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Desperate New York Govt tax for (prata?) Bagels

uncleyap

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http://blogs.forbes.com/janetnovack...-than-new-york-bagels/?boxes=Homepagechannels


Wacky Sales Tax Rules Cover More Than New York Bagels

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The Blogosphere has erupted with news (first reported by the Wall Street Journal here) that New York state is insisting on collecting sales tax on bagels sold sliced, even if they don’t’ get a smear of cream cheese.

Only in New York, you say? Fact is, disputes over what’s taxed take-out and what’s untaxed (or lower taxed) grocery supplies aren’t unique to New York. Missouri, for example, ruled in June that a retail drug store’s self-serve frozen meals, but not its self-serve coffee, would qualify for the state’s lower sales tax rate on food. Why? Food served hot doesn’t qualify for the lower rate. The store staff brews the coffee, which customers get for themselves in Styrofoam cups. But it is left to the customer to pop the frozen lasagna out of the freezer case and into the store’s microwave.

Then there’s Minnesota, which in April published a new set of guidelines on what is taxable prepared food, versus tax-exempt “food and food ingredients” in that state. According to the Minnesota Department of Revenue, prepared food includes not only food sold hot or with eating utensils, but also “food where two or more ingredients were mixed or combined by the seller for sale as a single item.” Bakery goods and ready-to-eat meat sold unheated are specifically exempted from the mixing-ingredients-is-taxable rule. But cheese, alas, doesn’t have a similar exemption in the law. So according to the Minnesota revenuers, in-state dairies which sell their cheese directly to consumers are selling taxable prepared food “since making cheese involves a combination of two or more food ingredients.”

Think cheese as prepared food is silly? Try bottled water as a soft drink. Twenty-three sates (not including New York) have signed on to the Streamlined Sales and Use Tax Agreement, which is supposed to simplify sales taxes enough that Congress will authorize states to require internet sellers to collect their sales taxes. (Good luck on that.) The agreement allows states to choose to exempt food from their sales taxes, while not exempting candy, soft drinks, dietary supplements or prepared foods. But to simplify things, the states have to use uniform definitions of those categories.

Washington State’s Department of Revenue recently informed retailers that since it had adopted the streamlined pact, it had new definitions of taxable “soft drinks”. Retailers must now collect sales tax on bottled drinks that have 50% or less of fruit or vegetable juice—including non-sparkling bottled water. “Carbonation is no longer a factor in determining taxability for sales tax purposes, “ the state notice explained.
 
http://www.news10.net/news/watercooler/story.aspx?storyid=93399&catid=335


New York sales tax on bagels 'quirky' any way you slice it
C. Johnson Last updated 18 days ago Posted: 9/1/2010
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NEW YORK - To the great mysteries of the day - the reasons for global warming, the popularity of reality TV - add the taxing of bagels in New York state.

There is a big, round hole where our shared understanding of bagel tax policy should be.

Hardly a schmear of clarity.

As a result, many bagel store owners are left wondering whether they are collecting the right sales taxes and whether the rumors are true that the state will soon send auditors - the Bagel Police - to check.

"One of my customers told me about it this morning," said Frank Salemme, the owner of Nyack Hot Bagels and Deli on Route 59 in Central Nyack. "I know it's taxable if you put butter or cheese on it, or anytime you make a sandwich, but I was unaware that if a person just wanted it sliced, then you'd have to charge tax. If I have to start charging tax, I will."

Sliced? Not sliced? Huh?

Why is there such boiling uncertainty over the taxing of a bread product that's been an integral part of the New York identity for more than a century?

Apparently, a bagel chain upstate got audited during the summer and received an unwelcomed tax bill because of a misunderstanding of Albany's mysterious sales-tax rules. The state is facing some mighty financial duress and is looking for every cent that the tax code allows.

Media reports explained that any bagel that is prepared on-site - even if it is only sliced - is subject to a sales tax. It comes out to about a dime on your average bagel with cream cheese.

Only virgin bagels that are bought whole and removed from the premises for consumption can escape the tax, most reports said.

As a result, people have been dissecting bagel taxes like they do the Yankees' starting pitching.

"For small businesses that depend on every little bit of revenue, the imposition of this sort of tax will be a deterrent and adversely affect store owners," said Doris Hati , as she was buying eight bagels - uncut - from Scarsdale Bagels on Garth Road.

David Presser, who co-owns the popular What a Bagel in White Plains with his brother, Ronald, said he's been fully aware of the need to charge sales tax on prepared bagels for more than 20 years.

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"Anytime you put a knife to it and prepare something, it's taxable," he said. "Customers aren't aware of it, so it's probably good for us if they're made aware of it. We try not to raise prices too much - we cater to the neighborhood and live in the neighborhood - but you can't fool with the sales tax."


Barbara Svihalek, who bought Strathmore Bagels and Deli in Somers in March, said she's been trying to get a handle on the tax requirements since the Great Bagel Controversy broke. She's heard that auditors might be on the way.

"Supposedly, they're going around to bagel shops to see if we're charging," she said.

But Susan Burns, spokeswoman for the state Department of Taxation and Finance, said the Bagel Police are not coming.

"There are no new audits taking place of bagel shops," she said. "Nothing has changed."

In fact, Burns said, the sales-tax rules for bagels have been largely unchanged since the state adopted a sales tax in 1965.

Not that the rules are easy to understand.

"There is a quirky nature about our sales tax," she said. "But there is no new tax here or new interpretation of the state law."

It's not as simple as slice-and-tax.

State tax law says that all food sold to be eaten inside a restaurant is subject to sales tax. And so is any heated food or sandwich, including on bagels, sold for takeout.

The exception: unheated food sold for takeout that is in "substantially the same form as food you can buy in a grocery store or bakery," Burns said.

Could that be a sliced bagel with nothing on it? Yes.

"Slicing a bagel does not automatically trigger the tax," Burns said.

Got that?

Burns said that the state is preparing sales-tax bulletins that will help vendors answers bagel-related and other questions.

Bagel lovers know these are crazy times.

"It's stupid, sure," said Zach Mayer, 23, as he was sitting outside Goldberg's Famous Bagels in New City. "I'm not going to lie to you about that, but it seems like the state is trying to suck taxes out of everywhere right now."

Pamela Coleman, finishing a cinnamon and sugar bagel with butter and jelly at What a Bagel, said that taxes won't keep her from her morning bagel.

"The state is desperate for money," she said. "We have no control over these things."


"Anytime you put a knife to it and prepare something, it's taxable," he said. "Customers aren't aware of it, so it's probably good for us if they're made aware of it. We try not to raise prices too much - we cater to the neighborhood and live in the neighborhood - but you can't fool with the sales tax."


Barbara Svihalek, who bought Strathmore Bagels and Deli in Somers in March, said she's been trying to get a handle on the tax requirements since the Great Bagel Controversy broke. She's heard that auditors might be on the way.

"Supposedly, they're going around to bagel shops to see if we're charging," she said.

But Susan Burns, spokeswoman for the state Department of Taxation and Finance, said the bagel police are not coming.

"There are no new audits taking place of bagel shops," she said. "Nothing has changed."

In fact, Burns said, the sales-tax rules for bagels have been largely unchanged since the state adopted a sales tax in 1965.

Not that the rules are easy to understand.

"There is a quirky nature about our sales tax," she said. "But there is no new tax here or new interpretation of the state law."

It's not as simple as slice-and-tax.

State tax law says that all food sold to be eaten inside a restaurant is subject to sales tax. And so is any heated food or sandwich, including on bagels, sold for takeout.

The exception: unheated food sold for takeout that is in "substantially the same form as food you can buy in a grocery store or bakery," Burns said.

Could that be a sliced bagel with nothing on it? Yes.

"Slicing a bagel does not automatically trigger the tax," Burns said.

Got that?

Burns said that the state is preparing sales-tax bulletins that will help vendors answers bagel-related and other questions.

Bagel lovers know these are crazy times.

"It's stupid, sure," said Zach Mayer, 23, as he was sitting outside Goldberg's Famous Bagels in New City. "I'm not going to lie to you about that, but it seems like the state is trying to suck taxes out of everywhere right now."

Pamela Coleman, finishing a cinnamon and sugar bagel with butter and jelly at What a Bagel, said that taxes won't keep her from her morning bagel.

"The state is desperate for money," she said. "We have no control over these things."

Gary Stern
LoHud.com
 
http://rivertowns.patch.com/articles/breaking-fast-and-breaking-down-the-bagel-tax

Breaking Fast and Breaking Down the Bagel Tax

Traditional fare for the Yom Kippur "Break Fast" meal is bagels with cream cheese--find out which bagel orders are taxable and which are not.
By Lizzie Hedrick | Email the author | September 18, 2010

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Sure, everyone knows Nova Scotia Lox is more expensive than buying plain cream cheese on a bagel, but did you ever think about the price difference between a whole bagel and a bagel sliced in half?

Since the 1960's, the New York state Department of Taxation and Finance has ruled that as soon as a knife touches a bagel in the store, it becomes subject to tax. That means that bagels with cream cheese, bagel sandwiches and even just bagels sliced in half are charged with an additional tax, whereas bagels bought whole should not come with tax.

"What I've always done is include the tax in the overall price of most products," said Alfredo Posada, owner of New York Bagel Authority, in Dobbs Ferry.

But since the state recently said they would heighten their audit and compliance efforts on this seemingly obscure tax, Posada is thinking about reprinting his menu to represent the prices accordingly.

"The state has decided it will be more careful about how the tax is collected, so now I'll have to be able to show just how I generate the amount I pay the state," Posada said.

The price of an individual bagel may look lower on Posada's revamped menu, but he concedes he'll have to be meticulous about whether he and his cashiers hit the "tax" button on the register after ringing-up every order.

Whole muffins are not taxable, nor are drinks and packaged biscotti. "But slices of pound cake are," he said. "That's because I bake the whole cake and then slice it into individual pieces."

Pyong Chong, owner of Hastings Own Bagel, is also careful to comply with the law, but works the tax into customer prices slightly differently.

"For plain bagels or bagels with cream cheese, I don't add on the additional tax on a customer's receipt," he said. "I just factor it into the overall price."

For bagel sandwiches, though, he does tack on he tax. "The individual ingredients that go into the sandwiches are too expensive for us not to add the tax on additionally," he explained.

Although both local bagel-sellers have complied with this odd and until recently under-the-radar tax, Posada is resentful that the state will be scrutinizing small businesses' practices as a means to raise more money for Albany.

"The state is trying to find the last penny it is entitled to," Posada said. "And now rumor has it they'll be sending people to bagel shops to see if they can get more from us."
 
So what at least we can talk about it not like putting gentry for ERP everywhere without any public discussiond
 
So what at least we can talk about it not like putting gentry for ERP everywhere without any public discussiond


You ordered prata? Ok pay GST!

You ordered prata CUT? Ok pay GST plus cut prata tax!

:D
 
So free trade is to govern double taxation ? :)

Govts in the USA are seriously in financial crisis, hundreds of banks are going bust and they don't know where to borrow money from.

:eek:

The situation will only get worse and worse.:(

The people who are already poor can not be milked further. Bush's wars had no profits, Obama had to pick up the shit left behind by Bush.

:p
 
Things are that bad, eh?

I am awaiting for LEEgime to implement Prata Slice Tax here.:D

Sad for USA a wonderful world of freedom and it was my work place and 3rd home.:( Fortunately I did not pick up a Green Card & stayed when I was offered, I either went on long business assignments, or was employed by US firm station in Asia, and then return to HQ few times a year for training or exhibitions (Vegas!) or meetings.

http://uyforum.multiply.com/photos/album/10/New_York#photo=1

MANHA-ME.JPG


This certainly was way before 911 ;) US was so different then, I miss that old time. It is so different today, not just that Manhattan Skyline....
 
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