Can someone who became another country's Citizen come back to Singapore?

[The_Hypocrite]

Nope..no exception for the desertion laws,,,should be treated as treason and hanged..prefereable in public to warn others not to even think about running away,,or rather run away and dont come back,,,

or ok lah,,i give chance,,,can come back,,,but go and serve for 3 years ns..THAN after that can be treated as normal tourists as he has paid his dues,,

and u are joking,,he has been away for soo long,,will still see people as same tribe?,,,what the fuck will he know about being a Singaporean??" also hor,,,if u let this deserters come back,,they will laugh and say,,hahah I siam NS and got away free,,,I will not allow this to happen,,its bad enough we have to put up with this shit from PRs who siam NS and is wandering around singkieland freely,,have to put up with this shit from Deserters,,,??

Remember Merlvyn tan?? he should have been shot,,,the battle cry is No More Mervyn Tan,,and No more Patrick Tan

If you have lived 20 years in Singapore and left, you probably will not want to be back.
For an person who left as boy, he will be interested to return to his homeland to take a look, to feel how it is like to be with people of the same tribe.

Singapore should seriously reform her conscription laws. Of course, there are many other things holding the country back.

 

[neddy]

Nope..no exception for the desertion laws,,,should be treated as treason and hanged..prefereable in public to warn others not to even think about running away,,or rather run away and dont come back,,,

or ok lah,,i give chance,,,can come back,,,but go and serve for 3 years ns..THAN after that can be treated as normal tourists as he has paid his dues,,

and u are joking,,he has been away for soo long,,will still see people as same tribe?,,,what the fuck will he know about being a Singaporean??" also hor,,,if u let this deserters come back,,they will laugh and say,,hahah I siam NS and got away free,,,I will not allow this to happen,,its bad enough we have to put up with this shit from PRs who siam NS and is wandering around singkieland freely,,have to put up with this shit from Deserters,,,??

Remember Merlvyn tan?? he should have been shot,,,the battle cry is No More Mervyn Tan,,and No more Patrick Tan

I am suggesting compulsory NS to be modified to suit the 21st century world.

As a boy, you are a dependent and has to follow the parents.

The bond breaker has paid $$$, what harm is there to be given a tourist visa to return to visit.

ABC and SBS TV frequently show documentaries of the migrants' home visits.

You zapped me for an invalid reason.
I should zap you back for your pettiness, but I don't give a shit to people who give stupid reasons comparing Singapore-born with PR deserters. You better report to the Goddess of Mercy to ask where you go wrong in your reasoning.

Give me a reason why I should not zap you for making Singaporeans a laughing stock in front of PR invaders, with your stupid comment. You should blame the PAP for their pig-brain policies and their leniency to PR invaders!

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Bro,,u want to zap me cos u disagree with me is fine,,,that is wat the points system is,,but I have served so have many bros here....so there is no excuse for a deserter not to do his time,.,,and I do blame the PAP,,but treason is treason,,and the PAP leadership has to be shot for that,,but that does not mean we have a separate laws to treat deserters differently.

U say pay the bond,,means do their time?? than y dont pap implement those can pay bond,,dont serve NS?? Y those that desert and fine the bond,,can come back??

Also please note that most still serve yearly reservist hor,,,high key and low key and all that shit,,that is why many cant get jobs as they are discriminated. How many situations whereby locals cant get jobs as they have to take time off to go reservist?

its all this shit that adds up,,,so due to this fuck up system, I will have no sympathy to deserters,, and i hate all this left wing liberal bleeding heart bull crap about giving them chance...why dont chances be given to those who have served???? why must the wrong doers be rewarded at the expense of those who did their duty???

Also in most nations military, desertion is a serious offence...

I am suggesting compulsory NS to be modified to suit the 21st century world.

As a boy, you are a dependent and has to follow the parents.

The bond breaker has paid $$$, what harm is there to be given a tourist visa to return to visit.

ABC and SBS TV frequently show documentaries of the migrants' home visits.

You zapped me for an invalid reason.
I should zap you back for your pettiness, but I don't give a shit to people who give stupid reasons comparing Singapore-born with PR deserters. You better report to the Goddess of Mercy to ask where you go wrong in your reasoning.

Give me a reason why I should not zap you for making Singaporeans a laughing stock in front of PR invaders, with your stupid comment. You should blame the PAP for their pig-brain policies and their leniency to PR invaders!

 

[neddy]

Bro,,u want to zap me cos u disagree with me is fine,,,that is wat the points system is,,but I have served so have many bros here....so there is no excuse for a deserter not to do his time,.,,and I do blame the PAP,,but treason is treason,,and the PAP leadership has to be shot for that,,but that does not mean we have a separate laws to treat deserters differently.

U say pay the bond,,means do their time?? than y dont pap implement those can pay bond,,dont serve NS?? Y those that desert and fine the bond,,can come back??

Also please note that most still serve yearly reservist hor,,,high key and low key and all that shit,,that is why many cant get jobs as they are discriminated. How many situations whereby locals cant get jobs as they have to take time off to go reservist?

its all this shit that adds up,,,so due to this fuck up system, I will have no sympathy to deserters,, and i hate all this left wing liberal bleeding heart bull crap about giving them chance...why dont chances be given to those who have served???? why must the wrong doers be rewarded at the expense of those who did their duty???

Also in most nations military, desertion is a serious offence...

Nothing to do with Left Wing or no punishment.

It has to do with the definition of desertion in Singapore context.

If a civilian has not exchange his pink IC for the SAF 11B, that person is still a civilian.

If that civilian boy has left the country as a minor and a dependent of a emigrating family, there is a high possibility that the boy will adapt to his new country and will not return. How come it is not the parents who are punished but the boy.

Moreover, Singapore govt like to make its laws so SECRETIVE that the govt has a big responsibility for the parents confusion.

Why? When govt want to attract foreign investment, the laws are so clear. But once it involve the Singaporeans, its own citizens, the laws so quiet.

Even Drug traffickers know the big red words, DEATH PENALTY for drug trafficking.

If the boy know the consequences of not serving NS, he would have stayed behind and let his parents migrate.

The parents should also know that once the boy enjoy Singapore govt services and migrate, the act of not serving NS has serious consequences that cause the boy to be a CRIMINAL and locked in a PROVOST DETENTION BARRACK (Desertion right? NOT CIVILIAN PRISON)

What a way to treat citizens.

I served NS too. Back in those no mercy days. Have you eaten brown rice from the cookhouse?

 

[The_Hypocrite]

U are made to serve the moment you are born as the gahmen already factored in how many NS slaves one will get from year XXX to year YYY. So there is no such thing as you are a civilian etc. By the enlistment age, u are drafted,,,so what civilian? If u dont enlist when your time comes, u desert. Easy as that.

And you say, the moment one is born as a singkie, one gets the singkie benefits, so must serve. However, the problems lies with the PRs whereby they get the same benefits but when the enlistment date comes, they fuck off and come back getting EP etc. I have worked with such cases before,,and still see such cases around. And these scums laugh at us as we had to serve and they got away scot free.

And we all know, if one dont serve NS the bond gets taken and will get arrested if one returns. Every schoolkid knows that,,and I knew it when I was in school. So the consequences is already known.

It just at that age,,the attitude,,I dont serve, and no need to come back,,Ozzieland, Pommieland, Yankeeland etc serve my needs,,so I need to come for fuck? Than 30 years down the road,,start to feel, oh must come back to see family, I need to look after parents etc etc, I hope to come back but dont get arrested,,,..

u abandoned your family for soo many years and now start to regret?? That is bullshit,,,after 30 years,,u think your cousins etc will remember you? U will have no attachment to singkieland by than. It just excuses, maybe they want to come back, as easier to fly due to being an airline hub, cannot land in spore means alot of limitations to flying, got job etc in spore but cannot take it up,,etc etc

And those that left,,are the rich ones,,how many families can afford to post bond? Most of us finish NS than go overseas to study,,,so even more I will have no sympathy for such deserters.

And you say, what a way to treat citizens, desertion is a crime, and criminals do the time, so u want criminals to be treated better? This is what I call a bleeding heart liberal attitude,,,which has done nothing but drag societies into the gutter,,,

Nothing to do with Left Wing or no punishment.

It has to do with the definition of desertion in Singapore context.

If a civilian has not exchange his pink IC for the SAF 11B, that person is still a civilian.

If that civilian boy has left the country as a minor and a dependent of a emigrating family, there is a high possibility that the boy will adapt to his new country and will not return. How come it is not the parents who are punished but the boy.

Moreover, Singapore govt like to make its laws so SECRETIVE that the govt has a big responsibility for the parents confusion.

Why? When govt want to attract foreign investment, the laws are so clear. But once it involve the Singaporeans, its own citizens, the laws so quiet.

Even Drug traffickers know the big red words, DEATH PENALTY for drug trafficking.

If the boy know the consequences of not serving NS, he would have stayed behind and let his parents migrate.

The parents should also know that once the boy enjoy Singapore govt services and migrate, the act of not serving NS has serious consequences that cause the boy to be a CRIMINAL and locked in a PROVOST DETENTION BARRACK (Desertion right? NOT CIVILIAN PRISON)

What a way to treat citizens.

I served NS too. Back in those no mercy days. Have you eaten brown rice from the cookhouse?

 

[littlefish]

Singapore's NS policies are truly outdated. It may have been relevant decades ago but now it is archaic. Years ago, people were not very mobile and borders were tightly controlled. There is also no other place quite like Singapore. Today, most people have the means to uproot to another country and with the scores of foreigners in Singapore, the Singapore experience is just an amalgamation of many countries' cultures, not just Chinese (Southern), Malay, Indian (Tamil, Muslim) and Eurasian cultures.

In short, instead of a good policy for its defence, it is increasingly becoming a major obstacle to the aspirations of its male citizens. The disadvantages are starting to outweigh the advantages. There will be people who say 2 years and the subsequent reservist period is a small sacrifice but there are many parents who can't get their boys out of the system due to the penalties even when they have decided a life overseas is better for them. In a world where developed countries are recognising multiple citizenships, Singapore's system seems designed to hold male Singaporeans in, like a jilted lover who will not let go. Other than the tiny size, Singapore is not South Korea or Israel, it is not as if the Singapore lifestyle/experience can't be found anywhere else. I don't know what unique benefits Singapore offers that no other countries offer. In fact, most developed countries offer the same, if not more, benefits as Singapore. I know of another place where you are not allowed to come and go as you please, it is called a prison.

 

[neddy]

Singapore's NS policies are truly outdated.

I know of another place where you are not allowed to come and go as you please, it is called a prison.

Conclusion
kongkek is right after all, make daughters not sons. Sons are not yours, they belong to the PAP govt !!!!!!!!!!!

 

[neddy]

And you say, the moment one is born as a singkie, one gets the singkie benefits, so must serve. However, the problems lies with the PRs whereby they get the same benefits but when the enlistment date comes, they fuck off and come back getting EP etc. I have worked with such cases before,,and still see such cases around. And these scums laugh at us as we had to serve and they got away scot free.

You know that tells me, the PAP govt has not thought out its policies properly or review it current policies to make things easier for her original citizens.

If NS is so important to Singapore, why are the solders paid so little. It contradicts with what the PAP govt say about other things. No wonder they are so much unhappiness with the Singapore bred citizens. They are treated like second class!


In OZ they understand this and that is why they no longer and cannot have conscription army while having a multiple citizenship policy. Imagine 2 Aussies, one from Lakemba and another from Menora come together to serve in an army. You will have internal fighting.

The one from Menora may have even serve in an Israeli army.



Lakemba is a muslim suburb in Sydney
Menora is a jewish suburb in Perth

 

[Agoraphobic]

I know someone in a similiar position - 'cept he's a Canuck.

He is unable to enter Singapore without getting into shit, so his firends and relatives who want to meet up have to do so in JB.

Cheers!

I know of a guy who left Singapore just before O levels, became a citizen in Australia and lived there since - but did not register for or complete NS.
Now he is considering visiting Singapore for the 1st time in over 20 years - but is worried about entering the country.

Can he return to Singapore on an Aussie passport without getting into trouble?

 

[applejuice]

If you have lived 20 years in Singapore and left, you probably will not want to be back.
For an person who left as boy, he will be interested to return to his homeland to take a look, to feel how it is like to be with people of the same tribe.

Singapore should seriously reform her conscription laws. Of course, there are many other things holding the country back.

Thank you for your thoughts. Now I understand better.

What are the many other things holding the country back to reform her conscription laws?

 

[neddy]

Thank you for your thoughts. Now I understand better.

What are the many other things holding the country back to reform her conscription laws?

How many bright foreigners settling down permanently in Singapore? Only those scrapping the bottom of the economic pie will want to live in Singapore. Even Malaysians remains as Malaysians and pay higher cost of living as Singapore PRs.


Once a boy is born in Singapore, he will have a desertion dog tag around his neck to stop him migrating.

And our good friend The_Hypocrite here will rather punish Singaporeans because he see too many Singapore PRs run road instead of serving NS.

How come he cannot ask the PAP to refine the NS policy so that there is fairer treatment for those caught innocently (eg Children of parents who are themselves born in Singapore and those fathers served NS and built Singapore) vs those PRs who just want the bites of the the ready-made cake?

He is lucky that I never zap his reputation after he zap mine for allowing desertion. But words into my mouth when he cannot define desertion properly except referring to PAP definition of desertion!

I also like PAP definition of corruption and GRC, etc. as long it can con Singaporeans!

 

[blur sotong]

his parents put up a bond of sgd30k when melvyn was sent to london for studies. he paid an sgd3k fine. bond amount increased much later to sgd75k or 50% of both parents' gross annual income, whichever is higher.

Bro eatshitndie, thanks for the corrections. You are right. It is only $3000 of Melvyn Tan instead of some other people who kana $5000 and now will be more. :o :(

http://news.asiaone.com/News/AsiaOne+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20100722-228252.html

Singapore, July 22, 2010- THE High Court yesterday set aside the jail term given to a National Service (NS) defaulter and fined him $5,000 instead.

Seow Wei Sin was born a Singapore citizen, but in 1963 - when he was just a year old - his parents moved to Terengganu, Malaysia, with him.

He lived in Malaysia and did not set foot here from the late 1970s. The issue of his NS obligation arose in 2008, when, at age 47, he applied for a Singapore passport.

Seow's lawyer, Mr Tan Jee Ming, had argued that, since a High Court decision in 1993, fines have been meted out to NS defaulters; only those with aggravating factors such as repeat offences or past criminal records have been jailed. Controversy arose in 2005 when pianist Melvyn Tan was fined $3,000 for defaulting on NS during his 28 years away.

In 2006, Defence Minister Teo Chee Hean reiterated the tough stand against NS defaulters; the maximum fine was raised to $10,000.

 

[blur sotong]

You don't seem to understand what I'm alluding to.

I'll spell it out in black and white :

1. Melvin Tan's case shows that there is no way that this character in question is going to get away scott free just because he is now an Aussie.

2. Melvin Tan was treated very leniently because of who he is.

3. If this peasant stock guy lands at Changi. He will, in all probability, end up behind bars.

HE SHOULD STAY WELL AWAY FROM SINGAPORE FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE.

Thank you Boss Sam for your time, effort & patience.

Never argue with the Boss. :p

Please Bros, I not PLP him hor... :o :(

 

[blur sotong]

I disagree on the 60%..i believe it 95% of all Singaporean who has served NS agrees that any Singaporean who siam NS deserve to be hanged. I have gone through it so have countless bros here,,,we waste our time too, so y must others be given the opportunity to siam? No chances should be given to any desserter under any circumstances.

If that chap comes back and gets hanged for dessertion, i will shed no tears..i fulfilled my obligations so did everyone else,,so no sympathy

Also wat makes me dulan is those PRs who come here, go to schools etc at tax payers expense,,than f off when called up for ns..than come back on work permits, this should not have happen and they need to be forced to pay the money back + be black listed from getting any work permits...their parents should also be deported n all assets seized by the state

Bro The_Hypocrite, I done my 2.5 years share of NS. If I am not wrong, it is more likely that I did it way before your time since I have withdrawn my Con People Fund. So my NS in a combat vocation should likely be more "shiong" than yours.

Having said that, those chaps who are not interested in being a citizen of Singapore, why waste 2 years trapping that poor soul? In the process, waste alot of money and resources. Might as well give the money to the poor.

Before I proceed, we have to agree that the subject has not been in Singapore for the last 20 years and is coming back just for a visit.

Now he is considering visiting Singapore for the 1st time in over 20 years

Such disinterested people may become a risk to those who serve alongside with him. They are likely to be the greatest sabo king of all time. For all you know, such people may divulge info that will not be to Singapore's advantage.

By having somebody who have little interest in serving and who have made up his mind to go elsewhere, we should be happy that he has made his choice and be magnanimous enough as a group of human called Singaporeans to let him go. Just because YOU served your NS, does not make it any reason why anybody who has the least interest to serve too. Your philosophy of equal misery is really really bad. It reflects the thinking of the 60%.

As educated humans with rational thinking, we should always strive for win-win situation. Aiming for a lose-lose situation will only reflect the type of character we have. Why continue to have in place such old and now irrelevant rules to our modern society where people are free to go and do what they want? Is it not to subject Singaporeans with fear and more fear? Honestly, what is the point of it? :*:

Now to the topic of PR. That I am with you. This is because they choose to come and stay in Singapore. Having the opportunity to "milk the system", they should reciprocate in like manner. Who started to allow so many of these foreigners around? If the 60% didn't vote for them, do you think foreigners can come in such large numbers?

Still I do not agree with your draconian measures such as deportation and seizing of all assets by the state. Sorry, the world is much bigger than the little red dot.

 

[ZorrorroZ]

After 20 years of absent, why still want to come back?

Seems interested in coming back to work here, catch up with family, etc... the usual thing.

 

[Fook Seng]

For someone who left while a child before receiving his enlistment letter, together with his family should just be fined for not properly renouncing his citizenship (if he had already got his IC. The case who left at one year old shouldn't even be considered a Singaporean although he had the right to become one which he did not take up) and all paperwork should be done to remove him from the citizen list. He should be treated like any foreigner. If he applies for a work permit or employment pass, it should be considered on its own merit.

For those who left after receiving enlistment letter, he should be treated as a deserter and be dealt with accordingly. The law has to be very clear on this, otherwise people who have the strings to pull can get away with even murder.

In my opinion, this is a zero sum thing. If somebody gets away with something he has to pay, otherwise somebody has to bear his cost. Even if we are talking about finding a FT to substitute him, it would mean a social cost to the country.

 

[blur sotong]

For someone who left while a child before receiving his enlistment letter, together with his family should just be fined for not properly renouncing his citizen (if he had already got his IC - the case who left at one year old shouldn't even be considered a Singaporean although he had the right to become one which he did not take up) and all paperwork should be done to remove him from the citizen list. He should be treated like any foreigner. If he applies for a work permit or employment pass, it should be considered on its own merit.

For those who left after receiving enlistment letter, he should be treated as a deserter and be dealt with accordingly. The law has to be very clear on this, otherwise people who have the strings to pull can get away with even murder.

In my opinion, this is zero sum thing. If somebody gets away with something he has to pay, somebody has to bear his cost. Even if we are talking about finding a FT to substitute him, it would mean a social cost to the country.

Fook Gor, I agree with you.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

A really good point,,,but hor also abit unfair as the parents would have got subsidised rate at the public hospital,,,but in todays PAP,,I heard the price between public and private hospital not much difference,,so ok lah,,give a little and let the baby go,,but for foreigners,,they get the full price +++ to differentiate between local and Foreigner


But also,,must whack those PRs who have milked the system and dont serve,,should fine them heavily if not, they dont get the EP,,also most of them are bottom of the barrel foreigners,,they dont come in to work,,no lost to SIngapore

For someone who left while a child before receiving his enlistment letter, together with his family should just be fined for not properly renouncing his citizenship (if he had already got his IC. The case who left at one year old shouldn't even be considered a Singaporean although he had the right to become one which he did not take up) and all paperwork should be done to remove him from the citizen list. He should be treated like any foreigner. If he applies for a work permit or employment pass, it should be considered on its own merit.

For those who left after receiving enlistment letter, he should be treated as a deserter and be dealt with accordingly. The law has to be very clear on this, otherwise people who have the strings to pull can get away with even murder.

In my opinion, this is a zero sum thing. If somebody gets away with something he has to pay, otherwise somebody has to bear his cost. Even if we are talking about finding a FT to substitute him, it would mean a social cost to the country.

 

[The_Hypocrite]

Hello Bro Sotong,,ok this is a time I disagree with you as you are creating a 2 class system,,tell me even those who stay or F off,,who want to serve? so those want to leave, no need to serve,,those stay must serve..its bad enough that Sinkies are treated as 3rd class citizens in their own homeland,,now U want to add them into to 4th tier? Than all leave lah and dont serve..what would happen? Laws are applied equally to all,,,they can serve their NS in prison for all I care. if they are a security risk..those that serve made sacrifices,,and all male Sinkies must serve.,..that is it,.

I am all for changing NS..but till its change,,the system remains,,the law gets kept. I want a professional standing army,,with maybe 50K men,,and a short or no conscription,,for civil defense etc,...like mudland,,6 mths only,,,holiday camp...the Enlistment act remains that same,

Bro Neddy and u want to be magnanimous,,I have seen how this sort of shit create distortions in ang mor land,,and SIngapore should adopt a better system. That is what I call Left wing liberal bullshit. So we all made to serve,,those that desert gets treated as deserters and face the full punishment as defined in the law.

And why is there not a campaign to change National Service? the current system benefits the elites as if we have a professional army,,what is going to happen to all those full time NS men? they will be fucked,,and Chartered industries can screw themselves too,,,the whole civil service will be a disaster,,so PAP just continue feeding this NS monster to maintain power,,want to change,,change NS..not make it easier for deserters to siam,,,

Bro The_Hypocrite, I done my 2.5 years share of NS. If I am not wrong, it is more likely that I did it way before your time since I have withdrawn my Con People Fund. So my NS in a combat vocation should likely be more "shiong" than yours.

Having said that, those chaps who are not interested in being a citizen of Singapore, why waste 2 years trapping that poor soul? In the process, waste alot of money and resources. Might as well give the money to the poor.

Before I proceed, we have to agree that the subject has not been in Singapore for the last 20 years and is coming back just for a visit.



Such disinterested people may become a risk to those who serve alongside with him. They are likely to be the greatest sabo king of all time. For all you know, such people may divulge info that will not be to Singapore's advantage.

By having somebody who have little interest in serving and who have made up his mind to go elsewhere, we should be happy that he has made his choice and be magnanimous enough as a group of human called Singaporeans to let him go. Just because YOU served your NS, does not make it any reason why anybody who has the least interest to serve too. Your philosophy of equal misery is really really bad. It reflects the thinking of the 60%.

As educated humans with rational thinking, we should always strive for win-win situation. Aiming for a lose-lose situation will only reflect the type of character we have. Why continue to have in place such old and now irrelevant rules to our modern society where people are free to go and do what they want? Is it not to subject Singaporeans with fear and more fear? Honestly, what is the point of it? :*:

Now to the topic of PR. That I am with you. This is because they choose to come and stay in Singapore. Having the opportunity to "milk the system", they should reciprocate in like manner. Who started to allow so many of these foreigners around? If the 60% didn't vote for them, do you think foreigners can come in such large numbers?

Still I do not agree with your draconian measures such as deportation and seizing of all assets by the state. Sorry, the world is much bigger than the little red dot.

 

[Fook Seng]

A really good point,,,but hor also abit unfair as the parents would have got subsidised rate at the public hospital,,,but in todays PAP,,I heard the price between public and private hospital not much difference,,so ok lah,,give a little and let the baby go,,but for foreigners,,they get the full price +++ to differentiate between local and Foreigner

Only parents who are citizens (presumably the father did his NS if within the age group) should enjoy any subsidised rate at public hospital but I also believe that there is no subsidy for delivery. Subsidies could be applicable only for the after care of the baby and the mother.