Another Lost Sheep from CHC

[makapaaa]

<TABLE class=forumline border=0 cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=3 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD class=row1 vAlign=top width=150 align=left>WallStreetTerrorist



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 67

</TD><TD class=row1 height=28 vAlign=top width="100%"><TABLE border=0 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:05 am Post subject: Entrepreneur Valerie Tan on CHC saga</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap> </TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=2>I had wanted to write a note on Asia Conference after it ended 30 May, wanted so much to share what was learned during the 5 days’ conference. But due to turns of events, I didn’t pen them down.

What happened the day after the conference was all over the papers and requires no further elaboration. Sometimes I can't help but feel that the men on the street know the story better than I do.

After the news broke, friends who knew that I am with City Harvest Church called me & asked about what happened, while others tried proving how right they were about my church and why I should take this time to leave. Even had some friends from the media industry asking about my initial feelings, hoping to hear how shock I was and those who read that I still trust in the integrity of the leadership, criticized how I should have known better than to be associated this way. These are people I call friends!

Would I be ignorant enough not to know the association when seen talking for my church? Or am I that naïve to believe that the world is forgiving? If you believe that I still have some common sense, if not intelligence, you would know I require no convincing.

For those of us Christians, our church is our second family. We do not forsake our family members in times of trials. I am not the authorities neither an investigator, I cannot comment or judge those investigated. The crime is for the court to decide, aren’t they suppose to be innocent until proven guilty? Shouldn’t we have complete trust in our government? I do.

I was asked recently, “Are you only convinced when your leaders are convicted and only then will you wake up?” I laughed and replied, “Wake up from what?” I do not understand the urgency in proving me wrong. What difference does it make? Will I leave if my leaders are convicted? Will you forsake your parents if they too make mistakes? I don’t know about you but I will not. I will stand even closer and let them know that I'm here.

Through this incident, I love my church even more. It is times like these that the family gets closer and the spirit of unity binds us together.

Today they tell me about reports on Pastor Kong’s blog and some authors claiming theirs were copied. So what? We have all missed the point again. The blog is on Daily Devotions, messages about the gospel. In every situation, we always consider 2 things, first, the action and second, the intention. In this case, the action is to blog and the intention is to spread the gospel. Copied or not, why do we care?

And yes, parting words for my well-meaning friends. I can't stop your coffee shop discussion but do stop telling me negative things about CHC because it’s my family you are talking about.

Last edited by WallStreetTerrorist on Sun Jun 13, 2010 12:46 am; edited 2 times in total</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

[Ramseth]

it's beri unChristian to sue your brothers and sisters who wants to spread the same gospel message you are spreading..

methinks God may not be too happy about this..

It's also very unChristian to copy, cut and paste without permission, credit or citation, passing it off as one's original. I don't think that God's happy about that too. Anyway, the plagiarising was committed and admitted. Nobody's suing, just a word of caution to integrity.

 

[scroobal]

Looks like there is hope. First post from Makapaa that has an accurate header and informative post. He is back to his usual self!

 

[Queen Seok Duk]

In every situation, we always consider 2 things, first, the action and second, the intention. In this case, the action is to blog and the intention is to spread the gospel. Copied or not, why do we care? [/B]

Is she a half past six lawyer ? Using criminal law - actus reus and mens rea - as analogy ?

The action is not 'to blog'. Before he could blog, he must first 'copy'. I don't want to use the word 'steal'. So the action is copy, not blog.

 

[commoner]

ya, treat the church as family,,,,,,,,, like that guy who find underaged prostitute, oh, thats your fellow brother/father/or whatever in christ, lets not judge him,,,,, or ted haggert, thats another leader, is that your brother or father or grandfather in christ?

 

[oli9]

I was asked recently, “Are you only convinced when your leaders are convicted and only then will you wake up?” I laughed and replied, “Wake up from what?” I do not understand the urgency in proving me wrong. What difference does it make? Will I leave if my leaders are convicted? Will you forsake your parents if they too make mistakes? I don’t know about you but I will not. I will stand even closer and let them know that I'm here.

Firstly, this blind gentile hasnt woken from his slumber.
Parents is parents. Is pastor Kong Hee his father, spiritual or not?

Kong Hee is clearly a FASLE PROPHET in the making, so when will he wake up to this stark fact? Until Kong hee does a David Koresh?

Its a clear deception that Kong hee uses other people's work to reflect as if his own. Yes, the intention may be noble (to enlarge God's kingdom) but doing it at the expense of somebody's work is wrong.
All this while, all those blinded CHC sheeps thought God has been giving "secret messages" to Kong Hee that he writes on his website. Now we know it isnt true?
KONG HEE, when will u own up? You better get your GOD to perform a miracle & get u unscath. Your wife is a blardy disgrace too.

 

[besotted]

What is Kong Hee's real name?

Rev Ming Yi is Goh Kah Heng. We only found out after he was charged in court and the real name is used

 

[Ramseth]

i agree for other works it's bad to copy....but for anything related to gospel the final copyright owner should be God...

God's copyright has been clearly defined. From Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21. And God's copyright is free. Anyone can freely quote and copy therefrom.

 

[Ramseth]

do you agree that every writings of gospel related works by gentiles came from inspirations from God?

No. I have to read it first to decide for myself. It's well-known commonsense that some charlatans abuses and twists God's Word. I only accept canonically as it is, Genesis 1:1 to Revelation 22:21.

 

[commoner]

call a thief a thief,,,,,,,

plagarised already,,,,, then come our excuses,,,,,,,

think they above law,,,,,,,,,,, siao,,,,,,,,,

may as well rob a bank and buy suntec

 

[Logisex]

Its is ok to cut and paste but you must ask for permission and indicate the source.

This KH thinks he is god so no need to ask permission.

 

[Ramseth]

do you think God will forgive Pastor Kong?

I think that God has nothing to do with Kong Hee. You should ask Satan, but I'd bet he'd say he's got nothing to do with Kong Hee too. Satan only tempts. How you handle temptation is your own business.

 

[halsey02]

do you think God will forgive Pastor Kong?

Yes!...at the very second you cross between here & thereafter, God will be there for you, if one from the heart ask for forgiveness..for God had placed eternity in the hearts of man..

Ecc 3:11 (NASB)
He has made everything appropriate in its time. He has also set eternity in their heart, yet so that man will not find out the work which God has done from the beginning even to the end.

 

[halsey02]

I think that God has nothing to do with Kong Hee. You should ask Satan, but I'd bet he'd say he's got nothing to do with Kong Hee too. Satan only tempts. How you handle temptation is your own business.

satan is a liar of course he will say, he has nothing to do with it!

Job 1:6-7 (NASB)
6Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.

7And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

 

[Subok]

I think that God has nothing to do with Kong Hee. You should ask Satan, but I'd bet he'd say he's got nothing to do with Kong Hee too. Satan only tempts. How you handle temptation is your own business.

actually maybe we give a bit slack to Kong Hee on not crediting where his citations were from. Cause after all these "citations" just as many others were there for the greater betterment of God's kingdom.

HOWEVER

the big HOWEVER here is:-

The "citations" were used for Kong Hee's ECONOMIC benefit as well. This I think is wrong, and NO 2 way about it. Just as the original authors of these citations decided to give Kong Hee some slack then I think we should the same. BUT the sales of these books SHOULD be stopped and previous proceeds all goes into some charity fund and offer these books for FREE with footnote giving where the credit due.

All of us plagiarized in one way or another, does not mean we are not guilty just because we were not exposed. but to gain monetary benefit and self glorification out of others hard-work is a NO NO.

Personally, I would not allege that Kong Hee siphon any Church's funds but I believe the problem here arises because of the technicality of business and their status as Charitable organization. how to divide the funds accordingly is an accounting challenge. Hence, for now, I would believe the complications arise because of this dual used for the funds rather than Kong Hee and others siphoning Church funds.

BUT...

I think Kong Hee MUST come clean on the plagiarism committed in his books ON SALE.

 

[sufferwell]

new creation church's joseph prince is actually a singh, indian father and chinese mother..

no one knows his real name..

 

[Queen Seok Duk]

new creation church's joseph prince is actually a singh, indian father and chinese mother..

no one knows his real name..

So he is Joseph Singh ?

 

[Equalisation]

So he is Joseph Singh ?

Definitely not Rocket Singh, the prosecutor !!

 

[scroobal]

His real name is Jovinder Singh and he changed it via deed poll.

new creation church's joseph prince is actually a singh, indian father and chinese mother..

no one knows his real name..

 

[Watchman]