Christmas Presents... What is this practice all about??

[yellowarse]

Then can you explain why Santa Claus, Rudolph the reindeer, Frosty the Snowan, mistletoe, Christmas Tree, and the Twelve Days of Christmas have become so associated with Christmas? What relation to Christianity do these icons of Christmas have?

Ask your wife about the Twelve Days of Christmas as celebrated by the Catholics. Don't lump it together with Santa and Frosty. Let me enlighten you anyway:

Advent: 4th Sunday before Christmas
Twelve Days of Christmas: 25 Dec to 6 Jan
- Christmas Day: 25 December
- Feast of St Stephen: 26 Dec
- Feast of Holy Innocents: 28 Dec
- Feast of Virgin Mary: 1 Jan
- Epiphany: 6 Jan.

Vesak Day doesn't occur at the end of the calendar year where communities party, sing, dance, eat, and be merry. There are no yuletide sentiments in May/June.

Rubbish. Traditional festivities don't happen just at year's end. Most traditional festivities follow either the change of seasons, or, in tropical and sub-tropical lands, with the natural agricultural cycles of sowing and harvesting in conjunction with the moon or solar phases. Chinese New Year begin with the spring planting season in the south, and Diwali after the summer harvest on the night of the new moon to celebrate the return of Lord Rama and his consort Sita from exile.

Whoever said that one can only eat, drink and merry at the end of the year? Duh.[/QUOTE]

 

[Agoraphobic]

Bro, listen to the lyrics of the song, it has nothing to do with Christianity - its all about gifts! Am staying with the title of the thread. Why not lump it with Frosty and Santa? Aren't they a part of Christmas? Or is it because you are unable to explain Santa and Frosty from a Christian perspective? Where Jesus Christ lived and work - why aren't there Christmas Trees there? How did this tree appear and is central to the celebration?

Christmas Day, 25 December (winter solstice) was a pagan festival of the Romans (Saturnalia). In the northern hemisphere, the year end cold winter restricted outdoor activities, and if a stockpile of preserved foods was available, makes sense to celebrate and finish it. Festival take place at anytime of the year, depending on harvests, season changes etc., year end will also include cumulation of the year's wealth/takings (eg. bonuses) And please, I didn't say one can only celebrate during the year's end, it just makes more sense - close the year's business/activities while ushering the new year. In this part of the world, you will notice a more cheery mood from now right up till CNY.

So, you still think Christmas is a Christian festival?

Cheers!

Ask your wife about the Twelve Days of Christmas as celebrated by the Catholics. Don't lump it together with Santa and Frosty. Let me enlighten you anyway:

Advent: 4th Sunday before Christmas
Twelve Days of Christmas: 25 Dec to 6 Jan
- Christmas Day: 25 December
- Feast of St Stephen: 26 Dec
- Feast of Holy Innocents: 28 Dec
- Feast of Virgin Mary: 1 Jan
- Epiphany: 6 Jan.



Rubbish. Traditional festivities don't happen just at year's end. Most traditional festivities follow either the change of seasons, or, in tropical and sub-tropical lands, with the natural agricultural cycles of sowing and harvesting in conjunction with the moon or solar phases. Chinese New Year begin with the spring planting season in the south, and Diwali after the summer harvest on the night of the new moon to celebrate the return of Lord Rama and his consort Sita from exile.

Whoever said that one can only eat, drink and merry at the end of the year? Duh.

[/QUOTE]

 

[yellowarse]

Bro, listen to the lyrics of the song, it has nothing to do with Christianity - its all about gifts! Am staying with the title of the thread. Why not lump it with Frosty and Santa? Aren't they a part of Christmas? Or is it because you are unable to explain Santa and Frosty from a Christian perspective? Where Jesus Christ lived and work - why aren't there Christmas Trees there? How did this tree appear and is central to the celebration?

When did I refer to the song? You mean you define a religious observance by a song? I was referring to the traditional Twelve Days of Christmas as celebrated by the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

And where did I say that Rudolph, Frosty and Christmas trees have anything to do with Christmas? Don't put words in my mouth. I said in an earlier post that Christmas has been 'bastardized and morphed by commercialization into a secular event", didn't I?

That's precisely my point: Christians celebrate Christmas as the day of Jesus' birth, which has nothing to do with Santa. Of course the actual date chosen, 25 December, has pagan roots, but the meaning behind the festival is the sacred worship of their saviour's birth, not Christmas trees and Santa and Rudolf.

So why are non-Christians like yourself bent on appropriating a sacred festival and redefining it in a secular manner and associating it with all the commercial nonsense? You call that respect?

 

[Agoraphobic]

Okay, okay, fine. I do not wish to confuse the debate. Am not against Christians nor the association of the birth of Jesus with Christmas. The main point I was getting across is that Christmas is a festival observed by many people who are not Christians, and many of the practices and icons associated with Christmas do not have Christian origins. The song, The Twelve Days of Christmas we hear over the radio, in malls and all those are more associated with commercial concerns than religion.

Bro, don't get me wrong, I am not trying to redefine Christmas into a secular activity, just that my observation of Christmas, as a celebration by society shows that it is not connected to the religion Christianity. And the practices by society in celebrating Christmas are not derived from events in the story of Jesus Christ.

Cheers!

When did I refer to the song? You mean you define a religious observance by a song? I was referring to the traditional Twelve Days of Christmas as celebrated by the Catholic and Orthodox churches.

And where did I say that Rudolph, Frosty and Christmas trees have anything to do with Christmas? Don't put words in my mouth. I said in an earlier post that Christmas has been 'bastardized and morphed by commercialization into a secular event", didn't I?

That's precisely my point: Christians celebrate Christmas as the day of Jesus' birth, which has nothing to do with Santa. Of course the actual date chosen, 25 December, has pagan roots, but the meaning behind the festival is the sacred worship of their saviour's birth, not Christmas trees and Santa and Rudolf.

So why are non-Christians like yourself bent on appropriating a sacred festival and redefining it in a secular manner and associating it with all the commercial nonsense? You call that respect?

 

[yellowarse]

The main point I was getting across is that Christmas is a festival observed by many people who are not Christians, and many of the practices and icons associated with Christmas do not have Christian origins.

That's a fair enough statement. The 'Christmas' that you see non-Christians celebrate is a commercialized, secularized version of the religious rite. This unfortunate morphing of a religious festival is largely due to market forces. True Christians celebrate the Nativity and sing hyms, not 'Santa Claus is Coming to Town' and 'Rudolph the Red-Nosed Reindeer'.

Back to the thread title, the question is: Do you as a non-Christian have to partake of this grotesque spectacle where a historic occurrence of great joy (for Christians) is now manipulated into a cynical festival for businesses to make money out of non-Christian suckers?

 

[Agoraphobic]

I suppose this is a personal choice. As an individual, I am unable to influence the greater, or rather, bigger, forces around. We live in a commercial world, where spending is encouraged. Come Christmas time, no one wants to be called a Scrooge. Many businesses see this time of the year to make up, or fatten up. I think it will be easier to draw a line between the religious and secular traits of the festival and treat them separatel. After all, Jesus was born in a manger, has humble beginnings, and his story has nothing to do with the pomp and ostentatious nature of present-day Christmas, the celebration that bears his name.

Will I take part? Yes, I am just a part of the community, within reason. I will purchase present(s) for those dear to me. I will also eat and drink, within reason as well.

Cheers!

.............
Back to the thread title, the question is: Do you as a non-Christian have to partake of this grotesque spectacle where a historic occurrence of great joy (for Christians) is now manipulated into a cynical festival for businesses to make money out of non-Christian suckers?

 

[krafty]

[video=youtube_share;aShUFAG_WgM]https://youtu.be/aShUFAG_WgM[/video]

 

[Agoraphobic]

Actually, I have no choice, on Christmas Eve, every year on Christmas Eve, my company has a Christmas lunch, and we have a gift-exchange party, a lotto lottery game as well, its been ongoing an has become part of the company culture. I'd say about half of the staff are Taoists. And a few Muslims. They happily celebrate Christmas too.

Cheers!

...................................
Back to the thread title, the question is: Do you as a non-Christian have to partake of this grotesque spectacle where a historic occurrence of great joy (for Christians) is now manipulated into a cynical festival for businesses to make money out of non-Christian suckers?