Contradiction in Buddhism

[PUNISHER]

1) As I understand it, one of the Four Noble Truths is that desire is the root of all suffering, and that to escape suffering, one must renounce desire. But isn't that a desire, in and of itself?

2) why do buddhist attached to their teaching since attachment is also consider suffering in their teaching

3) Buddhists is against abortion , but if a woman is raped by a man and found out she is pregnant by the rapist , she still have to keep the baby ?

4) Buddha ate and sleep he had a desire to eat and sleep too ..But how can you achieve complete unattachment? Any Buddhist monk who sits down to meditate eventually has to move and get "his " dinner. So he is, much of the time, like the rest of us, attached to doing and getting for his self

5) Buddhists preach suffering and the idea of no self. How can someone suffer if there really is no self, or no soul under their appearance?


6) Twenty years a pilgrim, Footing east and west. Back in Seiken,
I’ve not moved an inch. [Seiken-Chiju, Poem]

7) Who says my poetry is poetry?
My poetry is not poetry.
Provided you understand my poetry as not poetry Only then can we discourse together about poetry. [RyOkan , Poem]

8) Everything is real and is not real, Both real and not real,
Neither real nor not real.
This is Lord Buddha's teaching. [MMK XVIII: 8]6

9) Just understand that birth-and-death is itself nirvana. There is nothing such as birth and death to be avoided. There is nothing such as nirvana to be sought. Only when you realise this are you free from birth and death.
[dogen , shoji]



Paradoxes abound in eastern religions, and unlike in western religions, you are not supposed to attempt to ignore them or lie and say they don't exist, but instead treat these profoundly stupid statements as if they are profoundly wise, and meditate on them, and attempt to create models of the world that contain them. More than for religious reasons, they are there for social engineering reasons, to keep people introverted, contemplative, and docile, while trying to exist in a world full of profoundly stupid paradoxes that you must treat as wisdom.

 

[PUNISHER]

Buddhism is an Eastern religion that has gained many followers in the West especially among movie stars. It is only appropriate that we examine this ancient pagan religion.
Buddhism is supposedly built upon the teachings and example of a Hindu guru who was called the “Buddha,” i.e. Enlightened One. The problem we face is that this guru did not write down any of his teachings. Neither did any of his early disciples. A few manuscripts appear four to five hundred years after his death! But most of the manuscripts do not appear until nearly 1,000 years after his death. This gives plenty of time for legends and myths to arise that falsify the life and teachings of the guru.
This problem is further complicated by the development of two contradictory literary traditions: Pali and Sanskrit. These divergent literary traditions produced hundreds of Buddhist sects that disagree with each other on many major points.

Because the lack of primary source materials for the history of Buddhism, modern scholars seriously doubt the reliability of the traditional legends about the Buddha. As a matter of fact, if he were alive today he would not recognize the religion that bears his name! Since Buddhists themselves disagree on the “facts” of the life and teachings of their guru, there is more than adequate reason to cast doubt on the entire history of the “Buddha.”

There are only a few facts about this Hindu guru that are agreed upon by most scholars. He was born around 563 B.C. in what is now called Nepal. His name is not known for certain. The ones that history preserved are spelled differently. One variation is Siddhartha Gautama. Although this name is doubted by many scholars, we will use it for lack of a better alternative.

It is universally agreed that Siddhartha did not intend to start a new religion. He was born a Hindu. He lived as a Hindu. And he died a Hindu in 483 B.C. The myths and legends that gradually built up around him over the centuries are no safe guide to what he really believed or practiced.
As Buddhism evolved over the centuries, many different authors from varying cultures set forth their own ideas in the name of the Buddha. As a result, Buddhism developed inherent contradictions. When this was realized, Buddhism embraced these contradictions as a badge of honor. Thus the making of self-contradictory statements has become one of the pronounced features of Zen and other esoteric forms of Buddhism.

The many conflicting and fascination legends about his early life, marriage, wanderings and enlightenment are unreliable. Siddhartha was supposedly born into a wealthy family and grew up isolated from the poverty and suffering in the surrounding culture. Some legends exaggerate the wealth of his family and even make them into royalty. But these legends are obvious embellishments and there is no historical evidence to back them up.

He was married and had on infant child by the age of 29. Disobeying his father’s wishes, he went out into the world and for the first time saw the pain and suffering of the unwashed poor and the untouchable. Their suffering made him feel guilty over his life of ease and luxury. As he became psychologically obsessed with guilt, instead of doing something positive to alleviate human suffering, like setting up a hospital or giving food to the hungry, Siddhartha decided to increase human suffering by abandoning his family and taking up the life of a Hindu beggar/monk. By making his family suffer as well as himself, he only added to human suffering. This is one of the great defects of both Hinduism and Buddhism. They increase human suffering with their belief systems.
For six years Siddhartha wandered around the countryside begging and abusing his body in the attempt to purify his soul. But his suffering did not profit anything for anyone including himself. The legends state that he was sitting under a fig tree when it dawned on him that the source of all his suffering was his failure to find a Middle Way between pleasure and pain, wealth and poverty, etc. He had gone from one extreme to another and both experiences had left him dissatisfied with life.
Then a new idea came into his mind. His real problem was that he had DESIRES. When his desires were not met, he became dissatisfied. Thus the way to avoid frustration and the suffering it caused, is to arrive at the place where he had no desires for anything, good or evil. For example, he should have no desire to see his wife or child or to help the poor and needy. Desire qua desire must be eradicated.

Siddhartha was proclaimed a “Buddha,” i.e. and Enlightened One. Did this mean he went back to his family and fulfilled his moral obligation to his wife and child? No, his wife and child remained abandoned. Siddhartha’s so-called “enlightenment” was intensely self-centered and inherently selfish. This is still one of the main problems of Buddhism.

Now that he was a “Buddha,” he should not have any desires to be or do anything. We would therefore expect him to withdraw to a cave and die in isolation. But his desire to preach sermons and make converts was apparently alive and well. He set forth preaching his new message to all who would hear him.

According to the legends, from his enlightened lips came the four Noble Truths, the Eightfold Path, the Ten Perfections, and many other sophisticated teachings. But Siddhartha never really taught any of these things. They were developed many centuries after his death and his name was invoked in order to give them the air of authority.

Siddhartha never taught that he was a god or that he should be worshipped as a god. He did not even claim to be a saint or an avatar. As a Hindu, he believed in millions of finite gods and goddesses. But being finite deities, they were of little consequence and could be ignored except when you needed their assistance. Thus most Buddhists call upon the gods only when they need something.

 

[PUNISHER]

Buddhism, like all religions, is eager to fill whatever vase is it can. It's also a double-bind. The desire to be desire-free, is of course, a desire from which you can never quite be free If I have no desire for anything, I do nothing. If I do nothing long enough, I die. Buddhism promotes ignorance of reality.

 

[PUNISHER]

Another thing that catches my attention not only in this religious thread but in many discussions about Buddhism is that whenever you try to focus on some terms in buddhism it turns out that they mean much more than at first (like with 'suffering' for example). What's interesting is why Buddha used such broad words (in meaning) instead of being precise? Shouldn't be "The guide for better life" as detailed and as clear as possilble ? Isn't it a characteristic for religious texts to be a little unclear to let people twist and turn to suit whatever things they preach ? ), I have strong believe that those, who use words that can describe many things - generally use them to obscure lack of knowledge and errors in logic.

 

[greedy and cunning]

1) As I understand it, one of the Four Noble Truths is that desire is the root of all suffering, and that to escape suffering, one must renounce desire. But isn't that a desire, in and of itself?

2) why do buddhist attached to their teaching since attachment is also consider suffering in their teaching

obviously you neber hear of one saying by the Buddha :
the teachings and methods are a mean to help.
it is like taking a boat to cross a river. once you reach the other shore , you leave the boat behind.
you do not carry the boat around with you.
making use of desire ,attachment is just like using a boat to cross the river.

you should also quote the famous saying by a Zen master , it goes something like this:
before , i see mountain as mountain
during training , i see mountain not as mountain
after attaining wisdom , i see mountain as mountain.

since you don't understand anything about buddhism yet loved to comment
on the subject , you are like a blind man trying to describe how an elephant
would look like by groping it.

better for you to read books on nuclear physic and debate with those scientists.

hope they won't take you as a idiot.

 

[PUNISHER]

obviously you neber hear of one saying by the Buddha :
the teachings and methods are a mean to help.
it is like taking a boat to cross a river. once you reach the other shore , you leave the boat behind.
you do not carry the boat around with you.
making use of desire ,attachment is just like using a boat to cross the river.

you should also quote the famous saying by a Zen master , it goes something like this:
before , i see mountain as mountain
during training , i see mountain not as mountain
after attaining wisdom , i see mountain as mountain.

since you don't understand anything about buddhism yet loved to comment
on the subject , you are like a blind man trying to describe how an elephant
would look like by groping it.

better for you to read books on nuclear physic and debate with those scientists.

hope they won't take you as a idiot.

" obviously you neber hear of one saying by the Buddha :
the teachings and methods are a mean to help.
it is like taking a boat to cross a river. once you reach the other shore , you leave the boat behind.
you do not carry the boat around with you.
making use of desire ,attachment is just like using a boat to cross the river "

And if you wanted to cross another river do you need to bring out the boat again ? Lol !!! In other words you are still attached to the boat idea !! Lol !! Nice try by the way !! Lol !!!

 

[DuYunQi]

This thread shows how little you know, and understand of the human being.. and thus your lack of understanding for Buddhist teachings.

When you are hungry or thirsty, it is not a desire or want.. it is a need.. a need to quench your thirst, and quell your hunger.. or else you will die or thirst, dehydration or starvation.

Desire is not simply put in what you have posted. But of what other things that are non-essential to living out a normal life.

Riches and status is non-esential.. and so classified as desires. Buddhists don't seek to escape suffering, they seek enlightment. And because when one attains enlightment, one would be free from all attachments.

I may not be well versed in Buddhist teachings, but this is the basic ideals of every Buddhist. So your thread is really doing nothing but showing your lack of understanding to all.

Peace to you, my friend. May you find tranquility within the turmoils of you inner self.

Last post here.. not wanting to waste time on this with someone who seemingly wants to stir up inter-religion stuff.

 

[PUNISHER]

This thread shows how little you know, and understand of the human being.. and thus your lack of understanding for Buddhist teachings.

When you are hungry or thirsty, it is not a desire or want.. it is a need.. a need to quench your thirst, and quell your hunger.. or else you will die or thirst, dehydration or starvation.

Desire is not simply put in what you have posted. But of what other things that are non-essential to living out a normal life.

Riches and status is non-esential.. and so classified as desires. Buddhists don't seek to escape suffering, they seek enlightment. And because when one attains enlightment, one would be free from all attachments.

I may not be well versed in Buddhist teachings, but this is the basic ideals of every Buddhist. So your thread is really doing nothing but showing your lack of understanding to all.

Peace to you, my friend. May you find tranquility within the turmoils of you inner self.

Last post here.. not wanting to waste time on this with someone who seemingly wants to stir up inter-religion stuff.

Lol !! can't talk about logic now playing with words ? Lol .

" Riches and status is non-esential.. and so classified as desires. Buddhists don't seek to escape suffering, they seek enlightment. And because when one attains enlightment, one would be free from all attachments."

So what's make you think so called " enlightment " is esential and not desires ? Lol !!! So can I also say to seek riches and status can free you from your wanting to be rich attachment ?

PS : remember this my delusional friend , not everyone have the same needs or desires , maybe your cult is your needs that does not mean its my needs . In other words , the Buddha teaching is not for everyone that's why it's not consider " way of life " . Get that in your head !! Lol

 

[shelltox]

you must endeavor to get rid of the boat(body) because the body and the mind is cause of all our problems.
however, if you are able to enter the body（reincarnation) freely and not attached to the body. you are free.
Your life energy is perpetual , the body is your temporary abode.

 

[Hahahaman]

you must endeavor to get rid of the boat(body) because the body and the mind is cause of all our problems.
however, if you are able to enter the body(reincarnation) freely and not attached to the body. you are free.
Your life energy is perpetual , the body is your temporary abode.

enter the body freely? that means birth? followed by age, sickness and death. is that really what the Buddha taught? or have you been hoodwinked by a particular tradition?