Christian on CHC: Dear Parents, please be concerned...

[makapaaa]

Posted in News | 9 Comments »
[h=2]A Christian expresses concerns about City Harvest Church[/h]Posted by temasektimes on July 4, 2012

Dear Parents, please be concerned.

I do not have anything against CHC, but being a Christian myself and having read much about this, has made me very concerned about the teachings of CHC which honestly seem somewhat unusual and foreign to what I know of the Christian faith.

In fact, if anyone has been following this City Harvest saga, then you may know that a person, Phil Pringle, is closely related to City Harvest. According to CHC’s own website: “He sits on the Advisory Committee of City Harvest Church, Singapore, as the advisory pastor.”, and is also undergoing a process to obtain a permit to preach at CHC. He has made many many speeches in front of the audience (including the recent ones this weekend), and CHC’s official comment worries me:

“The CHC Advisory Committee, comprising Dr Phil Pringle, founder and Senior Minister of Christian City Church in Sydney and Dr A R Bernard, founder and CEO of Christian Cultural Centre in New York, will continue to provide spiritual leadership. Both pastors were appointed advisory senior pastors over CHC.”

So why should you be concerned?

Apparently, Rev. Dr. Phil Pringle is the founder and senior minister of Christian City Church, Oxford Falls, but his infamy is far greater. In fact, it seems that the church he had founded, “Christian City Church” or C3, is equally problematic so much so that the people have even created a watch group! Their webpage is here:

http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/about/

A quick search of Phil Pringle (which somehow seems to trigger a lot of stories about him associated with False Prophecy), returns a video which suggests that many people are also wary of his motives, and his speeches bear a very striking resemblance to someone.. :

http://unsettledchristianity.com/2011/11/the-prophet-phil-pringle/

The C3 church watch has hopped on the matter quickly, even though this has happened in Singapore and not in their country. If they are concerned, we might need to also:

http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/tag/kong-hee/

Best Wishes.
JASSEL
*The above was first posted as a comment on The Temasek Times.


Posted in Letters | 22 Comments »

 

[Narong Wongwan]

This is the kind of trash your government lets in.
This is the government you fucking 60.1% voted for!

 

[palden]

Birds of the same feathers flocked together. Hahaha.

Posted in News | 9 Comments »
[h=2]A Christian expresses concerns about City Harvest Church[/h]Posted by temasektimes on July 4, 2012

Dear Parents, please be concerned.

I do not have anything against CHC, but being a Christian myself and having read much about this, has made me very concerned about the teachings of CHC which honestly seem somewhat unusual and foreign to what I know of the Christian faith.

In fact, if anyone has been following this City Harvest saga, then you may know that a person, Phil Pringle, is closely related to City Harvest. According to CHC’s own website: “He sits on the Advisory Committee of City Harvest Church, Singapore, as the advisory pastor.”, and is also undergoing a process to obtain a permit to preach at CHC. He has made many many speeches in front of the audience (including the recent ones this weekend), and CHC’s official comment worries me:

“The CHC Advisory Committee, comprising Dr Phil Pringle, founder and Senior Minister of Christian City Church in Sydney and Dr A R Bernard, founder and CEO of Christian Cultural Centre in New York, will continue to provide spiritual leadership. Both pastors were appointed advisory senior pastors over CHC.”

So why should you be concerned?

Apparently, Rev. Dr. Phil Pringle is the founder and senior minister of Christian City Church, Oxford Falls, but his infamy is far greater. In fact, it seems that the church he had founded, “Christian City Church” or C3, is equally problematic so much so that the people have even created a watch group! Their webpage is here:

http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/about/

A quick search of Phil Pringle (which somehow seems to trigger a lot of stories about him associated with False Prophecy), returns a video which suggests that many people are also wary of his motives, and his speeches bear a very striking resemblance to someone.. :

http://unsettledchristianity.com/2011/11/the-prophet-phil-pringle/

The C3 church watch has hopped on the matter quickly, even though this has happened in Singapore and not in their country. If they are concerned, we might need to also:

http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/tag/kong-hee/

Best Wishes.
JASSEL
*The above was first posted as a comment on The Temasek Times.


Posted in Letters | 22 Comments »

 

[RWSSLOTS]

soon there will be a mass suicide

 

[no_faith]

ang mo really like to come asia to cheat gullible people.

 

[cheowyonglee]

Posted in News | 9 Comments »
[h=2]A Christian expresses concerns about City Harvest Church[/h]Posted by temasektimes on July 4, 2012

Dear Parents, please be concerned.

I do not have anything against CHC, but being a Christian myself and having read much about this, has made me very concerned about the teachings of CHC which honestly seem somewhat unusual and foreign to what I know of the Christian faith.

In fact, if anyone has been following this City Harvest saga, then you may know that a person, Phil Pringle, is closely related to City Harvest. According to CHC’s own website: “He sits on the Advisory Committee of City Harvest Church, Singapore, as the advisory pastor.”, and is also undergoing a process to obtain a permit to preach at CHC. He has made many many speeches in front of the audience (including the recent ones this weekend), and CHC’s official comment worries me:

“The CHC Advisory Committee, comprising Dr Phil Pringle, founder and Senior Minister of Christian City Church in Sydney and Dr A R Bernard, founder and CEO of Christian Cultural Centre in New York, will continue to provide spiritual leadership. Both pastors were appointed advisory senior pastors over CHC.”

So why should you be concerned?

Apparently, Rev. Dr. Phil Pringle is the founder and senior minister of Christian City Church, Oxford Falls, but his infamy is far greater. In fact, it seems that the church he had founded, “Christian City Church” or C3, is equally problematic so much so that the people have even created a watch group! Their webpage is here:

http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/about/

A quick search of Phil Pringle (which somehow seems to trigger a lot of stories about him associated with False Prophecy), returns a video which suggests that many people are also wary of his motives, and his speeches bear a very striking resemblance to someone.. :

http://unsettledchristianity.com/2011/11/the-prophet-phil-pringle/

The C3 church watch has hopped on the matter quickly, even though this has happened in Singapore and not in their country. If they are concerned, we might need to also:

http://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/tag/kong-hee/

Best Wishes.
JASSEL
*The above was first posted as a comment on The Temasek Times.


Posted in Letters | 22 Comments »

this is the real good humble Christian.Crush the fake, cheating act to be Christian.

 

[fishbuff]

ang moh snake oil seller..aka.. nigerian scammer.

 

[shawna]

maybe i should join the CHC to preach also. good money to earn from CHC especially from those naive ignorant followers... i luv it when these naive followers actually sold their homes to fund the ah kong's and ah sun's lifestyles...

 

[cheowyonglee]

ang mo really like to come asia to cheat gullible people.

Not really so.... some ang mo Buddhist are quite wise actually!

 

[Kinana]

I went thru the C3church watch site, I found nothing scandalous or substantial about Pringle on that site. Its a cry wolf site.

I have one thing against Pringle though. why didn't he advice Kong Hee to repent? Why is he still associating with a man who is obviously dishonest?

How much is he paid to do all this?

 

[makapaaa]

[h=2]FCBC Pastor Khong’s rallying call is misguided[/h]

July 4th, 2012 |

Author: Contributions

Pastor Lawrence Khong of FCBC

It is inappropriate for Pastor Khong to remind all pastors of the “innocent until proven guilty” presumption. By reiterating it ad nauseum, Pastor Khong seems to be giving the impression that we should disregard the shocking evidence that the mainstream media have published. Would the Singapore government willy-nilly start criminal proceedings against Kong Hee and gang if they did not have sufficient incriminating evidence?
It is also inappropriate for Pastor Khong to call all pastors to unite behind Kong Hee. Why should they do so? Many of them do not agree with Kong Hee’s cult style of Christianity, his lavish lifestyle or even his radical and costly evangelism methods. Many of them also have grave doubts about Kong Hee’s integrity and transparency in this case. The Singapore government is prosecuting Kong Hee for his wrongdoings – NOT persecuting the Christian churches for their activities. Pastor Khong’s rallying call is misguided, unwarranted and sounds seditious.
I agree that we should pray for Kong Hee – but we should only pray that he will quickly confess his wrongdoings to the CHC members, repentantly ask them for forgiveness, and humbly ask for their prayers as he willingly suffers the appropriate spiritual and secular punishments for his wrongdoings when he is found guilty of the criminal charges.
Pastor Khong, you can tell your FCBC members what to do. But please don’t try to tell the rest of the Pastors and Christians to do so too. Keep to your turf.
.
Anointed, meh?
* Comment first appeared on: Head Pastor urges fellow pastors to pray for Kong Hee and praise CHC

 

[RWSSLOTS]

crooks...making monies out of stupid sinkies

 

[makapaaa]

[h=2]Ex-CHC members reveal pressure to donate ‘as much as we can’[/h]

July 3rd, 2012 |

Author: Editorial

Despite the backlash, many City Harvest Church members continue to show unwavering support for their pastor Kong Hee.


City Harvest Church (CHC) was started by Kong Hee and wife, Sun Ho, more than 20 years ago in 1989. It grew rapidly turning itself into a Mega church. At its peak in 2009,CHC had 33,000 followers.

Many of them would rock the halls of the Singapore Expo where services were held, repeating the shouts of “Hallelujah!” by Kong, a proponent of the charismatic movement in Singapore.

Last Wed (27 Jun), Kong and four other senior members of CHC were charged in Court over the alleged misuse of millions of dollars of church funds to finance the music career of Kong’s wife, Sun Ho.

About half of the congregation are reported to be below 25 years of age.

A member said, “He (Kong) is like our spiritual father. And as our senior pastor, he really practises what he preaches, and acted like a role model to all of us.”

The ‘Prosperity Gospel’ and CHC

CHC practises the controversial doctrine of “Prosperity Gospel” in its church.

Prosperity theology or prosperity gospel is a Christian religious doctrine which claims the Bible teaches that financial blessing is the will of God for Christians. The doctrine teaches that faith, positive speech, and donations to Christian ministries will always increase one’s material wealth. The doctrine emphasizes the importance of personal empowerment, proposing that it is God’s will for his people to be happy.

Churches in which the prosperity gospel is taught are often non-denominational and usually directed by a sole pastor or leader, although some have developed multi-church networks that bear similarities to denominations. Such churches typically set aside extended time to teach about giving and request donations from the congregation, encouraging positive speech and faith.

Prosperity churches often teach about financial responsibility, though some journalists and academics have criticized their advice in this area as unsound. Prosperity theology has been criticized by leaders in the Pentecostal and Charismatic movements, as well as other Christian denominations. These leaders maintain that it is irresponsible, promotes idolatry, and is theologically unsound. Some critics have proposed that prosperity theology cultivates authoritarian organizations, with the leaders controlling the lives of the adherents [Link] [Link].

According to a Yahoo’s report, CHC’s funds grew with the rise in membership. Net assets in 2009 amounted to an estimated $103 million.

Members who listened to Kong, 47, would open their pockets wide to contribute to the church. In a video of one of his sermons uploaded onto YouTube, Kong stressed that one’s faith proclamation “must be backed up by our giving” and, if not, was essentially empty:

“What we give every week is the measure of the value that you place on your Lord and your saviour Jesus Christ,” he said. “We can lift up our hands to worship god, but if the tithes are still in our pockets, then due tribute has not been given. Then our praises are empty. Our words are empty. There is no value to back it up.”

Some members, however, have questioned the “Prosperity Gospel” of CHC and left the church later.

Terence Lee, who joined CHC when he was in his teens, was with the church for seven years until 2010. He said, “I joined the church initially because he (Kong) preached very well and knows how to create a program that appealed to youths.”
Citing “a lack of transparency” in the running of the church as his reason for leaving, Lee shared that he no longer agreed with the doctrine. In fact, he now feels it is based on a “shaky Bible interpretation concocted by self-styled Bible gurus”.

Another member, a former cell group leader who declined to be named, also let on that “there was definitely pressure to donate”, especially among younger church members. “Those who consistently gave more would be applauded; those who didn’t give so much would be ’strongly encouraged’ every week to ‘give as much as you can’,” he told Yahoo!. “We were always told that God would make rich those who donated more.”

Marketing executive Mary Lim, felt the pressure too. The 29-year-old eventually chose to leave Kong’s church three years ago when she became depressed that she couldn’t give enough. “When we signed up, they would give us forms, GIRO forms, encouraging us to donate to CHC via GIRO to make sure our tithes were regular,” she recalled. Her friends who continue to attend CHC still donate via GIRO, she added.
.

 

[Cruxx]

Any psychologists here? Can shed light on why Sinkies are so susceptible to manipulation and brainwashing?

 

[jw5]

Any psychologists here? Can shed light on why Sinkies are so susceptible to manipulation and brainwashing?

None that I'm aware, but Max Chop-Heng is enthusiastic about psycho analysis.

 

[cheowyonglee]

Found this quite interesting to read.... about christianity!by Ang Mo somemore!!!

http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071206034452AAN9qEV

Best Answer - Chosen by Asker

Hi Third P,

When you are dealing with two large religions it is difficult to restrict comparisons between them to philosophical terms. In a sense attempting to compare depth or profundity between two religions ultimately must exceed philosophy - including the philosophy of religion. The ultimate profundity of a religion can only be measured in religious terms.

However, since there are so many levels to religious experience, your question has some real validity. But I still feel that the two religions should be compared on religious terms; what they offer a religous aspirant, pilgrim, seeker, etc.; not what they offer the philosopher.

One approach to your question can be focused on where the path of each religion leads. Does one offer a more profound path, a more profound journey and a more profound outcome? Does Buddhism offer a more profound form of enlightenment than Christianity?

I was raised a Christian and had to learn about Buddhism gradually once I had divorced myself from my up-bringing. I have been extremely disappointed in the way Christianity has been laid out in the Four Gospels. I find the Gnostic Gospels to be more instructive and to offer a more profound approach to understanding the religious path as well as offering clues for personal transformation.

The goal of Buddhism is ultimate and therefore utterly profound. The implications of this outcome - the attainment of enlightenment and the path to get there - are also profound. The way Buddhism treats compassion is also profound. Buddhist logic is profound. It is more integrated, consistent, holistic, and so its discipline is more accessible.

There is a dangerous confusion in Christianity and in the way it presents itself. This is extremely unfortunate because many aspects of Christanity are sound, deep, important, meaningful. However, Christianity lost its roots around 300 A.D. when it started to make arbitrary decisions which became dogma soon thereafter. The purpose of these decisions was to consolidate power. The result was the inner power of Christianity was taken away from the individual. The reality of the religious path which exalts the human spirit and purifies the human mind and soul, was displaced from the individual as a religous means - and projected onto a mythical construction as if it were a patent or brand name.

This action by the church went to extremes with the notion of a bodily resurrection as the apotheosis of Christianity. No one - even the best minds in the world - have been permitted to contest the veracity and even likelihood of a bodily resurrection. This form of Authoritarianism lacks profundity if at least part of the religious way is to impart understanding.

For this reason Christianity has distorted the true significance and potential reality of the principle of resurrection that necessarily follows the equally important and mysterious principle of "crucifixion": the very event which might have been shared by both Buddhism and Christianity and even modern Freemasonry! Moreover, they have reduced the ultimate goal and principle of ancient Egypt to a fairytale - a fairytale that has alienated many people, from philosophers to scientists to normal citizens who cannot help their inborn need to seek the truth of things. Christianity has also driven a wedge of sorts between Christians and Jews that strikes me as more arbitrary than anything else.

Buddhism promises ultimate resurrection, redemption and enlightenment provided one follow a highly disciplined path which is not all suffering. The Tibetans are famous for their exemplary cheerfulness even when on this straight and narrow path.

Christianity could offer the same outcome. All it would have to do is permit critical reform in critical areas. It has to return the principle of "Christ" to the people, the individual, the natural aspirant who we already know from Proverbs are all children of the one, living creator. The reality of Christ is the ultimate reality - a reality it shares with that of Buddha, the Atman of Hinduism, the One Heart of the Hopi People, etc. This reality in the end - when fully realized - is spiritual, All -Embracing, pure, indescribable. The achievement must be gathered up by the individual, within the individual. Only when the individual has put in the ultimate effort does the final moment of enlightenment then look as if it came from God or was sanctioned by God. The relation between divine sanction and personal effort is mysterious and blurry. Both religions try to deal with it as best they can. But to me Buddhism is a little more profound in the way it guides the individual from the outset. Christianity is too confusing because it has taken too much away from the individual thus making the individual feel bad, evil, worthless. When young, it is very difficult to understand why one is being treated as bad or worthless before one feels one has done anything wrong.

It seems to me that Buddhism has greater insight into the problem of sin and evil and teaches how to transform both. Christianity is too harsh, too violent in its approach to the overcoming and transformation of "Lucifer" or the Egyptian "Seth". In this sense I find it much less profound both philosophically and psychologically than Buddhism.

Christianity could become quite profound if it would reform key principles that currently characterize it. But this would mean it would have to share the Christ principle on a more equal basis. It would have to let go the patent. It would have to acknowledge that the true path leads to spiritual resurrection not bodily resurrection. Most of us will still find spiritual resurrection difficult to both believe in and attain, but at least we would not be forced to choose between believing in bodily resurrrection or not believing in it and being condemend if we choose not to believe in it. This is a dubious, intimidating way to force people to believe in the Almighty and his infinite powers. It is not the body that is resurrected. What is resurrected is spirit and Buddhism offers the aspirant the path to achieve that enlightened resurrection or enlightened state of being, of existence.

Buddhism offers countless practices to achieve this end and to break the wheel of Karma. Incidentally in Egypt that is exactly the goal of Horus. Horus was the direct path that broke the whole Osirian cycle of reincarnation. But the function of Horus in the end was similar to the function of the Buddhist "Bodhisatva". Both were not to spend eternity for themselves alone in a state of ecstatic nirvana. The Bodhisatva is to return to earth to help others along the path - with wisdom - not do the work for them. Horus was to preserve justice everywhere forever. Lofty concepts to be sure! But these principles are also as profound as it gets. In these cases the individual must work and labor and in the end cannot lean on anything other than the divine within themselves. It is a profound concept of spiritual self-reliance that most be continuously renewed and strengthened.

Perhaps Christianity came to believe that all these high attainments were impossible for the average man. But what makes Christianity less profound for me is the way it lowers the expectation and aspiration of the average man by placing the final goal of all religion completely out of reach, as if for all time it were the sole prerogative and privilege of God's "Only Begotten Son" - who was taken back up into heaven in body form. This idea is so entrenched in so many people's minds that most have come to assume that the Egyptians also believed in the bodily resurrrection which they most emphatically did not. Again and again we read in the Pyramid Texts that what ascends, what departs the body is the ka, the spirit-state of the individual. It is stated with perfect clarity that the mummified body remains in its tomb, carefully guarded in places like the Valley of the Kings here below.

To become as profound as Buddhism, Christianity needs to reform some aspects of the Four Gospels. It has driven a wedge between its own adherents and countless self-respecting, reverential, but reasonable-minded individuals who would prefer to learn more about the meaning of spiritual resurrection - the mystical reunion of man and the Divine - than to be intimidated into accepting that the Sole Son of God, born of a virgin - which violates our understanding of the mysteries of biological development (not to mention function), was the only one capable of resurrection following a questionable crucifixion that has only served to confuse that principle as well.

This lacks depth. It lacks understanding. It lacks compassion. And it lacks the method for teaching compassion, not that compassion is easy to learn in any religion.

And I repeat, the way the mysterious crucifixion has been handled has only served to drive a painful wedge between Jews and Christians - another unfortunate leftover from two thousand years ago. But in the meanwhile we also learn very little about the archetype, or principle, or meaning, or significance of the crucifixion which must precede the resurrection if the resurrection is to occur at all. Christianity teaches only the dark, evil side of the crucifixion, when in all religious paths it is known that the crucifixion is an inner phase that brings about both rectification and purification that in turn precedes the famed mystical marriage between male and female. Christianity has turned the crucifixion into an act of barbaric betrayal and ignorant cruelty instead of teaching its true function within the true religious path that leads to an exaltation of spirit.

Buddhism teaches a sacred science that allows an individual to be transformed by these principles all the way to enlightenment - which is to say all the way to mystical illumination and integration.

The New Testament is filled with nuggets of gold, seeds of wisdom. But it uses intimidation and harshness where deep wisdom and gentle understanding would go much further to encourage people to seek a better state of being. I believe that Buddhist compassion envelops that religion like a placenta. And for me this imparts a certain profundity that I find has been expelled from Christianity.

This is the best I can do for now with your profound question Third P. Many more pages would be required to equal the profundity of the question.

http://www.forestdhamma.org/about/panya/

 

[ChaoPappyPoodle]

Any psychologists here? Can shed light on why Sinkies are so susceptible to manipulation and brainwashing?

The Prosperity Gospel is widespread in US and Australia. Con artist with much larger church members can be found there. The problem is not to do with Singaporeans. Let's not create issues that do not exist and concentrate on the matter without distraction.

 

[Conqueror]

Giro ?

City Harvest Church (CHC) was started by Kong Hee and wife, Sun Ho, more than 20 years ago in 1989. It grew rapidly turning itself into a Mega church. At its peak in 2009,CHC had 33,000 followers.

Prosperity churches often teach about financial responsibility, though some journalists and academics have criticized their advice in this area as unsound.

Some members, however, have questioned the “Prosperity Gospel” of CHC and left the church later.

In fact, he now feels it is based on a “shaky Bible interpretation concocted by self-styled Bible gurus”.

I have heard of Prosperity Burger welcoming the next Chinese New Year but not this “Prosperity Gospel”. This is the same thing that is happening to my beloved Art Of War from Sun Tzu. How can they make business out of military wisdom ? A friend of mine said that he felt it was possible. I answered him whether a CEO can send ninjas to assassinate his competitor's CEO ? Game over ? Business itself can be a bloody business ?

Another member, a former cell group leader who declined to be named, also let on that “there was definitely pressure to donate”, especially among younger church members. “Those who consistently gave more would be applauded; those who didn’t give so much would be ’strongly encouraged’ every week to ‘give as much as you can’,” he told Yahoo!. “We were always told that God would make rich those who donated more.”

Marketing executive Mary Lim, felt the pressure too. The 29-year-old eventually chose to leave Kong’s church three years ago when she became depressed that she couldn’t give enough. “When we signed up, they would give us forms, GIRO forms, encouraging us to donate to CHC via GIRO to make sure our tithes were regular,” she recalled. Her friends who continue to attend CHC still donate via GIRO, she added.

GIRO huh ? I thought of that before, there's a good reason for this. But, I still feel that such a thing should have been left alone and to be made simple especially involving monies like tithes and offerings.

In my previous church, they always have money problems because men are by nature lazy and 'boh chup'. So, often the pastor there would make an announcement to goad the church to give again. Rent for a proper place to worship can't be cheap especially in Sinkiesland hor. Pastor and elders had to come out with more money from their own pockets to maintain the church.

In ancient Israel time, God mentioned 1/5 or 20% ? So, we actually gave quite little compared to this figure here. :o CHC's 30% is too much !

 

[no_faith]

Re: Giro ?

can i say if 10 gullible persons born, there will be one conman born?

 

[Narong Wongwan]

soon there will be a mass suicide

I am hoping for a massacre....can kill more sheep this way.