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American's mockery of China’s ADIZ backfired .

devilblue

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US says airlines should observe China zone

Reported scrambling of "combat aircraft" by China, including at least two fighter jets, threatens to escalate situation.

Last updated: 30 Nov 2013 02:59
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US commercial airlines should observe China's demand to be given notice of aircraft entering its newly declared air defence zone, the State Department has said. The Pentagon earlier indicated that American military forces would continue normal operations, despite China scrambling fighter jets to monitor US and Japanese aircraft in the area.
China's announcement last weekend that it was extending an air defence identification zone (ADIZ) over islands disputed by China and Japan was disregarded by several nations, and US B-52 bombers entered the area.
"We have flights routinely transiting international airspace throughout the Pacific, including the area China is including in their ADIZ," said Pentagon spokesman Colonel Steve Warren said on Friday.
"These flights are consistent with long-standing and well-known US freedom of navigation policies that are applied in many areas of operation around the world. I can confirm that the US has and will continue to operate in the area as normal."
Compliance by commercial flights "does not indicate US government acceptance of China's requirements for operating in the newly declared defence," the State Department said in a statement.
Echoing previous statements by the US administration, it said the US was "deeply concerned" by China's declaration of the air zone.
Japan, South Korea, the US and other countries have accused Beijing of increasing regional tensions with the air defense zone.
But the scrambling of "several combat aircraft" by China, including at least two fighter jets - according to state news agency Xinhua - threatens to escalate the situation.
"Several combat aircraft were scrambled to verify the identities" of US and Japanese aircraft entering the air defense zone, Xinhua said, quoting air force spokesman Shen Jinke.
The Chinese aircraft identified two US surveillance aircraft and 10 Japanese aircraft, including an F-15 warplane, Shen said.

Source:
AFP


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http://www.aljazeera.com/news/asia-pacific/2013/11/us-says-airlines-should-observe-china-zone-201311302118707465.html
 

syed putra

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china navy/coast guards/ research vessels routinely invade/landed on territories of other south east asian nation with no regards to internationally recognised boundaries. They can unilaterally declare the area belonged to their great great grand fathers.
 

devilblue

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Airlines Urged by U.S. to Give Notice to China

By PETER BAKER and JANE PERLEZ
Published: November 29, 2013

WASHINGTON — Even as China scrambled fighter jets to enforce its newly declared air defense zone, the Obama administration said on Friday that it was advising American commercial airlines to comply with China’s demands to be notified in advance of flights through the area.
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While the United States continued to defy China by sending military planes into the zone unannounced, administration officials said they had made the decision to urge civilian planes to adhere to Beijing’s new rules in part because they worried about an unintended confrontation.

Although the officials made clear that the administration rejects China’s unilateral declaration of control of the airspace over a large area of the East China Sea, the guidance to the airlines could be interpreted in the region as a concession in the battle of wills with China.
“The U.S. government generally expects that U.S. carriers operating internationally will operate consistent with” notice requirements “issued by foreign countries,” the State Department said in a statement, adding that that “does not indicate U.S. government acceptance of China’s requirements.”

The decision contrasted with that of Japan’s government this week, when it asked several Japanese airlines, which were voluntarily following China’s rules, to stop, apparently out of fear that complying with the rules would add legitimacy to Chinese claims to islands that sit below the now contested airspace. China’s newly declared zone, experts say, is intended mainly to whittle away at Japan’s hold on the islands, which it has long administered.
On Saturday, a Japanese Foreign Ministry official said, “We will not comment on what other countries are doing with regard to filing flight plans.” It was not immediately clear if the Obama administration had notified Japan, a close ally, of its decision.
An official at Japan’s Transport Ministry said it had no immediate change to its advice to Japanese airlines.

The American decision drew criticism from some quarters. Stephen Yates, a former Asia adviser to Dick Cheney when he was vice president, said it was “a bad move” that would undercut allies in the region that take a different stance.

But Strobe Talbott, a former deputy secretary of state under Bill Clinton and now president of the Brookings Institution, said it was important to avoid an accident while drawing a firm line. “The principal option is to be extremely clear that disputes” over territory “must be resolved through diplomacy and not unilateral action,” he said.

American officials said they began having talks with airlines on Wednesday and characterized the guidance Friday as simply following established international air protocols independent of any political deliberations. The American announcement came on the same day that Chinese state news media said that China sent jets aloft and that they identified two American surveillance planes and 10 Japanese aircraft in the air defense zone the country declared last weekend.

Although there was no indication that China’s air force showed any hostile intent, the move raised tensions. The Chinese had also sent jets on patrol into the contested airspace the day before, but Xinhua, the state-run news agency, indicated that the planes on Friday were scrambled specifically to respond to foreign jets in the area.
Earlier in the week, the United States sent unarmed B-52s into the area, and they proceeded unimpeded. China then appeared to back down somewhat from its initial declaration that planes must file advance flight plans or face possible military action.
The administration’s decision on Friday underscored the delicate position President Obama finds himself in, drawn into a geopolitical dispute that will test how far he is willing to go to contain China’s rising regional ambitions.

China’s move thrust the United States into the middle of the already prickly territorial clash between Beijing and Tokyo, a position the administration had avoided for months even while reiterating that the mutual defense treaty with Japan covers the islands. After the Chinese declaration last weekend, American officials feared that, if left unchallenged, the Chinese action would lead to ever greater claims elsewhere in the Pacific region.

But with planes flying so fast and in such proximity, the administration’s worries grew that an accident or an unintended confrontation could spiral out of control. A midair collision between a Chinese fighter jet and an American spy plane off the coast of China in 2001 killed the fighter pilot and forced the spy plane to make an emergency landing on Hainan Island, setting off a diplomatic episode until Beijing released the American crew and sent the plane back, broken into parts.

“The challenge here, as with April 2001, is when you have an unexpected crisis, things escalate very, very quickly without any plans for de-escalation,” said Jon M. Huntsman Jr., Mr. Obama’s first ambassador to China. “That’s one of the big challenges we have in the U.S.-China relationship.”

One of the biggest challenges for Mr. Obama will be navigating the complicated personalities of leaders in Tokyo and Beijing. Prime Minister Shinzo Abe of Japan, a strong nationalist, has vowed to stand firm against any Chinese encroachments, while President Xi Jinping of China has recently taken over as leader and has promised to advance a strong foreign policy meant to win his country more recognition as an international power.

The two countries have been at odds for years over the uninhabited islands known as Diaoyu by the Chinese and Senkaku by the Japanese. The United States does not take a position on the dispute.

Although administration officials believe China’s actions are mainly meant to give it an advantage in its struggle with Japan over the islands, experts on Asia say they also fit China’s larger goal of establishing itself as the dominant power in the region, displacing the United States.

Administration officials said they decided to proceed with routine military training and surveillance flights so as not to legitimize China’s assertion of control over the airspace or encourage it to establish a similar air zone over the South China Sea, where it has other territorial disputes. China had said it expected to set up other air defense zones, and experts said they expected one to cover that sea.

“We don’t want this to be the first in what would be a series of assertive moves,” said an administration official, who insisted on anonymity to discuss a delicate diplomatic matter. “The whole area’s fraught.”

Mr. Obama is sending Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. to the region next week, when he will meet with Mr. Xi and Mr. Abe as well as South Korea’s leader. Although the trip was previously scheduled, it will put Mr. Biden in the center of the dispute, and aides said he would deliver a message of caution to both sides to avoid escalation.

Many countries, including the United States and Japan, have air defense zones, but the coordinates of the Chinese zone overlap those of Japan, South Korea and Taiwan.

Peter Dutton, the director of the China Maritime Studies Institute at the United States Naval War College, said the new air zone also gives China a legal structure to intercept American surveillance flights in international airspace, which have long irritated Beijing. “It is clear that the Chinese do not seek regional stability on any level,” he said. “They intend to be disruptive in order to remake the Asian regional system in accordance with their preferences.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/30/w...jets-for-first-time-in-new-air-zone.html?_r=0
 

Sinkie

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Asset
What so destabilizing? China is the dominant force in the region. Nothing can stop that, so dun even try.
 

3_M

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Airlines are in the business of making money and not politicking. There is no way that a jetliner can defy the order to report flight plan when probed and risk intercept. No passenger would want to put themselves at risk in this dispute. I would rather take a airline that comply with ADIZ than one which doesn't because their gov pressure them not to.
 

devilblue

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30 November 2013 Last updated at 07:26 GMT

US carriers urged to comply with China air zone rules


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US aircraft may follow several regional carriers complying with China's new rules

The US says it expects its civilian aircraft to observe China's rules in an air defence zone in the East China Sea.

A US statement said this did not mean the US accepted China's requirements in the zone covering territory claimed by China, Japan, Taiwan and South Korea.

China wants all aircraft there to file flight plans and identify themselves.
The US, Japan and South Korea say they have flown military aircraft in the area unannounced. But China said it scrambled fighter jets on Friday.

The move was to monitor US and Japanese aircraft in the zone.

'Firm but calm'

The air defence identification zone (ADIZ) covers a vast area of the East China Sea, including a group of islands claimed by Japan, China and Taiwan.
South Korea claims a submerged rock, known as Ieodo, also within the zone.

The establishment of the ADIZ has caused widespread anger, with the US state department calling it "an attempt to unilaterally change the status quo in the East China Sea" which will "raise regional tensions and increase the risk of miscalculation, confrontation and accidents".
But on Friday, the state department said the US government "generally expects that US carriers operating internationally will operate consistent with Notams [Notices to Airmen] issued by foreign countries".


It added: "Our expectation of operations by US carriers consistent with NOTAMs does not indicate U.S. government acceptance of China's requirements for operating in the newly declared ADIZ." Japan has instructed its aircraft not to observe China's rules. But a number of regional commercial airlines - including Singapore Airlines, Qantas and Korean Air - have said they will comply.

China announced on Thursday it was deploying warplanes in the area for surveillance and defence.

Then on Friday, Air Force spokesman Col Shen Jinke said warplanes had been scrambled that morning to monitor two US surveillance aircraft and 10 Japanese planes - including early warning aircraft, surveillance aircraft and fighter jets - crossing through the ADIZ.

Col Shen said the jets had tracked the flights and identified the planes, state media reports.
Japanese officials gave no details of the flights, but said they were continuing to conduct routine operations in the region and had encountered no "abnormal instances so far".

Earlier, China's foreign ministry spokesman Qin Gang said China had a right to patrol the region and that the ADIZ was not aimed at any specific country.
"If some worry has emerged about the situation, it's agitated by some individual countries," he told a regular briefing.

If disputes existed, China wanted to solve them through "peaceful means via friendly negotiation," he said.

_71432045_e58ff0df-1443-4515-a7b6-6505df154af3.jpg
China, Japan and Taiwan all claim islands lying within the air defence zone

Japanese Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said on Friday that Japan would respond "firmly but in a calm manner" to China's move, the Kyodo news agency reports.

Foreign Minister Fumio Kushida said the issue would be discussed with US Vice-President Joe Biden, who is due to begin a three-day visit to Japan on Monday.

The disputed group of uninhabited islands in the zone are known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in Chinese.

They are controlled by Japan, but have been the subject of rising tensions in recent years because of their proximity to important shipping lanes, fishing grounds and potential fossil fuel reserves.
South Korea has complained to China that the ADIZ also overlaps its own similar defence zone, and encompasses the Ieodo rock.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-25165503
 

devilblue

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U.S. 'advising' airlines to 'comply' with China request on disputed zone

By Jim Acosta. Jason Hanna and Tom Watkins, CNN
November 30, 2013 -- Updated 0252 GMT (1052 HKT)

(CNN) -- China, Japan and the United States are continuing their tense standoff in Beijing's disputed new air defense zone Friday -- a treacherous situation that both sides warn could lead to violence, intended or not.
131126182715-tsr-starr-us-b-52-flies-into-east-china-sea-00003906-story-top.jpg
To this point, a senior official in U.S. President Barack Obama's administration said Friday that commercial airlines are being told to abide by Beijing's call to notify it of plans to traverse the newly declared zone over the East China Sea, even if the U.S. government doesn't recognize it.

"We ... are advising for safety reasons that they comply with notices to airmen, which FAA always advises," the official said.

This advice reflects fears that the back-and-forth between the two sides could have unintended consequences involving not just opposing troops, but innocent civilians as well. It's a subtle change from two days earlier, when the State Department said "the U.S. government generally expects that U.S. carriers operating internationally" comply with other countries' mandates, rather than directing them to.

Whatever U.S. carriers do, two major Japanese airlines have refused to comply with China's declaration.

Last Saturday, China unilaterally announced the creation of a "Air Defense Identification Zone" over several islands it and Japan have both claimed. The two countries have been sharply at odds over those isles, which are believed to be near large reserves of natural resources.

Tokyo rejected the new zone, as well as Beijing's insistence that aircraft entering it identify themselves and file flight plans. They were joined by South Korea and Washington, with Secretary of State John Kerry saying the move would "only increase tensions in the region and create risks of an incident."

Since then, there's been no backing down.

On Friday morning, for instance, China scrambled fighter jets after U.S. and Japanese military aircraft entered its disputed air defense zone, according to a Chinese military official.

Col. Shen Jinke, a Chinese air force spokesman, said in Beijing that the two U.S. and 10 Japanese aircraft were monitoring targets in the zone. He said the Chinese air force and navy were identifying and monitoring all foreign warplanes in the zone.

A U.S. military official told CNN that at least one U.S. unarmed military aircraft and several Japanese military aircraft flew through the zone Friday without incident. The official said the U.S. flight was part of scheduled routine operations.

"This is status quo," the official said. "We are not changing what we are doing. We are not trying to make a point with China. We fly U.S. aircraft daily in international airspace in the region. This is normal."

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/11/29/world/asia/china-japan-us-tensions/
 

Sinkie

Alfrescian (Inf)
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If the USA is so fucking brave, why not fly the B52 all the way to Beijing and see what happen.
 

neddy

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If the USA is so fucking brave, why not fly the B52 all the way to Beijing and see what happen.

Dun mistaken bravery for dumb foolery.
It will take an Extremely Stupid country to fly to Beijing.
 

Devil Within

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Told you China won't need to go to war with USA. China just need to wave USA's IOU debts and problem solved.
 

tanwahtiu

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Will USA send a scapegoat commercial plane to get it shot down and escalates the situation?

No money to pay back China might as well find an excuse not to pay.

Will all the Chinese over the world stand up for Chinese?



If the USA is so fucking brave, why not fly the B52 all the way to Beijing and see what happen.
 

chuckyworld

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Will USA send a scapegoat commercial plane to get it shot down and escalates the situation?

No money to pay back China might as well find an excuse not to pay.

Will all the Chinese over the world stand up for Chinese?

It will be no different than what US did to flight 655 passengers airline from Iran, courtesy of US navy pay off and try to hush it up That is what US did.
 

yellowarse

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The people who saw the ADIZ declaration as a lose-lose policy for China must have their heads examined. You mean the Chinese really miscalculated and did not foresee that the US would test the zone by flying B52s in? The Chinese may be stubborn, they may be rude, but they're not stupid.

By testing the no-fly zone, the US (& Japan) has fallen into China's trap:

1. The Chinese can now 'scramble' their jets and fly all over their proclaimed ADIZ, including the airspace over the Diaoyutai, justifying it on the basis that their airspace has been 'invaded' and they need to 'monitor' it aggressively;

2. Japan has been expanding their own ADIZ steadily westwards since America drew it up for them in the '50s. Now the Chinese can simply conduct combined aerial and naval manoeuvres in Japan's ADIZ with impunity, again justifying that 'you fly into my ADIZ, I didn't shoot you; now I fly into yours, you'd better lan lan and keep quiet".

When the entire commercial aircraft fraternity eventually chooses to report to Beijing whenever they fly into the zone, it will be a de facto international recognition of Beijing's air boundaries, even if international law doesn't cover ADIZ's.

Win-win-win.
 
Last edited:

Sinkie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
The people who saw the ADIZ declaration as a lose-lose policy for China must have their heads examined. You mean the Chinese really miscalculated and did not foresee that the US would test the zone by flying B52s in? The Chinese may be stubborn, they may be rude, but they're not stupid.

By testing the no-fly zone, the US (& Japan) has fallen into China's trap:

1. The Chinese can now 'scramble' their jets and fly all over their proclaimed ADIZ, including the airspace over the Diaoyutai, justifying it on the basis that their airspace has been 'invaded' and they need to 'monitor' it aggressively;

2. Japan has been expanding their own ADIZ steadily westwards since America drew it up for them in the '50s. Now the Chinese can simply conduct combined aerial and naval manoeuvres in Japan's ADIZ with impunity, again justifying that 'you fly into my ADIZ, I didn't shoot you; now I fly into yours, you'd better lan lan and keep quiet".

When the entire commercial aircraft fraternity eventually chooses to report to Beijing whenever they fly into the zone, it will be a de facto international recognition of Beijing's air boundaries, even if international law doesn't cover ADIZ's.

Win-win-win.

Lol...........When the dragon awakes, the ground will shake. It is happening.
 

Sinkie

Alfrescian (Inf)
Asset
Will USA send a scapegoat commercial plane to get it shot down and escalates the situation?

No money to pay back China might as well find an excuse not to pay.

Will all the Chinese over the world stand up for Chinese?

It is impossible for USA to retaliate.....the Chinese will end up arming the Al Qaeda elements to launch another 10 years of terrorism against USA and this time it will be the final nail to the coffin for USA.
 

devilblue

Alfrescian
Loyal
The people who saw the ADIZ declaration as a lose-lose policy for China must have their heads examined. You mean the Chinese really miscalculated and did not foresee that the US would test the zone by flying B52s in? The Chinese may be stubborn, they may be rude, but they're not stupid.

By testing the no-fly zone, the US (& Japan) has fallen into China's trap:

1. The Chinese can now 'scramble' their jets and fly all over their proclaimed ADIZ, including the airspace over the Diaoyutai, justifying it on the basis that their airspace has been 'invaded' and they need to 'monitor' it aggressively;

2. Japan has been expanding their own ADIZ steadily westwards since America drew it up for them in the '50s. Now the Chinese can simply conduct combined aerial and naval manoeuvres in Japan's ADIZ with impunity, again justifying that 'you fly into my ADIZ, I didn't shoot you; now I fly into yours, you'd better lan lan and keep quiet".

When the entire commercial aircraft fraternity eventually chooses to report to Beijing whenever they fly into the zone, it will be a de facto international recognition of Beijing's air boundaries, even if international law doesn't cover ADIZ's.

Win-win-win.

PLA had strategically turned the table to their sides.

A week or two ago, media reported only about how PLA planes are entering or violating into Japan's ADIZ.

Now these media report only about how American and Japanese planes entering or violating into newly China's ADIZ, and how American airliners complying to China's ADIZ requirements. The air zone now becomes a de-facto PLA administrated zone.

Guess like, the American is now assisting the japanese to look for a new prime minister to come on board.
 
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