American - Some Hard Truths

[LordElrond]

No one is here to dispute US’ contribution to end the 2nd world war but that is history. One can go further back and claimed the Roman Empire was the most powerful 2000 years ago. China did not even have an “economy” so to say, in that era where US ended the WW II

But things have changed. UK is weak and undecided, whereas Japan and Germany has risen beyond the ashes WW II and became technological and economic powerhouses. And have gone into years of recession as well. America was respected for probably half a century for its moral leadership, for its economic power, their private enterprises achievement was phenomenal and brought great progress to the world.

And then, things continued turning worse for for America and there is no turning back without a miracle. If you are still reminiscing in the greatness of America, I suggest you play yourself some sentimental music. All good things will come to and end, just like the great Roman Empire. America became so full of itself after crushing Russia in the Cold War, thks to that dumbo Gorbachev who allowed the Soviet Union to adopt the path of Perestroika. (I still suspect till this day Gorbachev was a mole planted by Ronald Reagan to break up Soviet Union.) America, the sole superpower, gloat in it’s invincibility and nobody could stop them. They started committing grave errors by spending too much time focussing on instigating regime changes all over the world, whichever Govt that is not aligned to American interest. They spent billions on wars and ignored their trillions of deficit. They didn’t care because the Japanese would fund them anyway, in the form of the worthless US Bonds. In a way they knew that Japan is forever indebted to them and won’t push them to repay. And then came the rise of China who was happy to share the burden of Japan. Still, America forgot they need to take care of their own backyard! While everyone else shot ahead with progress, economic development, poverty eradication, overhaul of infrastructure and civil service... America remain stuck in the 70s. And then they realised their very own American enterprises moved half their jobs to their new enemy China. Out of own will, China did not force them!

US is technically owned by Japan/China. US will never be able to redeem it’s Govt Bonds. It has to keep issuing new Bonds to replace maturing ones. It is technically bankrupt, eg. If Japan/China decided to stop subscribing to US Bonds.

And being the 野蛮 people as they are, instead of expressing gratitude, they abuse their lenders. Can you imagine you lend money to your bankrupt buddy and he still spew nonsense about you. Why do people condone such behavior?? China has its issues which you may not like, but heck, it’s their political system. If they are stupid like Gorbachev and adopt Perestroika like reforms, they will sure be the next Russia. So kudos to China for its wisdom. One will have to be wary of their growing dominance which could lead to bad behavior “one day” but hellooooooo.... US is already behaving like a gangster?

 

[tanwahtiu]

Well said.. balance view and u r a champ...

No one is here to dispute US’ contribution to end the 2nd world war but that is history. One can go further back and claimed the Roman Empire was the most powerful 2000 years ago. China did not even have an “economy” so to say, in that era where US ended the WW II

But things have changed. UK is weak and undecided, whereas Japan and Germany has risen beyond the ashes WW II and became technological and economic powerhouses. And have gone into years of recession as well. So you are just being sentimental. America was respected for probably half a century for its moral leadership, for its economic power, their private enterprises achievement was phenomenal and brought great progress to the world.

But things have turned bad for quite some time. All good things will come to and end, just like the great Roman Empire. America became so full of itself after crushing Russia in the Cold War, thks to that dumbo Gorbachev who allowed the Soviet Union to adopt the path of Perestroika. (I still suspect till this day Gorbachev was a mole planted by Ronald Reagan to break up Soviet Union.)

America, the sole superpower, gloat in it’s invincibility and nobody could stop them. They started committing grave errors by spending too much time focussing on instigating regime changes all over the world, whichever Govt that is not aligned to American interest. They spent billions on wars and ignored their trillions of deficit. They didn’t care because the Japanese would fund them anyway, in the form of the worthless US Bonds. In a way they knew that Japan is forever indebted to them and won’t push them to repay. And then came the rise of China who was happy to share the burden of Japan.

US is technically owned by Japan/China. US will never be able to redeem it’s Govt Bonds. It has to keep issuing new Bonds to replace maturing ones. It is technically bankrupt, eg. If Japan/China decided to stop subscribing to US Bonds.

And being the 野蛮 people as they are, instead of expressing gratitude, they abuse their lenders. Can you imagine you lend money to your bankrupt buddy and he still spew nonsense about you. Why do people condone such behavior?? China has its issues which you may not like, but heck, it’s their political system. If they are stupid like Gorbachev and adopt Perestroika like reforms, they will sure be the next Russia. So kudos to China for its wisdom. One will have to be wary of their growing dominance which could lead to bad behavior “one day” but hellooooooo.... US is already behaving like a gangster?

 

[LaoTze]

No one is here to dispute US’ contribution to end the 2nd world war but that is history.

USA COULD NOT HAVE WON WW2

BUT FOR THE FACT USSR TOOK ON THE VAST MAJORITY OF HITLER ARMED FORCES AND TANKS
D DAY WAS A VERY SMALL SMALL PART OF THE WAR IN EUROPE

MORE THAN 80% OF GERMAN TANKS AND ARMY WERE FIGHTING USSR AND BEING TAKEN OUT BY ZHUKOV AND STALIN

D DAY OPERATIONS BY USA AND UK WAS OPPOSED BY ABOUT 4 TO 5 GERMAN DIVISIONS AND THOSE WERE LARGELY SEND FROM THE EASTERN FRONT TO RECUPERATE AND RECOVER FROM WOUNDS

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration WAS JUST ONE OF THOSE OPERATIONS

Operation Bagration


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Bagration (Belorussian Strategic Offensive Operation)
Part of the Eastern Front of World War II
Deployments during Operation Bagration
Date 23 June – 19 August 1944 Location Soviet Union (present day Belarus, Baltic states), Ukraine, and eastern Poland Result Soviet victory Destruction of Army Group Centre Territorial changes Soviets liberate all of Byelorussian SSR and gain foothold in eastern Poland.
Germany	Soviet Union Poland
Ernst Busch Walter Model Hans Jordan Georg-Hans Reinhardt Kurt von Tippelskirch Walter Weiss	Konstantin Rokossovsky Georgy Zhukov Aleksandr Vasilevsky Ivan Bagramyan Georgiy Zakharov Ivan Chernyakhovsky
Army Group Center 9th Army 3rd Panzer Army 4th Army 2nd Army	1st Baltic Front 1st Belorussian Front 2nd Belorussian Front 3rd Belorussian Front
Initially: 486,493 combat personnel,[1] 849,000 total [2] 118 tanks[3] 452 assault guns[3] 3,236 field guns and howitzers[3] 920 aircraft[3] In total: Soviet sources:[4] 1,036,760 personnel 800 tanks 530 assault guns 10,090 guns 1,000–1,300 aircraft	Initially: 1,670,300 personnel 3,841 tanks and 1,977 assault guns[3][5] 32,718 guns, rocket launchers and mortars[3] 7,799 aircraft[3] In total: Frieser: 2,500,000 personnel 6,000 tanks and assault guns[3] 45,000 guns, rocket launchers and mortars[3] 8,000 aircraft[3][6]

Operation,[14] (Russian: Белорусская наступательная операция «Багратион», Belorusskaya nastupatelnaya Operatsiya Bagration) a military campaign fought between 23 June and 19 August 1944 in Soviet Byelorussia in the Eastern Front of World War II.[15] The Soviet Union inflicted the biggest defeat in German military history by destroying 28 out of 34 divisions of Army Group Centre and completely shattered the German front line.[16] It was the fifth deadliest campaign on the European war scene, killing around 450,000 soldiers.[17]
On 23 June 1944, the Red Army attacked Army Group Centre in Byelorussia, with the objective of encircling and destroying its main component armies. By 28 June, the German Fourth Army had been destroyed, along with most of the Third Panzer and Ninth Armies.[18][19] The Red Army exploited the collapse of the German front line to encircle German formations in the vicinity of Minsk in the Minsk Offensive and destroy them, with Minsk liberated on 4 July. With the end of effective German resistance in Byelorussia, the Soviet offensive continued further to Lithuania, Poland and Romania over the course of July and August.
The Red Army successfully used the Soviet deep battle and maskirovka (deception) strategies for the first time to a full extent, albeit with continuing heavy losses. Operation Bagration diverted German mobile reserves to the central sectors, removing them from the Lublin-Brest and Lvov–Sandomierz areas, enabling the Soviets to undertake the Lvov–Sandomierz Offensive[20] and Lublin–Brest Offensive.[21] This allowed the Red Army to reach the Vistula river and Warsaw, which in turn put Soviet forces within striking distance of Berlin, conforming to the concept of Soviet deep operations—striking into the enemy's strategic depths.[22]


AND IN THE PACIFIC WAR, USA WITH HER BATTLESHIPS AND 16 INCH GUNS AND CARRIERS AND PLANES AND UNLIMITED BOMBS AND AMMO WERE KILLING 300,000 JAPS

CHINA WITH SINGLE SHOT BOLT RIFLES AND KNIVES AND BARE BODIES WILL TAKING ON AND KILLING 3,000,000 JAPANESE IN CHINA. IF JAPAN WAS ABLE TO SEND JUST 10% OF JAPANESE FORCES FROM CHINA, USA WOULD HAVE LOST THE FUCKING PACIFIC WAR.

WITHOUT USSR AND WITHOUT CHINA, USA WILL NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WIN WW2

 

[LordElrond]

Thanks for the details. Agreed. They pulled together some... was it Russian scientists... to make the atomic bomb. I did not go into that as it would spew a whole chain of debate as to whether how much US contributed to end the war. I took the “official” version which was of course written by the Americans themselves.

 

[tanwahtiu]

And the coward CAM resorted to use A bomb...

USA COULD NOT HAVE WON WW2

BUT FOR THE FACT USSR TOOK ON THE VAST MAJORITY OF HITLER ARMED FORCES AND TANKS
D DAY WAS A VERY SMALL SMALL PART OF THE WAR IN EUROPE

MORE THAN 80% OF GERMAN TANKS AND ARMY WERE FIGHTING USSR AND BEING TAKEN OUT BY ZHUKOV AND STALIN

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Bagration WAS JUST ONE OF THOSE OPERATIONS

Operation Bagration


From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Operation Bagration (Belorussian Strategic Offensive Operation)
Part of the Eastern Front of World War II
Deployments during Operation Bagration
Date 23 June – 19 August 1944 Location Soviet Union (present day Belarus, Baltic states), Ukraine, and eastern Poland Result Soviet victory Destruction of Army Group Centre Territorial changes Soviets liberate all of Byelorussian SSR and gain foothold in eastern Poland.
Germany	Soviet Union Poland
Ernst Busch Walter Model Hans Jordan Georg-Hans Reinhardt Kurt von Tippelskirch Walter Weiss	Konstantin Rokossovsky Georgy Zhukov Aleksandr Vasilevsky Ivan Bagramyan Georgiy Zakharov Ivan Chernyakhovsky
Army Group Center 9th Army 3rd Panzer Army 4th Army 2nd Army	1st Baltic Front 1st Belorussian Front 2nd Belorussian Front 3rd Belorussian Front
Initially: 486,493 combat personnel,[1] 849,000 total [2] 118 tanks[3] 452 assault guns[3] 3,236 field guns and howitzers[3] 920 aircraft[3] In total: Soviet sources:[4] 1,036,760 personnel 800 tanks 530 assault guns 10,090 guns 1,000–1,300 aircraft	Initially: 1,670,300 personnel 3,841 tanks and 1,977 assault guns[3][5] 32,718 guns, rocket launchers and mortars[3] 7,799 aircraft[3] In total: Frieser: 2,500,000 personnel 6,000 tanks and assault guns[3] 45,000 guns, rocket launchers and mortars[3] 8,000 aircraft[3][6]

Operation,[14] (Russian: Белорусская наступательная операция «Багратион», Belorusskaya nastupatelnaya Operatsiya Bagration) a military campaign fought between 23 June and 19 August 1944 in Soviet Byelorussia in the Eastern Front of World War II.[15] The Soviet Union inflicted the biggest defeat in German military history by destroying 28 out of 34 divisions of Army Group Centre and completely shattered the German front line.[16] It was the fifth deadliest campaign on the European war scene, killing around 450,000 soldiers.[17]
On 23 June 1944, the Red Army attacked Army Group Centre in Byelorussia, with the objective of encircling and destroying its main component armies. By 28 June, the German Fourth Army had been destroyed, along with most of the Third Panzer and Ninth Armies.[18][19] The Red Army exploited the collapse of the German front line to encircle German formations in the vicinity of Minsk in the Minsk Offensive and destroy them, with Minsk liberated on 4 July. With the end of effective German resistance in Byelorussia, the Soviet offensive continued further to Lithuania, Poland and Romania over the course of July and August.
The Red Army successfully used the Soviet deep battle and maskirovka (deception) strategies for the first time to a full extent, albeit with continuing heavy losses. Operation Bagration diverted German mobile reserves to the central sectors, removing them from the Lublin-Brest and Lvov–Sandomierz areas, enabling the Soviets to undertake the Lvov–Sandomierz Offensive[20] and Lublin–Brest Offensive.[21] This allowed the Red Army to reach the Vistula river and Warsaw, which in turn put Soviet forces within striking distance of Berlin, conforming to the concept of Soviet deep operations—striking into the enemy's strategic depths.[22]


AND IN THE PACIFIC WAR, USA WITH HER BATTLESHIPS AND 16 INCH GUNS AND CARRIERS AND PLANES AND UNLIMITED BOMBS AND AMMO WERE KILLING 300,000 JAPS

CHINA WITH SINGLE SHOT BOLT RIFLES AND KNIVES AND BARE BODIES WILL TAKING ON AND KILLING 3,000,000 JAPANESE IN CHINA

WITHOUT USSR AND WITHOUT CHINA, USA WILL NOT HAVE BEEN ABLE TO WIN WW2

 

[LaoTze]

“Over the past decade, in U.S. war games against China, the United States has a nearly perfect record: We have lost almost every single time.”

https://www.sammyboy.com/threads/“over-the-past-decade-in-u-s-war-games-against-china-the-united-states-has-a-nearly-perfect-record-we-have-lost-almost-every-single-time-”.285734/#post-3124437

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...8e1bba-948b-11ea-9f5e-56d8239bf9ad_story.html


Here’s a fact that ought to startle every American who assumes that because we spend nearly $1 trillion each year on defense, we have primacy over our emerging rival, China.
“Over the past decade, in U.S. war games against China, the United States has a nearly perfect record: We have lost almost every single time.”
That’s a quote from a new book called “The Kill Chain: Defending America in the Future of High-Tech Warfare,” the most provocative critique of U.S. defense policy I’ve read in years. It’s written by Christian Brose, former staff director of the Senate Armed Services Committee and a close adviser to late senator John McCain (R-Ariz.). The book isn’t just a wake-up call, it’s a fire alarm in the night.



USA WON AGAINST NICARAGUA, GRENADA AND PANANA.
THATS ABOUT THE WARS USA WON SINCE WW2




In Korea where USA firepower was at least 100 times more than China and China industrial might was much less than sub Sahara Africa , the Chinese whacked USA and the UN combined that they had to flee south of the Parallel as demanded by China.

And what about Vietnam?
What ws the military edge USA had over Vietnam and China who supported Vietnam with boots on the ground.
About 100 or more to 1?
Didn’t USA had far far greater military technology supremacy over China and Vietnam?
Firepower of USA which included B52s, battleships, Spooky gunships? Helicopter gunships and who threw everything into fighting Viets including toilet bowls?

Your memory so short?
Maybe this can refresh your memory.
How about this!

Mylai rings a bell? A moment to be proud of ? Among many other moments like Mylai.
Help to boost up the numbers for body counts! Small or big, young or old, still bodies to be counted!

USA fought with gunships, battleships, fighter planes from carriers, B52s, massive firepower and total air superiority, against pajamas clad fighters with flip flops from used truck tyres firing AKs and RPGs.
And with courage as they fought for freedom and their land whereas USA fought to enshrine corrupt dictators.
You proud of that?
I wish you joy in such kind of pride.
This was the end result.
You remember this ? Or too painful?

What was the military edge USA have over a bunch of separate goat herders in Afghan? Do not even need the entire fucking country of Afghan.
10,000 to 1 ?
Or is it the Afghan goat herders have military technology greater than USA??
I finished reading “the Outpost” by Jake Tapper. How a bunch of goat herders in Afghan with AKs and rpgs and IEDs (because they do not have billion dollar industry to make bombs like USA, can only make bombs in backyard on a DIY basis) taking out USA brave men despite they having 155 howizters , 120 mm mortars , Ma Deuces, A-10s, properly build bombs, B52s and helicopter gunships , AC-130 Spectre Gunships and billions of dollars backing them and not so good in protecting them.
If USA fought bravely with massive firepower behind them, then what about the goat herders with only AKs and RPGs fighting against USA knowing they fighting against 155 howizters , 120 mm mortars , Ma Deuces, A-10s, properly build bombs, B52s and helicopter gunships , AC-130 Spectre Gunships ?
Even more fucking brave is the least I can say of the Afghans goat herders. Who were untrained knowing only how to herd goats unlike the USA special forces who went through countless hours and weeks and months learning how to kill and kill.
Yet who won? And who left Afghan?
Maybe USA army should consider making their fighting folks do a course in goat herding . As who knows, maybe herding goats might be better to build up fighting skills.

USA got fucked when USA tried that in Afghan . Against a bunch of tribesmen when USA had 1000 the firepower over them. And after a trillion of dollars what have USA got to show in Afghan?
Why did the United States of America fail to win the war in Afghanistan even after 17 years? Why does the lone superpower fail to defeat a group of goat herders?
And in Somalia. A bunch of ex fishermen and part time goat herders with nothing more than AKs and RPGs chased USA out running with tail between legs

What military edge USA got in Iraq over Sadr? 1,000 to 1?
Or is it Sadr got better and more advanced military technology over USA?
In Iraq losing out to Sadr who had 1000 times less firepower than USA.
Having no more than AKs and rpgs.

USA want to invade China when China military technology is better and China with more fire power over USA?
Please do not have war with China.
Do not even think of a nuclear war with China because you think China got only 300 nukes and USA got thousands of nukes.
But if even one nuke land on China or Chinese forces, USA and all of USA bases around the world from Guam to Okinawa and Japan and Diego Garcia and Singapore and UK and Europe will become lakes and seas of molten glowing green and multicolored glass.
Wuming Chan's answer to Could China's 200 nukes realistically kill more than 50% of the US population in a nuclear war?
Wuming Chan's answer to Which missile can be considered as the world's most dangerous Intercontinental Ballistic missile (ICBM) ?
Will the quarrels and disagreements that lead to this war be relevant or even remembered once the war started?
Can this kind of war ever come to an end once started?



With all that’s said, fact remain that modern Chinese and Russian howitzers shoot further and have more bang and more accurate than USA howitzer.

That matter a lot more to the end user. Not involved convulated explanations like in here why that is so and talking of comparing of apples and oranges. Some of the answers kept saying USA control the sky and will use her planes to bomb targets first and thus do not need long range artillery. Seems that came from USA experiences in fighting sheep and goat herders and fishermen of Somalia. And even at that, appeared to be losing the war in Afghan and Somalia. USA think she will control the sky when fighting with peers or near peers?

USA is a distant third to Russia and China. Be that in tube artillery or rocket artillery.

**Chinese tube artillery**

Top 10 Self-Propelled Howitzers

Saudi Arabia uses Chinese NORINCO PLZ-45 self propelled howitzer for the clear advantage over that of the best of USA artillery. More accurate and longer reach than the best of USA artillery. And Saudi Arabia is USA captive country and yet refused to use USA artillery as that so inferior to China.

PLZ-52 is capable of firing a full range of Chinese 155 mm munitions. Range of a standard High-Explosive Fragmentation (HE-FRAG) projectile is around 30 km and around 40 km of extended-range projectile. Maximum range of fire is 53 km with rocket-assisted projectile. It has been reported that China developed a GPS-guided 155 mm projectile. It was claimed that this projectile has a whooping maximum range of 100 km and accuracy of 40 m.

Saudis Use Chinese-made Cannons in Yemen (Saudis Use Chinese-made Cannons in Yemen
)

Rate of fire

Maximum:8–10 rounds/min
Sustained: 2 rounds/min

Look at the M109 below

Rate of fire

Maximum: 4 rpm/3 min.
Sustained: 1 rpm

Effective firing range

Conventional: 18 km (11 mi)
RAP
: 30 km (19 mi)

M109 totally outmatched by the PLZ-45.

It is not a wonder why even Saudi Arabia bought PLZ-45 despite they being a captive client country of USA and yet refused and rejected USA arty despite the obvious massive arm twisting of USA on Saudi Arabia.

**Rocket Artillery **

Now China is as good if not better than Russians in rocket artillery.

Top 10 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems (Top 10 Multiple Launch Rocket Systems
)

The PHL 03 is a Chinese artillery rocket system. It is a copy of the Soviet

Smerch (Smerch Multiple Launch Rocket System
)

. It reportedly entered service with the Chinese army in 2004-2005. The PHL 03 is also being proposed for the export customers as the AR2. It has been exported to Morocco (one battalion with 36 units).

The PHL 03 has 12 tubes for 300 mm rockets. A standard rocket weights around 800 kg and has a 280 kg warhead. Maximum range of fire is 70-130 km depending on the warhead type. Though some sources report that rockets of this system has a maximum range of 150 km. Rockets are available with High Explosive Fragmentation (HE-FRAG), fuel-air explosive, and cluster warheads with anti-armor and anti-personnel submunitions. Cluster warheads may also carry self-targeting anti-tank munitions. A full salvo of this system could potentially cover an area of up to 67 hectares.

**Even though the PHL 03 is a Chinese version of the Smerch, it appears that Chinese overtook Russians in terms of rockets, as rockets of the PHL 03 have longer range than those of the Smerch. Manufacturers claim, that Chinese 300 mm rockets are not compatible with the Russian Smerch rockets as these use different propellant motors and components.**

China's PHL03, advanced Multiple Launch Rocket System (China's PHL03, advanced Multiple Launch Rocket System
)

Various types of the 300 mm caliber rocket shells fired by the PHL03 are equipped with simple automatic correction system which allows more dense impact points. The impact point intensity doubles and the accuracy triples. In this way, a high kill probability with fewer rocket shells is possible.

Comparison with its peers

From the table above, it can be concluded that in terms of overall design, or in particular, the range, intensity, power, survivability and maneuverability, the PHL03 MLRS has a series of major breakthroughs compared with traditional rockets. Some of its aspects meet or even exceed the world's advanced level.

The service of the PHL03 Multiple Launch Rocket System has greatly enhanced the capability of remote fire support of the Chinese military. The operational performance of the system will continue to improve with the development of China's rocket shell technology. And it will become an indispensable remote firepower for the Chinese military.

And read this too

China’s new PCL191 multiple launch rocket system casts shadow over Taiwan Strait

• The ‘mystery’ hardware that appeared without a name at the National Day parade in October is the PLA’s most powerful MLRS ever, experts say
• System capable of firing eight 370mm rockets 350km or two 750mm ballistic missiles 500km

China’s new PCL191 multiple launch rocket system is capable of firing ballistic missiles up to 500km. Photo: Handout

The multiple launch rocket system (MLRS) that made its public debut at China’s
National Day parade
on October 1 has been identified as a state-of-the-art piece of weaponry capable of firing both rockets and ballistic missiles, according to a leading military magazine.
A report in the latest issue of Modern Ships also gave the new hardware a name – the Type PCL191 – saying it was a modular launcher based on the AR3 system developed by China for the export market.
Unlike other weapon systems on display in Beijing, which had their names emblazoned along their sides, the Type PCL191 rumbled through the streets of Beijing on the back of heavy-duty trucks with almost complete anonymity.


https://www.scmp.com/news/china/mil...91-multiple-launch-rocket-system-casts-shadow





Note the DF100s antiship missiles . Revealed only in Oct 2019. Mach 5 and range of 1000 km.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/chinas-df-100-missile-good-enough-kill-americas-navy-96476


China got 3000++ of Mach 3s YJ-12 and YJ18 to throw against the 11 carriers USA want to bring to their self declared FONOP.
Or at least 300++ Mach 3s on each carrier group.
Assuming only 20 % of those will hit. So be assured that at least 10 missiles will hit the carrier and not just 1 missile.
And not just the warhead, there will be 2–3 tons of missiles coming behind the warhead at Mach 3 tearing into the bulkheads and ordnance and aviation fuel and the poor men and women in the carrier. Those 2–3 tons of missile body will be tearing in the bulkheads faster and more deadly then APFSDS. Andf carrying its own unburned fuel to add to the fun.
Even steel will burn when hit with hell fire and tons of steel and debris coming in at Mach 3. The aviation fuel, and paint on walls, the bombs and ordnance will all cook off and add to the huge huge fire inside the carrier. Regardless if carrier under Condition Zebra or Donkey or Jackass.
The brave sailors in those carriers will not care or worry and be happy that their carrier not sinking. And only burning and burning from one end to the other end.

Remember in just ten minutes, China missiles will destroy all the fucking airbases and naval bases in Japan and Guam. And in the next 30 minutes, Chinee cruise missiles by the thousands will take out whatever the fuck the missiles left in Japan.

Whether the mosquito is female or male will also be known.
Your stealth F35s or B1s B2s got smaller radar profile than a mosquito?
China Using Radar To Combat Mosquitoes
China is using military technology to wage war ... on mosquitoes
USA or Israeli got any systems able to do that?
Thank you USA for enforcing ban on China in purchasing that from Israel or other countries.
Forcing China to do it all on its own and leaving you either far behind or far far behind.
**And Chinese air weaponary. To splash the air tankers and AWACs and JSTAR USA rely on to direct the fight in the air. And the Stealth planes of USA.**
How China's Clever New Missile Could Cripple American Air Power
China's Mach 6 Monster Air-to-Air Missile Could Make the U.S. Air Force Come in for a ‘Crash Landing’
This is what USA Airforce Secretary got to say in 2018
Air Force secretary: China, Russia could shoot down new JSTARS on day one of a war
There will be no usable bases for USA airforce in Japan or Guam within the first 10 minutes of the war.
First Strike: China's Missile Threat to U.S. Bases in Asia
A Missile 'Pearl Harbor': How China Could Win a War Against America?
Missile Strikes on U.S. Bases in Asia: Is This China's Real Threat to America?
Those bases will all be hit and cratered by DFs with conventional warheads so planes cannot take off.
Go into above to see photos of strikes made by Chinese on model setups in the Western desert of China that represent hardened bunkers for planes and runways and dock settings with models of Burkes and Ticos and the bases HQs to see the pin point targetting of the DFs.

Naval assets and head quarters will all be hit and sunk and taken out of play.
Then Chinese cruise missiles will fly by the thousands to take out planes still stuck in those bases.
As for shooting war at the sea. And forgetting for time being the DF-21Ds and DF-26Bs and CM-401s that China have and figment of imagination in heads of USA Admirals.
Just on AShMs.
Xi Jinping's Rocket Force is nullifying U.S. military primacy in Asia

 

[steffychun]

In the past two decades, the US has waged wars in the Middle East, Africa and pseudo wars acrsoss the world. China on the other hand has minute or zero conflicts while making vast economic advancement at home and abroad.

Ask Kishore Mahbubani

 

[LaoTze]

In the past two decades, the US has waged wars in the Middle East, Africa and pseudo wars acrsoss the world. China on the other hand has minute or zero conflicts while making vast economic advancement at home and abroad.

Ask Kishore Mahbubani

USA COURAGE IN TAKING ON AND FIGHTING GOAT HERDERS BREATH TAKING
AND EVEN THEN, THEY LOST IN AFGHAN AND SOMALIA AS GOAT HERDERS COULD FIGHT WITH COURAGE AND FOUGHT BETTER THAN
USA MARINES AND SPECIAL FORCES DESPITE THE YEARS OF FIGHTING TRAINING THAT THEY GOT AND HIGH TECH TOYS TO HELP THEM

USA got fucked when USA tried that in Afghan . Against a bunch of tribesmen when USA had 1000 the firepower over them. And after a trillion of dollars what have USA got to show in Afghan?
Why did the United States of America fail to win the war in Afghanistan even after 17 years? Why does the lone superpower fail to defeat a group of goat herders?
And in Somalia. A bunch of ex fishermen and part time goat herders with nothing more than AKs and RPGs chased USA out running with tail between legs

What military edge USA got in Iraq over Sadr? 1,000 to 1?
Or is it Sadr got better and more advanced military technology over USA?
In Iraq losing out to Sadr who had 1000 times less firepower than USA.
Having no more than AKs and rpgs.

 

[knnb40]

....

And being the 野蛮 people as they are, instead of expressing gratitude, they abuse their lenders. Can you imagine you lend money to your bankrupt buddy and he still spew nonsense about you. Why do people condone such behavior?? China has its issues which you may not like, but heck, it’s their political system. If they are stupid like Gorbachev and adopt Perestroika like reforms, they will sure be the next Russia. So kudos to China for its wisdom. One will have to be wary of their growing dominance which could lead to bad behavior “one day” but hellooooooo.... US is already behaving like a gangster?

why ? because until now no body can do anything to US.
President before Trump still behave with good manner although back in their head they feel as per Trump.
Trump basically bring out the brutal truth about US (see how the common US citizen when interviewed by foreign reporter, they have no idea who and who outside their state or outside USA)

 

[syed putra]

If china and Japan don't buy those bonds, us will stop buying theur products.

 

[frenchbriefs]

What u mean?USA is the most successful regime ever.....name me another empire that has successfully got the world to hate the communists,despite the fact that it was the Soviets that defeated the Nazis,killed 80 percent of the krauts and sacrificed 26 million of their people,while USA was dicking around .....destroyed the middle East,practically every Arab country except Saudi and Dubai is in shambles,crippled Japan's economy since the 90s,and is in the process of turning the world against China....

And somehow manages to be the most beloved country in the world,except to those who are woke....and has shaped an entire world's ideology and worldview with its propaganda and intellectuals,fooling the world and even her own people....for example Siegmund Freud and his cousin Bernays shaped the world thru American consumerism and advertising ......thru psycho analysis......that despite claims to be logical,there hidden within each man's subconscious there exist strong uncontrollable chaotic emotions and forces.....people could be persuaded they wanted something even more not thru logic but appealing to their basal primal instincts and hidden desires.....
And later how Reagan used psycho analysis to win elections,by understanding what drove people on the inside,people could be divided into a few categories,there were people who were conservative,and then there were people who possessed strong inner directives that existed regardless of age,race,sex or religion and had no distinctive features,this was usually the left wing and liberals,that focused on the outwards on society and the greater good as a whole.by focusing on what drove these people,they realised they could even get the liberals,left wing to vote for conservative.and how the culture of individualism" in America was developed.....yes u guessed in,to drive consumption and sell even more products.
How Henry Kissinger shaped world politics,and believed in one world order,how Assad believed in a stronger United middle East,and how Henry Kissinger undermined everything and brought the entire region crashing down.

 

[whoami]

And the coward CAM resorted to use A bomb...

No choice lah. Else u would be speaking jap n worshippg the Emperor now. But the "Fat man" was unnecessary. Tat one evil.

 

[Peiweh]

No one is here to dispute US’ contribution to end the 2nd world war but that is history. One can go further back and claimed the Roman Empire was the most powerful 2000 years ago. China did not even have an “economy” so to say, in that era where US ended the WW II

But things have changed. UK is weak and undecided, whereas Japan and Germany has risen beyond the ashes WW II and became technological and economic powerhouses. And have gone into years of recession as well. America was respected for probably half a century for its moral leadership, for its economic power, their private enterprises achievement was phenomenal and brought great progress to the world.

And then, things continued turning worse for for America and there is no turning back without a miracle. If you are still reminiscing in the greatness of America, I suggest you play yourself some sentimental music. All good things will come to and end, just like the great Roman Empire. America became so full of itself after crushing Russia in the Cold War, thks to that dumbo Gorbachev who allowed the Soviet Union to adopt the path of Perestroika. (I still suspect till this day Gorbachev was a mole planted by Ronald Reagan to break up Soviet Union.) America, the sole superpower, gloat in it’s invincibility and nobody could stop them. They started committing grave errors by spending too much time focussing on instigating regime changes all over the world, whichever Govt that is not aligned to American interest. They spent billions on wars and ignored their trillions of deficit. They didn’t care because the Japanese would fund them anyway, in the form of the worthless US Bonds. In a way they knew that Japan is forever indebted to them and won’t push them to repay. And then came the rise of China who was happy to share the burden of Japan. Still, America forgot they need to take care of their own backyard! While everyone else shot ahead with progress, economic development, poverty eradication, overhaul of infrastructure and civil service... America remain stuck in the 70s. And then they realised their very own American enterprises moved half their jobs to their new enemy China. Out of own will, China did not force them!

US is technically owned by Japan/China. US will never be able to redeem it’s Govt Bonds. It has to keep issuing new Bonds to replace maturing ones. It is technically bankrupt, eg. If Japan/China decided to stop subscribing to US Bonds.

And being the 野蛮 people as they are, instead of expressing gratitude, they abuse their lenders. Can you imagine you lend money to your bankrupt buddy and he still spew nonsense about you. Why do people condone such behavior?? China has its issues which you may not like, but heck, it’s their political system. If they are stupid like Gorbachev and adopt Perestroika like reforms, they will sure be the next Russia. So kudos to China for its wisdom. One will have to be wary of their growing dominance which could lead to bad behavior “one day” but hellooooooo.... US is already behaving like a gangster?

I don't need to reminisce about the greatness of America. It is most successful country of modern times - 75 years and counting - and will be for many, many years to come. The EU nations cannot muster the soft or hard power necessary to reenact a multipolar world, such as we had before WWII.

And no, the US is not "owned" by Japan/China, it is the other way around. If Japan/China did not buy US treasuries then their exports would collapse. Both do not have the natural resources that the #1 Americans have. They are wholly dependent on the USA and its dollar to survive.

And we in Singapore are mindful and thankful of America for security and freedoms they allow us Singaporeans to have. Thank god we have extended our defense agreement to 2035 - which really, really irritated China. PAP knows what it is doing here, siding with the winner of the world rather than the loser.

Speaking of debt we are very concerned with China. We think any regime that exceeds 300% debt to GDP is a ticking time bomb. We do not think the Chinese can ever repay their debts. Their youth are unemployed and cannot afford to transition the economy to household consumption. Their bat virus might just be the one thing that ends China - as Gordon Chang wrote in this book "The Coming Collapse of China" - its not looking good for China. Perhaps its time the people of China come to terms that communism is not working for them.

China is not your friend

 

[LaoTze]

If china and Japan don't buy those bonds, us will stop buying theur products.

https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-u...major-u-s-farm-products-sources-idUKKBN238264

JUNE 1, 2020 / 6:47 PM / UPDATED 2 HOURS AGO
China tells state firms to halt purchases of major U.S. farm products: sources



BEIJING/SINGAPORE (Reuters) - China has told state-owned firms to halt purchases of soybeans and pork from the United States, two people familiar with the matter said, after Washington said it would eliminate special treatment for Hong Kong to punish Beijing.

 

[Froggy]

Very interesting thread and entertaining as well.

 

[LordElrond]

I don't need to reminisce about the greatness of America. It is most successful country of modern times - 75 years and counting - and will be for many, many years to come. The EU nations cannot muster the soft or hard power necessary to reenact a multipolar world, such as we had before WWII.

And no, the US is not "owned" by Japan/China, it is the other way around. If Japan/China did not buy US treasuries then their exports would collapse. Both do not have the natural resources that the #1 Americans have. They are wholly dependent on the USA and its dollar to survive.

And we in Singapore are mindful and thankful of America for security and freedoms they allow us Singaporeans to have. Thank god we have extended our defense agreement to 2035 - which really, really irritated China. PAP knows what it is doing here, siding with the winner of the world rather than the loser.

Speaking of debt we are very concerned with China. We think any regime that exceeds 300% debt to GDP is a ticking time bomb. We do not think the Chinese can ever repay their debts. Their youth are unemployed and cannot afford to transition the economy to household consumption. Their bat virus might just be the one thing that ends China - as Gordon Chang wrote in this book "The Coming Collapse of China" - its not looking good for China. Perhaps its time the people of China come to terms that communism is not working for them.

China is not your friend

Love is blind - your love for US.
China has 20% of its exports going to the US. Not because the US love China, but the Americans themselves can’t compete! So if I lend you money to buy my products, at most I would call it mutual benefit. I would hardly say US own the bank. Where is your logic. Yes if US stop buying it will hurt China but who will be hurt more? The truth is American consumers, American business needs the Chinese supply. So you’re being delusional to think this is a situation with US at upper hand. Even Americans acknowledge the American Dream is long gone. You need to move on with times.

 

[tanahcow]

K.N.N.

Now, firstly, we see how their NatGuards handle unarmed civilians in their own garden before taking the war thousands of Kms away.

See if they K.N.S or not?

 

[tanahcow]

Maybe, me watch too much non-fiction movies, but seems war is Not generated by the politicians, butts, by the:

CIA,
&
weapons manufacturing industry.?

 

[LaoTze]

K.N.N.

Now, firstly, we see how their NatGuards handle unarmed civilians in their own garden before taking the war thousands of Kms away.

See if they K.N.S or not?

USA KENNA FUCKED AND WHACKED BY GOAT HERDERS

BESTEREST THAT USA GO HANDLE HER OWN UNARMED CIVILIANS IN THEIR OWN GARDEN

USA GET WHACKED LESS THEN

 

[tanahcow]

Very interesting thread and entertaining as well.

True.

You can read why Venezuela see them no-up when U killing time at Bangkok airport Vvip Lounge.