Two Views of The PAP

[freedalas]

To you income redistribution means robbing the rich to pay the poor. None of us is saying that. Only yr perverted freaking fossilised retarded mind keeps blindsiding you.

It's really Econ 101. We need income redistribution policies so that income gaps will be kept manageable and politically and socially acceptable. Is it so hard to understand?

You shld read Sunday's paper Ho Kwon Ping's article and that of Paul Cheung of the IPS panel. What has happened is that in the past decades, the incomes of the rich and higher brackets have surged ahead whereas the lower income rungs have stagnated. This has led to the income inequality and wide gap. The reason is that while the rich have been able to pander to the highest bidder in this well-connected world of high finance, banking, commerce, the "wage revolution" did not occur to the lower income groups.

Additionally, their earning powers have been further depressed by the reckless immigration policies of bringing in millions of foreign cheap labour. The wage revolution was not completed because employers employed these cheap labour to grow their profits instaed of raising productivity. Had the employers been forced to raise producitivity, they would have employed people who could operate equipment and other productivity raising tools, workers who usually command a higher wage level. That way, then the lower income group's wages will rise to narrow the gap.

It is recognised now by this govt that this is possible. So why wasnt it implemented earlier? Is wealth stolen from the rich in this respect? So thru shrewd economic policies, the wheels of commerce and industry can be turned in a certain way, and in the end, everyone benefits.

Where, pray tell, is the notion of stolen wealth?

I'm totally with u kingrant and so are many forummers. The sad part of it all is that it's really quite pointless to engage with these PAP supporters who as is the case with their PAP masters broad brush any form of rendering help to the bottom rung of our society as WELFARISM and there would quote us all the ill effects of welfarism in UK, USA and other European countries. It's all too convenient an excuse to not want to part with a cent to go towards helping the lost, last and least. At other threads in this forum, many had already point out that they are not asking for an adoption of the WELFARISM as practised by these western countries. They do acknowledge the harm that such systems can do. What they are asking is that the govt must actively seek out those who really can't help themselves any more due to the circumstances beyond their control and look after them much better than they are doing now. These people are not those who laze around on the couch watching TV everyday and collect the dole at the end of the month. They do want to work but for some reason or another can't find work or simply can't work. Surely a govt that claimed to have the best in S'pore as they pay them top dollars can conceive of a way to distinguish these two groups and target their help at those who really need them. Surely there are ways to help these people without instituting the exact form of welfarism adopted elsewhere. Lily Neo had been asking these of the govt for many years now and it's a good sign that more MPs are joining her call.

 

[eatshitndie]

To you income redistribution means robbing the rich to pay the poor. None of us is saying that. Only yr perverted freaking fossilised retarded mind keeps blindsiding you.

..............

you're confused between me and sam. when did i ever say that? putting your own words into other's mouth again? i haven't even started the debate on income redistribution with you yet, twit.

here are my first opinions on income distribution and redistribution. redistribution of income can only be engineered by either a fascist regime with total control or a commie regime with authoritarian control. sg inc. is none of those two, thus income cannot be redistributed. end of story.

 

[eatshitndie]

what morons are confused with is that income redistribution is not the same as even income distribution. in utopia and nirvana where income is not a factor, you can enjoy fair distribution of happiness which is the currency of gods. even among gods, nothing is fair. fairness only exists in minds of those who qualify for imh. in the real world, what works is equitable income distribution. the bell curve dominates, even in the physical universe. it's just nature way of doing math. the super rich on one end of the curve will have massive incomes based on the power of capital and huge principals accumulated over time. the other end of the curve will have the forsaken poor who end up as homeless bums. in the middle will be ordinary folks. there is no magic about this. the bell curve does not represent income to capital but income relative to happiness. if you don't understand simple math, you're a moron.

 

[eatshitndie]

income redistribution is enacting policies and enforcement in place to forcibly move money from one to another. and it is not robbery which is illegal. it is institutional legalization of appropriation of private funds for public redistribution. only fascists and commies have done this in the past. fascists confiscate assets and properties of private owners thru' a compliant judicial and (re-)constitutional process, pool them in the regime or state coffers, and redistribute them to less endowed persons or parties friendly, important or critical to the regime in order to prop up their status or prestige. commies possess assets and properties of anyone, pool them in the state coffer, and redistribute their use to peasants, poor and working class with no hope of asset or property ownership. these lowlives don't get to own redistributed assets and properties. the state owns them. all these poor folks get are just dreams and imagination that they own them. we truly have a bunch of fascists and commies on sbf.

 

[kingrant]

Try not to get too emotional and start calling names. It shows badly on yr debating skills. You are full of hot air and going this way and that. Try recomposing not only yr grip of yrself but also of yr passages, and we can have a better argument.

Merely saying that you havent started on this or that is not a way to convince me you know anything.

Btw, that bit about fascist regimes engineering redistribution is talking thru yr arse. Name me which regime you talking abt.

you're confused between me and sam. when did i ever say that? putting your own words into other's mouth again? i haven't even started the debate on income redistribution with you yet, twit.

here are my first opinions on income distribution and redistribution. redistribution of income can only be engineered by either a fascist regime with total control or a commie regime with authoritarian control. sg inc. is none of those two, thus income cannot be redistributed. end of story.

 

[kingrant]

Another pc of crap.

The PAP govt acquired private lands and paid peanuts to landowners in order to "redistribute" the use of lands better. On some of these, were built rent-controlled HDB flats which no peasant got to own.

Does that make PAP a fascist regime by yr argument? And if they dont, what were they doing?

income redistribution is enacting policies and enforcement in place to forcibly move money from one to another. and it is not robbery which is illegal. it is institutional legalization of appropriation of private funds for public redistribution. only fascists and commies have done this in the past. fascists confiscate assets and properties of private owners thru' a compliant judicial and (re-)constitutional process, pool them in the regime or state coffers, and redistribute them to less endowed persons or parties friendly, important or critical to the regime in order to prop up their status or prestige. commies possess assets and properties of anyone, pool them in the state coffer, and redistribute their use to peasants, poor and working class with no hope of asset or property ownership. these lowlives don't get to own redistributed assets and properties. the state owns them. all these poor folks get are just dreams and imagination that they own them. we truly have a bunch of fascists and commies on sbf.

 

[eatshitndie]

Another pc of crap.

The PAP govt acquired private lands and paid peanuts to landowners in order to "redistribute" the use of lands better. On some of these, were built rent-controlled HDB flats which no peasant got to own.

Does that make PAP a fascist regime by yr argument? And if they dont, what were they doing?

acquisition of land by the gov happens in every country. in the u.s. it's called "eminent domain". if the piece of land serves the public better, for example freeway thru' a cluster of clusterfuck homes to connect two major freeways, the majority vote on such a measure will empower the gov to acquire those homes at market prices and raze the land for the freeway connector. the public gets the convenience and shares the public asset. the pap is a benign capitalist regime out to make your life better and open up opportunities for all to partake in. if 80% of the sg population own hdb flats, the appreciation of value of such flats for the past 30 to 40 years should make the majority wealthy beyond their dreams. they can't please 100% of the population, but if the majority are contented, they have done their job. that's not being fascist. that's being a socially responsible capitalistic regime.

 

[kingrant]

So there you are. You have agreed:

1. It's possible to have redistributive policies and schemes then,

2. and they need not be fascist regimes.

Thus, Singapore can and should continue to adopt such schemes to redistribute the collective wealth that is locked in our reserves and surpluses to benefit the lower strata. No need to accuse recipients of being lazy, workphobic and other names. This is what I have been saying. To you and Sam.

acquisition of land by the gov happens in every country. in the u.s. it's called "eminent domain". if the piece of land serves the public better, for example freeway thru' a cluster of clusterfuck homes to connect two major freeways, the majority vote on such a measure will empower the gov to acquire those homes at market prices and raze the land for the freeway connector. the public gets the convenience and shares the public asset. the pap is a benign capitalist regime out to make your life better and open up opportunities for all to partake in. if 80% of the sg population own hdb flats, the appreciation of value of such flats for the past 30 to 40 years should make the majority wealthy beyond their dreams. they can't please 100% of the population, but if the majority are contented, they have done their job. that's not being fascist. that's being a socially responsible capitalistic regime.

 

[eatshitndie]

So there you are. You have agreed:

1. It's possible to have redistributive policies and schemes then,

2. and they need not be fascist regimes.

Thus, Singapore can and should continue to adopt such schemes to redistribute the collective wealth that is locked in our reserves and surpluses to benefit the lower strata. No need to accuse recipients of being lazy, workphobic and other names. This is what I have been saying. To you and Sam.

it's done with infrastructure improvements in all countries. sg has gone a step further by improving the lives of everyone via easy access to low cost food, clean environment to curb diseases and make your low cost food more palatable, low cost transport, and low cost public housing. these taken-for-granted infrastructural investments for the general public are the wealth and income distribution you've been pining for. some guy could have made capital gains or rental income from his real estate, but instead the regime appropriated it for the greater good. so what are you complaining about? cash giveaways will only turn sg into a welfare state, not desirable for recipients and beneficiaries as dole-outs will only breed addiction. it is better to invest public money in schools, research facilities, science labs so kids and the next generation will have better skills and knowledge. and this is exactly what the pap gov has done in sg. they plan for the long term, and they practise equitable wealth and income distribution -- a much better capitalistic model than what we currently have in the u.s. which is pretentiously capitalistic but truly socialistic welfarism.

 

[lee6100]

There are two distinct views of the PAP:

1. Foreigners View - Favourable. They see

a. The modern infrastructure
b. They dont know Singapore well
c. They enjoy the conveniences
d. They see the "prosperity and affluence"
e. They like the lifestyle
f. The guys enjoy the openess and variety of Singapore gals
g. The guys see the beauty and enjoy the chio-ness of SG gals
h. The foreign workers enjoy the the "warmness" of the pap govt

2. Singaporeans' View - Unfavourable. They see

a. Failed SG systems
b. They suffer the stressful singaporean lifestyle
c. For the guys, NS for them, jobs for foreigners
d. High cost of living
e. Low quality of life
f. Work stress
g. High housing prices
h. High population density with its attendant problems
i. Huge influx of foreigners in a densely populated country
j. High and hidden taxes and levies
k. No accountability and transparency by the pap
l. Poor political leadership
m. PAP is self serving
n. PAP talking down to the people
o. Unfair and unjust practices
etc

p. ang mos always go unpunished for crimes they commit in this country. Truly double standards.

 

[TracyTan866]

因廟堂之上，朽木為官；殿陛之間，禽獸食祿。狼心狗行之輩，滾滾當朝；奴顏婢膝之徒，紛紛秉政



coming elections, PLEASE REMEMBER to

VOTE papees OUT


do yrself, yr forefathers and yr generations to come, a favor, a service and a long-awaited justice

hahahaha...true

 

[TracyTan866]

p. ang mos always go unpunished for crimes they commit in this country. Truly double standards.

the pap is appeasing foreigners at the expense of locals

 

[kingrant]

The first gen leaders did a good job to realise these infra improvements, but over the last 20 years, this seems to have taken a step back to other things - growth at all cost, import of cheap labour, housing shortage, etc.

The lower and even the middle incomes took the hardest hit - displacement in jobs by FTs, pay cuts, CPF cuts, depressed incomes, homes at runaway prices, price increases in food, electricity, transport...

All this while Ministers and civil servants were raising their pay, raising prices and making people pay market rates for everything..

Even in spite of groundswell, the govt remained blind and deaf to the people's woes. Look back and ask yrself could the PAP have done better to narrow the income gaps?

Now the govt recognises there are problems, and you cant argue them away by applying labels like welfarism, socialism, communism..nobody I know has asked for a dole or handout. That;s just a straw man.

it's infrastructure improvements in all countries. sg has gone a step further by improving the lives of everyone via easy access to low cost food, clean environment to curb diseases and make your low cost food more palatable, low cost transport, and low cost public housing. these taken-for-granted infrastructural investments for the general public are the wealth and income distribution you've been pining for. some guy could have made capital gains or rental income from his real estate, but instead the regime appropriated it for the greater good. so what are you complaining about? cash giveaways will only turn sg into a welfare state, not desirable for recipients and beneficiaries as dole-outs will only breed addiction. it is better to invest public money in schools, research facilities, science labs so kids and the next generation will have better skills and knowledge. and this is exactly what the pap gov has done in sg. they plan for the long term, and they practise equitable wealth and income distribution -- a much better capitalistic model than what we currently have in the u.s. which is pretentiously capitalistic but truly socialistic welfarism.