Sorry bro, it is the hard truth.. You might not be able to get back your cpf. It is not your money. You have been donating to the cpf all the while you are working in sg.
They make it seem like it is your money, but it is not.
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Chitchat CPF Investment Scheme fails for 30 years - "not fit for purpose"
- Thread starter scroobal
- Start date
Sorry bro, it is the hard truth.. You might not be able to get back your cpf. It is not your money. You have been donating to the cpf all the while you are working in sg.
They make it seem like it is your money, but it is not.
Well I got all my CPF money out. So it is real.
I suggest you take your money out while they can still give you money. First come first served.
Nice try.
I am referring to the near future.., not now.
Your govt is trying different ways for people to contribute to the cpf.
One of them is medishield.
I wonder what type of shield they will come up with soon.
I dun have to pay any shield scrap. Medishield life is also not for non Singaporeans.
Seriously get another citizenship renounce singapore citizenship and withdraw all your CPF while you still can.
My govt doesn't have CPF. They have CPP.
Bodycells, who is your govt?
Seriously get another citizenship renounce singapore citizenship and withdraw all your CPF while you still can.
My govt doesn't have CPF. They have CPP.
Bodycells, who is your govt?
Sadly, it is still PAP lah. Pek Chay here.
You can change your govt mah.
Anyway bodycells wrote to me "your govt is " so I get the impression PAP is not bodycells' govt otherwise bodycells would have written "our govt is"
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To destroy cpf would mean the death of PAP and possibly this country.there is no other alternative.sinkies have to remain slaves contributing to cpf as long as they remain in this country.our entire ecosystem revolves around cpf.assuming PAP takes 3.5% of the cpf returns every year,3.5% of 300bil is 10.5b a year.without this crucial source of income,our national budget will run into serious deficits.cpf is like the beating heart of the sea monster,it is the tree of life from which all life springs forth from the bowels of the earth,all sinkies must do their part and sacrifice one third of their bread or manna in order to ensure the continued existence
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Then why are you so concerned about cpf issue? You have the order of your master to interven this cpf discussion.
You like to ask questions but it is up to me to choose to answer any questions from you. U have to understand there is a thing called free will.
PAP lowlife do not understand what is free will.. They even give it up for money. Totally pathetic.
To all sinkies, pls be reminded that cpf is not your money. You are being forced to give it up to them from your salary as this is the policy that your PAP govt has abused it.
Your retirement money is gone if all you have is only your cpf.
They also make use of your cpf to pushed up the price of your public housing called HDB.
There are even sinkies who think that HDB is your private 999 year freehold private housing.. It is a PUBLIC housing.
This is one way your PAP govt use your cpf to screw you even further.
Bodycells aka the fake tonychat has no government,he is lawless,a free agent,he is the only man in the universe with free will.the rest of us are just puppets on a string dancing round and round to a nsync cd.
That is your problem, issue and business, not mine.
To all sinkies, do not trust the cpf. They can change the rules however they want just to keep the cpf money to themselves.
Yes, unless u give up your pink ic and cash out. It only shows the stupidity of yourself in the past for trusting the cpf and PAP.
The smart ones do not contribute to cpf.
There are many ways to get tax relief. I would rather you use 7k to buy insurance. This will get you tax relief too.
Only PAP morons will always tell sinkies to use cpf this and that and make their life revolve around cpf..
Then when election comes, those stupid sinkies will stupidly think cpf = PAP. So they vote PAP due to cpf.. How stupid can sinkies get.
Your cpf will be helping you when another govt comes in rather than the current PAP govt using cpf to screw sinkies.
While I appreciate your sharing of a good personal investment track record, when discussing policy you need to put on a macro hat, think at a strategic level and detach yourself from personal achievements and disappointments. It is also difficult to have clarity if you are mixing multiple issues loosely correlated and then attempting to do policy analysis at the same time. I will try to be brief as you brought up many areas that are not easy to go through easily on a forum.
- On the recommendations benefiting financial industry, I agree it's likely the case. Personally, I am against the CPFIS in the first place for reasons articulated earlier, so this new direction isn't really addressing the heart of the issue for me. But to be fair to the government, we have to bear in mind they are not forcing anyone to invest. Participants are more than welcome to leave their pension savings in the CPF without doing anything. It is in fact the default action if you choose to do nothing.
- It is good that your personal investments have been positive, but like mentioned earlier, this really isn't the consideration when it comes to policy discussions. Also do take note that rough rule of thumb in financial statistical analysis indicates you need 25 +/- years of track record before you can say with 95% confidence interval what you are experiencing is more attributable to skill then luck, 5 years is too short. The US market has been on a prolonged bull run from 2011 to now, you are in fact benefiting from a significant tail wind. S&P 500 + DivReinv has more than doubled and if you have owned individual small caps 3-5x return over the period is quite common as well.
- On experts working for CPF, we must bear in mind the CPF was not set up as a traditional pension fund with an in house fund management arm investing all over the world to generate real returns. There are no professionals working for the CPF doing fund management with a mandate to generate superior returns. For better or worse, the CPF invests all its proceeds in Singapore sovereign securities . This has the effect of lowering credit risks as opposed to broad based investments adopted by some other pension arrangements at the expense of having lower returns comensurating from a very conservative allocation. Whether this is the optimal approach is debatable, but it is inaccurate to characterize that CPF has a throng of investment professionals on the payroll and doing nothing while generating 'lousy' returns.
- On your forex management 'techniques', they are rudimentary but fit for purpose in your case. Like I said, this isn't really the point of discussion. On a professional/academic level, it is incorrect to compare straight forward returns of 2 completely different entities without context and anyone with a basic CFA/CIPM education will agree.
- Bottom line is CPF generates a low return which to date roughly matches the long term inflation rates. They are not fantastic, but neither are they sub-par unless the intention is to generate real returns which is altogether another frame of discussion.
- Just like any nation wide policy, there is bound to be a myriad of different opinions on how best to manage retirement savings on the national level. I wish there were more discussions on the committee and advisory level on the mission and purpose of CPF and its propostion as a tool for retirement. Currently it seems that the government is dictating a mandate that the underlying philosophy will not change and simply ordering a bunch of experts to suggest policy tweaks here and there. On the layman level, there's hardly any serious discussions ongoing except the usual clamoring for "higher returns" and wild conspiracy theories.
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Let us go back to basic, when CPF was set up, it was before PAP becoming a government & stayed on for 51 years. It was started on 1 July 1955.
http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/history/events/c2330166-bd07-4266-a073-11e8d8efa4e8
If you google CPF HIS STORY you will find it in CPF website, with their story..without mentioning the origin of CPF...the purpose was? to provide to the workers a saving when they retire & historically, when workers retire, they are allowed to withdraw all their savings. Who gave a shit what they do with the money or nominate who to inherit it too, maybe their family, relatives, mistresses, concubines or even girlfriends or boyfriends. That was the basic.
Later you could use that savings to buy yourself a home...that is not that bad at all....but things soon escalate from there, with the "assets enhancement" & the "swiss standard of living"....HDB flats became instruments of gambling...(ok lah! investment). Then some made noises that they have so much money in their CPF & the interest offered was so low....& the CPIS & what ever investment scheme was implemented. It was supposedly to be for "Investment"...soon, it became another " assets enhancing thing" & pursuing a ? "standard of Living"...they started gambling on Shares etc.. (ok lah! Investments)....what happened thereafter, we already know that story...don't need to elaborate.
As for the "wild conspiracy theory"...you can't fault people, having a 'fear' of their savings which had been entrusted to other "people" & those people, keep changing the rules & regulations & conditions in which the saver could get hold of the savings. It give rise to suspicions which till this day they could not dispel that they are not trustworthy with the savings...& they are ever changing that "goal posts' & still are changing it....can you say this is a "wild conspiracy theory"
I computer jargon....they should have " K.I.S.S." for the savers...Keep It Simple Stupid....the CPF should have reverted to its basic of:
When the saver retired, the retired sum of money, to be given to them, what they do with it...it is their bloody business.
They could could give options:
1. Withdraw ALL
2. Withdraw SOME, keep a certain amount & withdraw all at 65.
2. Withdraw SOME, the rest, buy an annuity with it or entrust the money to CPF to invest for them or whatever investment suggestions they may suggest, in other words, we trust you (CPF) with all our 'hearts"
If you take options 1,2,3.....they spend all that money, it is their fault & any help from the social services, should be given last & or humanitarian reasons, other than that...they live with it.
In this way...you dispel all the "conspiracy Theories' by K.I.S.S.....but are they that "honest" to go back to the simple days of handling over the savings? it is not right!...then the conspiracy theories is ringing loud & clear..
Your situation is different, you were only allowed to take all your money in CPF out when you renounced your sinkie shitizenship after you moved to Canada. People have to emigrate in order to do what to what you say.
The holy trinity of PAP source of funds is 1) CPF 2) HDB 3) Worker Levies. Each of these contribute multiple billions a year to the govt coffers. The common denominator for all 3 to continue to contribute their billions an increase in population. that is why 10 million people are coming soon. More people means more CPF contributions to steal. More HDB flats to sell. And more levies to collect. sImple as that.
im sorry,since when was people allowed to withdraw everything from cpf when they retire assuming cpf started in 1955,the earliest retiree would be in 1989?thats the most irresponsible notion iv ever heard.why do u think most countries have all these welfare nets and myriad of policies?most people cant be trusted to take care of themselves let alone be given the freedom and responsibility to handle thirty years of wealth in one go.just look at the pioneer generations for christsake,most of them are barely treading water,when left to their own devices,most people have no clue how to plan for the future or see past the next day or next week.and this is not just a problem with the pioneer generation and baby boomer generation,it extends throughout the generations to today's youth,most people have no sense of fiscal management and financial knowledge,they depend on the crudest and most rudimentary vehicles of building wealth,namely their hdb flats and cpf.
cpf should be a pension fund just like every country,no one should be allowed to withdraw anything from it and they should receive a monthly stipend from it upon their retirement age.whoever came up with the stupid notion that cpf is ur money in the first place?it is ur retirement pension fund and ur last line of defense,not some kind of retirement bar mitzvar fund for you to spend all willy nilly.giving people the option to withdraw everything is suicidal,if u study law of probability and statistics and sociology,u can be sure at least 20 percent or 30 percent of the population will misspent the money and it will be gone in a couple of years(lets face it these people have trouble saving any money during their working lives,what makes u think they will spend prudently when they are old?),and they will be begging the government for a handout,can u imagine the burden and cost on society?its like having 20 percent unemployment.and the others will be bitching that these irresponsible maggots are getting a free ride on the rest.
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I'm already an uncle & affected by the new withdrawal age of 65. To the PAP I'm your typical "lesser mortal". I know many others who are in the same boat.
It is pointless discussing about the excuses of why the PAP failed to generate a fair return because we do not know all the details. Maybe some people have been pocketing the profits? In countries like Canada & Malaysia they do have a retirement plan that works & you don't hear people complaining about it. If the PAP is unable to provide a fair return, they should liquidate & return the money.
You seem to be Pro-PAP & making excuses for the PAP. Let me ask you how you would feel when you reach 55 & told that you can't take your savings out?
When were you born, never mind asking about the spermatozoa thing....in 1984 I helped my late Uncle withdrawal all his CPF - ALL, they gave him a OUB cheque, which I went with him to OUB HQ which was at now 1 Raffles Place, my colleague in 1983 & many like him withdrew all their CPF...it was when mee siam mai hum became the PM & that this was gradually phased out & never to be withdrawn at retirement...
Now I ask, when did the spermatozoa fertilise the egg.....never mind if it was in 1 July 1955....
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