AGC and the Haze

[scroobal]

Thats the idea behind sanctions, punish them and or correct the behaviour. Why else would you apply sanctions.

Company shares will take a dive though.

 

[Rogue Trader]

Farmers might be out of sinkie jurisdiction but the companies listed on SGX are not.

Many western countries have imposed triple bottom line (3BL) reporting for listed companies. Besides profit, the company also has to report their social and environmental impact of their business. As the financial capital of Asean, corporate governance is the best way to solve the annual haze issue.

 

[Ash007]

Makes sense if the people giving the sanctions don't have any vested interest in the companies themselves.

Thats the idea behind sanctions, punish them and or correct the behaviour. Why else would you apply sanctions.

 

[cheekenpie]

Company shares will take a dive though.

Yup. Once a company cannot do business with a country (that it actually operates in), thats it!

 

[aurvandil]

At the root of it, it is corruption which is causing the haze problem.

http://ionsg.blogspot.sg/2013/06/transboundary-haze-pollution-corruption.html

The sanctions model to target individuals seems rather far fetched. Since we are thinking out of the box, here's my suggestion of how the PAP can do something powerful and practical to tackle the haze.

Assuming individuals have been identified, we should select 1 or 2 who are based in Singapore to be prosecuted under the PCA. In the process of the trail, Singapore can show the world the web of corruption that is leading to the haze problem. We can selectively name names of a few powerful political warlords who are on the take. As a start, let's go with the groups working with Coordinating Minister for People's Welfare Agung Laksono and Governor of Riau Rusli Zainal.

http://www.suaramerdeka.com/v1/inde...il-Agung-Laksono-untuk-Tersangka-Rusli-Zainal

If the evidence is solid, this will send a shockwave through Indonesia. it will bring the key players Sri Temasek with whom we can work with. The message to these players should be clear. If you work with us and keep the pollution at a tolerable level, we will keep your secrets and let you enjoy your billions. If you mess with us, we will expose you to the world and give your enemies all the political ammunition they need to destroy you.

We cannot win against the whole of Indonesia. We however have more than enough resources to destroy a few rich Indonesian families who made their billions robbing and destroying their country.

Our problem is that too many people associated with the political elite have their snout in the same trough and feeding voraciously from it.

Here is a simple example. Former MP and cabinet minister Lim Hwee Hua who got whacked black and blue in Aljunied has a husband called Andy. Andy runs a fund management company and within select list where foreigners if they place their funds in it for a certain amount are eligible for PR. You tell me if an Ah Tiong knows that his wife is a cabinet minister where will he place his funds. Its the same with Sentosa Cove where those who bought it are eligible for PR and the developer is a PAP CCC chairman.

Despite all the bullshit about white than white, all they got is a 49 year old lady giving a BJ to a civil servant. We have been fixing international football games for years and Ng Ser Miang wants to run for IOC chief. Might as well house foxes in hen houses.

 

[I_Hate_Pappies]

Singapore air force should fly some fighter jets across Indonesia to show it mean business. If not, buy all those expensive fighter jets for fuck?? To line the pocket with under-table commission is it?

National Day Parade.

 

[scroobal]

Except for the haze over Singaporeans, the rest occurred in Indonesia. You cannot use the local laws to prosecute something that occurred somewhere else. There a certain Singapore laws that apply for certain cases when it occurs overseas such as Narcotics trafficking , sex with a minor and even corruption but there are limitations. Even if there is solid evdience in form of clear video tape with parties agreeing to fire the land, the local courts do not have the jurisdiction to hear any of this.

The sanctions were introduced to overcome just that. As financial ill gotten gains flows thru Singapore for Indonesia, sanctions become effective. It would not apply for Bangladsh to apply sanctions as nobody in his right mind willnhoard money in Bangladesh or use it as a financial hub.

At the root of it, it is corruption which is causing the haze problem.

http://ionsg.blogspot.sg/2013/06/transboundary-haze-pollution-corruption.html

The sanctions model to target individuals seems rather far fetched. Since we are thinking out of the box, here's my suggestion of how the PAP can do something powerful and practical to tackle the haze.

Assuming individuals have been identified, we should select 1 or 2 who are based in Singapore to be prosecuted under the PCA. In the process of the trail, Singapore can show the world the web of corruption that is leading to the haze problem. We can selectively name names of a few powerful political warlords who are on the take. As a start, let's go with the groups working with Coordinating Minister for People's Welfare Agung Laksono and Governor of Riau Rusli Zainal.

.

 

[scroobal]

Yes, these are becoming effective. Large pension funds and western sovereign funds have a lot of financial muscle and clout and have forced companies to act responsibly.

Farmers might be out of sinkie jurisdiction but the companies listed on SGX are not.

Many western countries have imposed triple bottom line (3BL) reporting for listed companies. Besides profit, the company also has to report their social and environmental impact of their business. As the financial capital of Asean, corporate governance is the best way to solve the annual haze issue.

 

[scroobal]

And that is indeed the million dollar question. So far Cargill, Wilmar have npt been implicated but Sinar Mas has.

Makes sense if the people giving the sanctions don't have any vested interest in the companies themselves.

 

[aurvandil]

The following is from the CPIB FAQ:

If a Singaporean commits a corruption offence abroad, is he punishable under the Prevention of Corruption Act?

Singapore citizens are liable for punishment for corrupt offenses committed outside Singapore.


http://app.cpib.gov.sg/cpib_new/user/default.aspx?pgID=26

Agree that we cannot apply this to an Indonesian national who happens to be in Singapore. We can however apply the PCA to any Singapore citizen involved in the enterprise. Given the extent of the corruption happening in Riau, surely we will be able to find a Singaporean collaborator. In the process of prosecuting this Singaporean collaborator, we will naturally expose the corruption which is occurring.

As we have learnt from the NBG and PL case, the presumption of guilt in the PCA makes it very easy to secure convictions.

Once the Courts have returned a verdict, we can then turn our attention to the Indonesian national. If he/she is resident in Singapore, ICA can do a high profile cancellation of his/her residency permit citing the revelations in Court. These revelations would of course be reported extensively by our nation building MSM.

Politically, it is very competitive in Riau because of the concessions. If we provide the political ammunition, there is no shortage of ambitious political opponents who will use it to destroy their opponents. Referring to the url in my earlier post, Minister Agung Laksono and Governor Rusli Zainal were already under investigation in Indonesia for corruption prior to the haze.

The best part about playing this card is that the Indonesians do not have grounds to protest Singapore prosecuting a Singapore citizen for corruption. The subsequent cancellation of the residency permit of one or a few Indonesian nationals is also not a serious enough act to be regarded as a diplomatic incident.

Except for the haze over Singaporeans, the rest occurred in Indonesia. You cannot use the local laws to prosecute something that occurred somewhere else. There a certain Singapore laws that apply for certain cases when it occurs overseas such as Narcotics trafficking , sex with a minor and even corruption but there are limitations. Even if there is solid evdience in form of clear video tape with parties agreeing to fire the land, the local courts do not have the jurisdiction to hear any of this.

 

[scroobal]

Firstly I did mention that one can be prosecuted for corruption when it occurs overseas but there are limitations. There might not be corruption in the first place. The Singaporean might have told his workers to set the land alight. No corruption involved but a contravention of Indonesian post 1997 open burning laws. Only the Indonesians can prosecute.

The following is from the CPIB FAQ:

If a Singaporean commits a corruption offence abroad, is he punishable under the Prevention of Corruption Act?

Singapore citizens are liable for punishment for corrupt offenses committed outside Singapore.


http://app.cpib.gov.sg/cpib_new/user/default.aspx?pgID=26

Agree that we cannot apply this to an Indonesian national who happens to be in Singapore. We can however apply the PCA to any Singapore citizen involved in the enterprise. Given the extent of the corruption happening in Riau, surely we will be able to find a Singaporean collaborator. In the process of prosecuting this Singaporean collaborator, we will naturally expose the corruption which is occurring.

As we have learnt from the NBG and PL case, the presumption of guilt in the PCA makes it very easy to secure convictions.

Once the Courts have returned a verdict, we can then turn our attention to the Indonesian national. If he/she is resident in Singapore, ICA can do a high profile cancellation of his/her residency permit citing the revelations in Court. These revelations would of course be reported extensively by our nation building MSM.

Politically, it is very competitive in Riau because of the concessions. If we provide the political ammunition, there is no shortage of ambitious political opponents who will use it to destroy those we are targeting. Referring to the url in my earlier post, Minister Agung Laksono and Governor Rusli Zainal were already under investigation in Indonesia for corruption prior to the haze.

 

[aurvandil]

I was thinking more along the lines of a Singapore citizen who was involved in corruptly obtaining concessions. No need for the person to be involved in setting the fires. All that is needed is satellite images to show a large number of hotspots occurring in the concessions obtained through corruption. The Singaporean would be prosecuted for the corruption to obtain the concessions, not the fires. Along the way, I am sure our MSM media will find a way to break the story about the fires occurring on these corruptly obtained concessions.

Firstly I did mention that one can be prosecuted for corruption when it occurs overseas but there are limitations. There might not be corruption in the first place. The Singaporean might have told his workers to set the land alight. No corruption involved but a contravention of Indonesian post 1997 open burning laws. Only the Indonesians can prosecute.

 

[Rogue Trader]

Yes, these are becoming effective. Large pension funds and western sovereign funds have a lot of financial muscle and clout and have forced companies to act responsibly.

I am aware the california retirement fund body (Calpers) and some christian institution investor bodies to be well known for shareholders activism. It has the clout to look after the interests of its investors as well as the community.

Sadly the only body with such clout in singapore (temasek) does not have its interests aligned with the people...