Bea Johnson Chao Ang Mo Makes fun of Singlish

[Spock]

Most of mankind has survived the same turmoil that the Chinese have gone through.

Survival instincts aren't unique to the the Chinese and I see no reason why it should be linked in any way to a materialistic outlook towards life.

Your opening statement was that you loved Chinese language and culture. You have now clarified that you like certain aspects of Chinese culture but abhor other aspects. What is it you like about the Chinese way of life apart from the language?

Tell me one race or ethnic group that has survived essentially unchanged for a few thousand years and managed to hold on to the same area of territory as during the height of their civilisation? Note that the British now living in Britain are not the original inhabitants of the region. The only ones I can think of are the Greeks, Romans and maybe the Mongolians but their territories today are a pale shadow of what they held during their golden years.

I do not know if you are familiar with the proverbs "宁为玉碎, 不为瓦全", "识时务者为俊杰", which are all very self-contradictory. In reality, without the materialistic streak of the Chinese, I doubt many would choose living in humiliation over dying for honour. I am not here to judge which choice is more desirable or admired. I am just making the observation that without the very strong pragmatism of the Chinese, they would have been wiped out long ago before they manage to reach such numbers in their population or at least, they would not have managed to keep their territory as it now stands.

To you, food, art, music, cannot be seriously considered as Chinese culture. I disagree with this view. Loving these aspects of life means that you are also embracing the Chinese culture. As for the other undesirable traits, you need to put some thought in first before dismissing them summarily although that doesn't mean that all the bad traits have some good in them.

 

[ivebert]

Tell me one race or ethnic group that has survived essentially unchanged for a few thousand years and managed to hold on to the same area of territory as during the height of their civilisation? Note that the British now living in Britain are not the original inhabitants of the region. The only ones I can think of are the Greeks, Romans and maybe the Mongolians but their territories today are a pale shadow of what they held during their golden years.

To you, food, art, music, cannot be seriously considered as Chinese culture. I disagree with this view. Loving these aspects of life means that you are also embracing the Chinese culture. As for the other undesirable traits, you need to put some thought in first before dismissing them summarily although that doesn't mean that all the bad traits have some good in them.

Survival is nothing if you cannot contribute to the world

Internet, cars, computers, planes and every little thing you are using. They are invented in the West.

1.3 billion surviving idiots are only wasting our natural resources.

 

[ivebert]

I certainly love the Chinese language and culture but I know I would very much prefer to live under the Western form of government than that practised in most Asian societies (superpower or not) where the value of your life is ENTIRELY dependent on your status in society.

Note that when the West invaded China, it was being ruled by the Manchus, a minority ethnic group and not the Han Chinese. So, it is inaccurate to say that China belonged to the Han Chinese then. I am not sure how stable the environment is when the majority ethnic group is ruled by a minority ethnic group but I highly suspect that the ruling minority group will be very obsessed with keeping the population under strict control. In fact, if not for the invasion, the Han Chinese might probably not be motivated enough to overthrow their Manchu overlords.

In conclusion, for a lowly peasant, it is indisputable that the Western form of government is vastly superior although it doesn't mean that life will be easier. Hope this statement is clear enough.

I am sure you never lived in a western country before.

Western government is only effective IF it spurs scientific and technology progress. This will lead to increased $$$$ for their country and the peasants will benefit from well-paid peasant jobs. The other way is to be a superpower like US who has an independent currency.

If you put this system in China, it will never work because for everything China wants to do has to be based on western technology and the money flows back to the West. The Chinese elites are only good at exploiting the peasants and reap all the profits for themselves.

 

[ivebert]

I'm a lot more grateful to the Mesopotamian who invented the wheel. I use plenty of those round things. :p

Never worn silk in my life, prefer coffee to tea and think Solomon had a better brain than those Chinese philosophers who only said things to please their emperors. [another unsavory Chinese trait]

China is probably the worst country in the world in terms of output per person.

Confucius is nonsense in a capitalist world today. If it was that great, American researchers will be all over him.

The way the Chinese researchers study Mao Zedong is a big joke. Go read some of their research papers and see for yourself how they suck the cocks of their leaders.

 

[ivebert]

No contradiction, there are certainly parts of the culture that I love and parts that I abhor. But it wouldn't make sense to just discard everything simply for the parts that you hate. I prefer to think for myself and just use the good parts from any culture.

For example, you say that Chinese habit of loving money above all else is deplorable but if you think a little deeper, you will realise that it is this pragmatism that enabled the Chinese to survive for thousands of years through disasters, invasions, colonisations, etc. There are two sides to every coin and it is best not to be too hasty in dismissing these traits. But I would readily admit that the Western form of government is superior for individuals not considered part of the elite.

The only reason why China survived was that it was too large for WW2 military technology to overcome. They didn't have the satellites, tanks, fast planes and logistic technology we have now. If Japan had these things then, the Chinese civilization is over.

Also Japan did a stupid mistake of attacking Pearl Harbor. If they didn't do it. You may see a North and South China today.

It's not pragmatism that allowed Chinese peasants to survive. It's just Luck.

 

[Dreamer1]

Erm, I think for the few centuries before 1901, the majority Han were being ruled by the minority Manchus. Not sure if this should be considered as a source of pride, whether or not China is at the top of the world.

In the 2007 monograph Contours of the World Economy, 1–2030 AD by the British economist Angus Maddison,Angus Maddison estimated the ranking of various economic entities fr year 0001-year 2030.

It is quite informative.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)

 

[ivebert]

In the 2007 monograph Contours of the World Economy, 1–2030 AD by the British economist Angus Maddison,Angus Maddison estimated the ranking of various economic entities fr year 0001-year 2030.

It is quite informative.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_regions_by_past_GDP_(PPP)

What's the big deal with GDP in ancient economies? They are based on slavery, military conscription and wars.

Use your brains well and stop thinking that those GDP figures say anything about how glorious a country is. It's the quality of output that counts, not quantity.

China had a high GDP because they have wars every few years and if they have peace, they were generating GDP in their private courts by inducting tonnes of prostitutes called concubines and spending lavishly on them. Or just simply, they had more peasant farmers.

 

[Spock]

Survival is nothing if you cannot contribute to the world

Internet, cars, computers, planes and every little thing you are using. They are invented in the West.

1.3 billion surviving idiots are only wasting our natural resources.

I am not judging the cultures and what they contribute to the world. All I am saying is that what you think is worthless may have served its purpose in another way. It is easy to criticise another culture like saying the Chinese are money-minded, the Angmos are barbarians, the Malays are lazy or the Indians are cheats. But have you ever considered that within their cultures, they don't think of themselves as such and every culture has its strengths and weaknesses?

I am only concerned with understanding the different cultures and what I can learn from them. I do not hold the view that one culture is superior to another simply because it invaded the other one and eliminated it. From the tone in this forum and probably most of the world, I can tell that most only view superiority in terms of dominance. All I know is that such thinking is why humans have the tendency to kill each other. Most can't be bothered to make the effort to understand another culture besides their own.

 

[Leongsam]

Tell me one race or ethnic group that has survived essentially unchanged for a few thousand years and managed to hold on to the same area of territory as during the height of their civilisation?

To you, food, art, music, cannot be seriously considered as Chinese culture. I disagree with this view. Loving these aspects of life means that you are also embracing the Chinese culture.

You may view it as stability. Others may view Chinese civilisation as stagnant. There is no doubt that the Chinese have been around for a long time. What surprises me is how little they have achieved considering their seniority and overwhelming numbers. Perhaps the pragmatism you so admire prevents them from blazing new trails.

As for Chinese culture, I never said that food, art, music etc are not part of the package. All I am saying is that culture involves a lot more than what you'll see at cultural festivals and opening ceremonies of fancy events. Culture describes a whole way of life including many aspects which can be pretty unsavory.

 

[Spock]

The only reason why China survived was that it was too large for WW2 military technology to overcome. They didn't have the satellites, tanks, fast planes and logistic technology we have now. If Japan had these things then, the Chinese civilization is over.

Also Japan did a stupid mistake of attacking Pearl Harbor. If they didn't do it. You may see a North and South China today.

It's not pragmatism that allowed Chinese peasants to survive. It's just Luck.

Lol, I suppose you will call it luck as well that the Japanese did not have the weapons of today during WW2? It is probably luck as well that the Japanese did not get wiped out by a Mongolian invasion and the English did not get wiped out by the Spanish Armada and went on to conquer the New World.

 

[i_am_belle]

this 'chao angmo' should just tell himself that the 2 girls are indeed speaking in mandarin/dialect and stop evesdropping ...

what the hell is he doing in s'pore anyway ? when his own country has space, greenery, cheap cars, & generous govt handouts ...

sometimes i think these angmos who're here are actually running away from something in their own country ... the law ? bankruptcy? a bad divorce ? a mad ex-spouse ?

i thot pinoys & indons & ah nehs & cheenas were irritating ... but these ppl have a reason to be here since their own countries' roads are lined with shit & they have no water & electricity ... but angmos ?

our roads are swarming with angmos now, if u've noticed, and im not talking abt tourists ...

 

[Spock]

You may view it as stability. Others may view Chinese civilisation as stagnant. There is no doubt that the Chinese have been around for a long time. What surprises me is how little they have achieved considering their seniority and overwhelming numbers. Perhaps the pragmatism you so admire prevents them from blazing new trails.

As for Chinese culture, I never said that food, art, music etc are not part of the package. All I am saying is that culture involves a lot more than what you'll see at cultural festivals and opening ceremonies of fancy events. Culture describes a whole way of life including many aspects which can be pretty unsavory.

I have never said that I admired the pragmatism. I only made the observation that the pragmatism may have served a useful purpose. I make it a point to understand cultures instead of judging them. This is because it is difficult to hold an unbiased view as an outsider.

By the same token, why can't I say I love Chinese culture because of the food, art, music, language or whatever since these aspects are all part of it? Culture is not static, it is constantly evolving. What you hate today may be gone many years from now. I prefer to see the cup as half-full rather than half-empty. If I live my life thinking I will only love a culture if I love everything about it, I will probably end up hating myself.

 

[i_am_belle]

I have a strange feeling that this article was written by a Sinkie or an angmoh who has been residing here for sometime. He appears to be quite familiar with the local scene like "Speak Good English Movement", what Vivian did at the launch of the campaign etc.

the bloody caucasians (they hate being called 'caucasian' ha ha) ... who have lived here for awhile are usually the ones who find fault with the locals ... tourists, on the other hand, are usually delighted with everything local, singlish & all ...

why ?

probably cannot tahan the stressful lifestyle eg. construction noise, hot weather, long working hours, public transport ... no long winding country roads to drive along, no peace & quiet rural areas to escape to for a weekend break ...

knn, then take it out on the locals ...

 

[hokkienpeng]

Tell me one race or ethnic group that has survived essentially unchanged for a few thousand years and managed to hold on to the same area of territory as during the height of their civilisation? Note that the British now living in Britain are not the original inhabitants of the region. The only ones I can think of are the Greeks, Romans and maybe the Mongolians but their territories today are a pale shadow of what they held during their golden years.

If you know your history, you'd know that the people who live in Greece today are not the descendants of the ancient Greeks and the people who live in Italy today are not the descendants of the ancient Romans.

But you're right about the Han Chinese. They are somewhat like the Borgs in Star Trek and the Han Chinese culture has a virus-like nature. While the Han people may be conquered by other races like the Mongolians or Manchurians, it is always the conquerors that ultimately get assimilated, corrupted, and weakened to a point of extinction. Today the Mongolians and Manchurians are in a really sorry state — a pale shadow of their ancestors during the prime of their empires.

Just because you can gulp down a petri dish with a billion ebola virus doesn't mean that you're stronger than the virus.

Perhaps it's a blessing that Japanese did not manage to conquer China. Otherwise the world might have lost another culture to the Han Chinese virus.

 

[Spock]

Perhaps it's a blessing that Japanese did not manage to conquer China. Otherwise the world might have lost another culture to the Han Chinese virus.

Yes, and what will all the bros here do if they can't get hold of their staple diet of Jap AV movies? Lol.

 

[Papsmearer]

The truth hurts, doesn't it? Funny how the NOUVEAU RICHE Sinkee who has upgraded to a condo (or even, horrors, to a 'landed' property) and now strutting around like some tua kee, but deep down is very ashamed of his working class, ah beng parents and SOCIAL BACKGROUND.

Sama sama. Same with our horse-faced Bea, who is no doubt fooling around with some heartland (sorry, but not the ah bengs) natives and then getting cheated and used by them. Say, how about forwarding this whole thread of our Bea. In Leonie Hill.

Hey, how u know i am in Leonie Hill? Are u a stalker? And I am not noveau riche, ok? My grandfathers were already very wealthy. I don't consider 3 gen to be noveau. And Bea is not horce face. That's mean. Bea, if u are reading this, PM me, I take u out for dinner and drinks, ok?

 

[scroobal]

Culture is not a zero sum game and neither is black or white. Most sensible people approach it in shades. Forummer Spock has probably articulated the positon well. One's Culture as history shows tends to have their place in the sun one time or another and these things hopefully go thru cycles.

A reasonable person would take the best out of the culture or cultures that he is exposed to. The World in general is not aping the best but we tend to follow its practices as it now for the time being the dorminant culture and its langauge and protocol requires some level immersion to move along economically.

And there is always that affinity or love for one's own roots and cultures nuances. It is interesting how revealing and how remarkable one's culture is and and how they have evolved over time if one actually bothers to make an attempt to find out more.

Food despite come comments to the contrary is a fundamental component of one's culture. There are others as well including racial traits that are synonymous with one's culture and readily identifiable by others.

The trick is not to be overly occupied dispelling claims or allegations of aping other cultures. To some its a zero sum game but it will be a minority and lets leave them to it.

 

[jw5]

How wonderful it is to be able to watch an episode of the new Hawaii Five-O and then watch a DVD of Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre; listen to songs by Wu Bai and Chyi Qin and then to songs by Lennon and Elton John.

I seldom if ever think about whether I'm embracing Chinese culture or getting immersed in western culture. Just feel sorry for those who can't or won't enjoy both.

 

[scroobal]

Yes, yes, yes, well said bro.

How wonderful it is to be able to watch an episode of the new Hawaii Five-O and then watch a DVD of Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre; listen to songs by Wu Bai and Chyi Qin and then to songs by Lennon and Elton John.

I seldom if ever think about whether I'm embracing Chinese culture or getting immersed in western culture. Just feel sorry for those who can't or won't enjoy both.

 

[kulgai]

How wonderful it is to be able to watch an episode of the new Hawaii Five-O and then watch a DVD of Heaven Sword and Dragon Sabre; listen to songs by Wu Bai and Chyi Qin and then to songs by Lennon and Elton John.

I seldom if ever think about whether I'm embracing Chinese culture or getting immersed in western culture. Just feel sorry for those who can't or won't enjoy both.

Congrats, you are the enlightened one