks painted with a secret green "ink" on one side and a black "ink" on the other. The disks are separated by a cheap metal alloy, instead of more precious metals like platinum, and stacked into a cube of varying capabilities -- a stack of 64 can power a small business like Starbucks.

Now get this, skeptics: there are already several corporate customers using refrigerator-sized Bloom Boxes. The corporate-sized cells cost $700,000 to $800,000 and are installed at 20 customers you've already heard of including Google, eBay FedEx and Wal-mart.

Google was first to this green energy party, using its Bloom Boxes to power a data center for the last 18 months. Ebay has installed its boxes on the front lawn of its San Jose location. It estimates to receive almost 15% of its energy needs from Bloom, saving about $100,000 since installing its five boxes 9 months ago -- an estimate we assume doesn't factor in the millions Ebay paid for the boxes themselves.

Bloom makes about one box a day at the moment and believes that within 5 to 10 years it can drive down the cost to about $3,000 to make it suitable for home use. Sounds awfully aggressive to us.

Related Videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RehT-Do9bs&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbjkGdI68l0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FV96eLggmD8&feature=related

Sridhar earned a bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering from the National Institute of Technology, India in 1982. He moved to the United States in the 1980s and got a M.S. in nuclear engineering and a PhD in mechanical engineering from the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign.

Sridhar was the director of the Space Technologies Laboratory at the University of Arizona, which was asked by NASA to come up with ways to make life sustainable on Mars. The team then made a device to use solar power and Mars water to power a reactor cell that made oxygen to breathe and hydrogen to power vehicles. When NASA canceled the project, Sridhar started working on reversing the process, using oxygen and hydrogen to create power.

 

[Zombie]

please use a better thread heading next time...
destructive technology? I thought US is printing money again..

 

[longbow]

That article is from Feb and after that big launch all has gone quiet.

Hopefully it works but I am always wary of new companies, talking about revolutionary "disruptive" technology, lots of PR.

Remember that air powered engine designed by a French guy? Whatever happened to that? Came in with a big bang but after a year no news.

I give a little more weight to existing companies with a strong product line making such claims - lets say GE. With a strong product line they have a reputation to maintain and would be more realisitc with projections.

SV is full of companies, making fantastic claims, get the IPO money, the founders enjoy a good life and then everything fizzles out.

Remember the Transmeta chip with its ultra secretive launch - all fizzled out.

Hopefully this works out for the company and the technology makes a difference to the env

 

[Watchman]

The Bloom Box - Energy Server

Singapore homes can have it like 10 years ago .
Just to regulate the phrasing of current .
From stabilizing the step down of AC fluxes .
gains of cosine +/-
if you got more motor based electrical appliances

 

[Zombie]

the facts are:
first.. this was invented in the 1930s... nothing really new
second.. it was Swiss scientists who invented it... US NASA tried to improve it later
third... it was abandoned by NASA.. why? maybe not worthy

 

[Glaringly]

the facts are:
first.. this was invented in the 1930s... nothing really new
second.. it was Swiss scientists who invented it... US NASA tried to improve it later
third... it was abandoned by NASA.. why? maybe not worthy

Fourth, if you add Indian bullshit, it will be a different story altogether.

 

[Devil Within]

Fourth, if you add Indian bullshit, it will be a different story altogether.

Yes, we all know how well they like to boast but cannot deliver.

 

[KennyMGM]

Singapore homes can have it like 10 years ago .
Just to regulate the phrasing of current .
From stabilizing the step down of AC fluxes .
gains of cosine +/-
if you got more motor based electrical appliances

This device is a Fuel cell. - ( Energy server.)
I think you read it as energy saver ?

 

[Dreamer1]

USD 400 millions is not that great.

Billionaire Warren Buffett also pumped around USD 300 millions into BYD,Shenzhen ,which ran into immediate difficulty!

 

[GoFlyKiteNow]

USD 400 millions is not that great.

Billionaire Warren Buffett also pumped around USD 300 millions into BYD,Shenzhen ,which ran into immediate difficulty!

This is a new technology and people are betting on its potential.
There is no need to pump in money when full scale production has not started and the company is still working out the process to bring the final mass production cost down. In fact the company does not seek more money when prompted to list on the stock exchange.

But here are the facts.
It is a new technology in the sense there are over a dozen enterprises
working on various fuel cell modes across USA and Europe and none have been successful in having their systems fully operational and accepted due to difficult technical limitations inherent for fuel cells. Namely the reformer membrane design, the fuel stock inputs, the high temp operations, use of exotic materials and output efficiency constraints.

Fuel cels are an exciting device for the energy sector, because of its high energy density, eco acceptance and waste / byproduct being normally water. A good fuel cell product that comes into the market can revolutionize the transportation industry, make electricity grids redundant , make mobile power availability in large qty possible on demand and so on.

Fuel cell technology has been known for decades. But it remained a distant enticing dream due to the severe technology challenges to make it work in the context of commercial and industrial applications where power is needed in kilowatts or megawatts, must be portable and the fuel stock input should be cheaply available. It is in that context this device called Bloom Box has attracted so much attention.

It is one thing to make a fuel cell in a lab that churn out a few watts of power. But that is not what industry wants. This is the first one that delivered with competitive costs, and companies like Google, eBay can vouch for its performance.

 

[GoFlyKiteNow]

Adobe Plugs in the Biggest Bloom Box Yet
BY Ariel SchwartzTue Sep 28, 2010

Software giant Adobe just installed 12 100-kilowatt Bloom Energy Servers at its San Jose headquarters, marking Bloom's largest installation yet. The servers' 1.2 megawatts of power will be enough to power one third of Adobe's electricity.

Randall H. Knox III, senior director of Global Workplace Solutions at Adobe, explained: "Installing Bloom Energy fuel cells supports Adobe's efforts to remain at the forefront of utilizing clean technologies." That's true enough--Adobe is using methane from a landfill as a feedstock for the fuel cells, so the company's Bloom Boxes will produce net zero carbon emissions. And unlike solar and wind, the fuel cell boxes aren't reliant on optimum weather conditions.

 

[GoFlyKiteNow]

John Doerr On Bloom Energy Launch: “This Is Like The Google IPO”

Installation in Google.

After eight years of operating in quasi-stealth, Bloom Energy came out with a bang today at an event in Silicon Valley attended by Arnold Schwarzenegger, Colin Powell, Larry Page, John Doerr, and executives from eBay, Walmart, Coca-Cola, and FedEx.

All of the big-name companies, including Google, are beta customers of Bloom’s distributed energy fuel cell technology (which was the subject of a 60 Minutes profile on Sunday and various other stories since then).

 

[Dreamer1]

This is a new technology and people are betting on its potential.
There is no need to pump in money when full scale production has not started and the company is still working out the process to bring the final mass production cost down. In fact the company does not seek more money when prompted to list on the stock exchange.

But here are the facts.
It is a new technology in the sense there are over a dozen enterprises
working on various fuel cell modes across USA and Europe and none have been successful in having their systems fully operational and accepted due to difficult technical limitations inherent for fuel cells. Namely the reformer membrane design, the fuel stock inputs, the high temp operations, use of exotic materials and output efficiency constraints.

Fuel cels are an exciting device for the energy sector, because of its high energy density, eco acceptance and waste / byproduct being normally water. A good fuel cell product that comes into the market can revolutionize the transportation industry, make electricity grids redundant , make mobile power availability in large qty possible on demand and so on.

Fuel cell technology has been known for decades. But it remained a distant enticing dream due to the severe technology challenges to make it work in the context of commercial and industrial applications where power is needed in kilowatts or megawatts, must be portable and the fuel stock input should be cheaply available. It is in that context this device called Bloom Box has attracted so much attention.

It is one thing to make a fuel cell in a lab that churn out a few watts of power. But that is not what industry wants. This is the first one that delivered with competitive costs, and companies like Google, eBay can vouch for its performance.

Thanks,OK,I see your point.


it is worth watching.

I am also aleretd to the presence of an Indian face,no discrimination,it is just life long personal experience.I am very mindful about this!

 

[longbow]

BYD is exactly what I mean.

1)That companyis making close to 600K cars in China. It is in the fastest growing car market in the world.

2) It is one of the largest battery producer in the world. Highly likely that the very laptop or cell phone that you are using has a BYD battery

Many of these companies that are based solely on some new secret technology have like Bloom or Transmeta are just a bunch of hot air. Even if the technology works can it be economically viable. Can it withstand daily use. What is the price point?

In the case of BYD, they have good experience in reliability of its batteries. After all cellphones and laptops operated in a wide variety of env. They are dropped, kicked, get water logged etc. One big fear of electric car is an explosion or fire. After all that battery pack is many times that of a cell phone. The lawsuits will kill whatever profits a car mfg has.

Hopefully Bloom works but I remain wary.

I guess Buffet does not want to invest in dreams. With BYD, even if the electric car fails, the company still has fast growing and profitable automotive arm and its dominance in batteries. These are solid bread and butter profit generators.

And in stands a good chance of coming out with a fully electric car with a decent price point and range given its experience

USD 400 millions is not that great.

Billionaire Warren Buffett also pumped around USD 300 millions into BYD,Shenzhen ,which ran into immediate difficulty!

 

[Dreamer1]

BYD is exactly what I mean.

1)That companyis making close to 600K cars in China. It is in the fastest growing car market in the world.

2) It is one of the largest battery producer in the world. Highly likely that the very laptop or cell phone that you are using has a BYD battery

Many of these companies that are based solely on some new secret technology have like Bloom or Transmeta are just a bunch of hot air. Even if the technology works can it be economically viable. Can it withstand daily use. What is the price point?

In the case of BYD, they have good experience in reliability of its batteries. After all cellphones and laptops operated in a wide variety of env. They are dropped, kicked, get water logged etc. One big fear of electric car is an explosion or fire. After all that battery pack is many times that of a cell phone. The lawsuits will kill whatever profits a car mfg has.

Hopefully Bloom works but I remain wary.

I guess Buffet does not want to invest in dreams. With BYD, even if the electric car fails, the company still has fast growing and profitable automotive arm and its dominance in batteries. These are solid bread and butter profit generators.

And in stands a good chance of coming out with a fully electric car with a decent price point and range given its experience

LongBow,

I watched Mr Wang Chuanfu being interviewed by Christina on CNBC.

I have no question about Mr Wang's technical expertise and sincerity,none at all.

But I do have my doubt,the part which is lacking is marketing ,and he admitted so,and that is truly critical to his ambition.

Hope he can be successful!

 

[longbow]

For a rough indication, BYD sells as many cars as Tata Motors (largest car mfg in India).

Agree that Wang is more of an engineer. And marketing skills is non existent. Buffet recognizes this fact. Buffet likes to invest in companies that are leaders in their field (EV in China) and have a strong mgmt.

Today problem with EV is price and range.

If you want 200 mile range you pay $100K for a Tesla. Nissan Leaf is $35K with 120 mile range.

I think if you can have 200 mile range at $25K with a fast charge you have reached the sweet spot. Batteries are a big % of the cost. And if there is a company that can come out with a cheap and reliable battery it is BYD.

In a way Wang is a bit like Soichiro Honda. Honda prides itself not as an automobile producer but an engine producer. Mr. Honda was an engineer himself and the heart of a Honda car/motorcycle was its engine.

The heart of an EV is the battery. In a way Wang is like Honda. Buffet is betting that he will find the solution to the $25K car with 200 mile range.

In fact the growth of wind power and solar panels reflects the need for huge storage batteries. After all the sun sets and the wind stops. Potential can be huge.

I think while marketing is important, the product must perform at the price point and be economically viable.

Perhaps I am conservative but Bloom's secret invention with Gen Colin Power and Arnold as BOD seems a little too much PR in my opinion. But what do I know.

LongBow,

I watched Mr Wang Chuanfu being interviewed by Christina on CNBC.

I have no question about Mr Wang's technical expertise and sincerity,none at all.

But I do have my doubt,the part which is lacking is marketing ,and he admitted so,and that is truly critical to his ambition.

Hope he can be successful!

 

[Dreamer1]

For a rough indication, BYD sells as many cars as Tata Motors (largest car mfg in India).

Agree that Wang is more of an engineer. And marketing skills is non existent. Buffet recognizes this fact. Buffet likes to invest in companies that are leaders in their field (EV in China) and have a strong mgmt.

Today problem with EV is price and range.

If you want 200 mile range you pay $100K for a Tesla. Nissan Leaf is $35K with 120 mile range.

I think if you can have 200 mile range at $25K with a fast charge you have reached the sweet spot. Batteries are a big % of the cost. And if there is a company that can come out with a cheap and reliable battery it is BYD.

In a way Wang is a bit like Soichiro Honda. Honda prides itself not as an automobile producer but an engine producer. Mr. Honda was an engineer himself and the heart of a Honda car/motorcycle was its engine.

The heart of an EV is the battery. In a way Wang is like Honda. Buffet is betting that he will find the solution to the $25K car with 200 mile range.

In fact the growth of wind power and solar panels reflects the need for huge storage batteries. After all the sun sets and the wind stops. Potential can be huge.

I think while marketing is important, the product must perform at the price point and be economically viable.

Perhaps I am conservative but Bloom's secret invention with Gen Colin Power and Arnold as BOD seems a little too much PR in my opinion. But what do I know.

Mr Wang immediately remind me of our own in house Mr Sim of sound card fame.

If Buffet can make Mr Wang to read up the case study of Mr Sim(Creative),at least 1/4 of the battle is won.

I will watch him but for my monry,not yet.

 

[Zombie]

All of the big-name companies, including Google, are beta customers of Bloom’s distributed energy fuel cell technology.

One most important reason is that their government pays quite a substantial portion of the costs to these beta customers. This product has yet to prove its economic viability in the market.

 

[singveld]

i would not trust the ah neh.
if so, then cow urine must be able to cure disease.

 

[longbow]

Mr Wang immediately remind me of our own in house Mr Sim of sound card fame.

If Buffet can make Mr Wang to read up the case study of Mr Sim(Creative),at least 1/4 of the battle is won.

I will watch him but for my monry,not yet.

Big difference is Wang moved into car mfg and at 600K cars a year he has critical mass. IT hardware (Creative) is totally different technology and 2 bad years and you are out.

Italians made the most sexy cars - big consumer appeal. But they are not reliable so they are out in many markets. The Japs had not much marketing appeal but cars were reliable and had good economy same for the Koreans.

I tend to trust Buffet and he has skin and reputation in the game.

Agree we have to watch it play out. I would rather place my $ in BYD vs Bloom.