PAP Politicians are Different

[TracyTan866]

I could easily name a handful of NZ politicians who are just as evil as the worst the PAP has to offer.

Try naming them if you can

 

[Leongsam]

Try naming them if you can

Winston Peters, Rodney Hide, Helen Clarke, Taito Phillip Field, Donna Awatere Huata, David Garrett come to mind immediately.

Helen Clarke was a popular Prime Minister but behind the facade was a woman who was constantly trying to change election laws in her favour. The electorate saw through her scheme and she was booted out in the 2008 election after 3 terms in office.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10404114

Allow any politician to remain in office for too long and they'll begin to believe that they were born to rule.

 

[TracyTan866]

Winston Peters, Rodney Hide, Helen Clarke, Taito Phillip Field, Donna Awatere Huata, David Garrett come to mind immediately.

Helen Clarke was a popular Prime Minister but behind the facade was a woman who was constantly trying to change election laws in her favour. The electorate saw through her scheme and she was booted out in the 2008 election after 3 terms in office.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10404114

Allow any politician to remain in office for too long and they'll begin to believe that they were born to rule.

what did they do?

 

[Leongsam]

what did they do?

You have their names. Do your own research.

 

[TracyTan866]

You have their names. Do your own research.

nahhh...if u r convinced that they do wrong, justify. if not remain quiet

 

[Fook Seng]

There is one thing that PAP politicians have done that no first world ruling party has done and that is turning a two-third super-minority protection in the electoral system to something like 54% through the GRC system. This means that only if the minority is a large minority of 54%, almost rivaling the majority, will it not be completely steamrolled.

 

[Leongsam]

There is one thing that PAP politicians have done that no first world ruling party has done and that is turning a two-third super-minority protection in the electoral system to something like 54% through the GRC system. This means that only if the minority is a large minority of 54%, almost rivaling the majority, will it not be completely steamrolled.

That has nothing to do with GRCs. It's a feature of the first past the post system.

 

[freedalas]

The NZ govt would love to control the courts too but they can't because the citizenry would take to the streets in violent protest if they tried to. Just look what happened over an issue as minor as a Rugby game.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1981_South_Africa_rugby_union_tour_of_New_Zealand

I can assure you that there are very few politicians in this world who do not crave for absolute power. They have to kept in check by a system of separation of powers. This system has to be safeguarded by the citizens of the country. The politicians aren't going to the job. They're the ones who try to flout it whenever they can.

LKY could do what he did because he was allowed to. The blame ultimately lies with people of Singapore. Apathy is a politician's best friend. It allows them to literally get away with murder.

Still unconvincing. If we follow your logic and apply it to Hitler's mass execution of Jews in the Holocaust, then what u are effectively saying is that he was able to do so because the people allowed him to? And in most recent history, Assad of Syria massacred the protesters because the people said it was okay for him to do so? LKY could do such evil things not because he was allowed to by the people. He had over 5 decades manipulated with both the political and judiciary systems such that he can be free to do whatever he wants. And the people are powerless against that because LKY is cunning enough (with his wife's advising him) to have all angles covered. And don't go telling me the people allowed him to do all these because they voted him in. We all know how he had stifled and silenced existing and prospective oppositions and how he had been shifting the goal post with each GE by tinkering with election rules. Both Hitler and Saddam also came into power through a majority vote. You believed that they achieved that purely on their meritocracy?

 

[TracyTan866]

There is one thing that PAP politicians have done that no first world ruling party has done and that is turning a two-third super-minority protection in the electoral system to something like 54% through the GRC system. This means that only if the minority is a large minority of 54%, almost rivaling the majority, will it not be completely steamrolled.

That's true. It is achieved through gerrymandering.

No fair minded person respect such a manipulative political party. and this gerrymandering cause many Singaporeans to detest the pap. the pap may appear to have 60% votes but in reality, it has much less respect from the electorate.

I dont think there is any political ruling party which is more hated by its own citizens than the pap. That shd be cause for pap's self reflection

 

[Leongsam]

Still unconvincing. If we follow your logic and apply it to Hitler's mass execution of Jews in the Holocaust, then what u are effectively saying is that he was able to do so because the people allowed him to? And in most recent history, Assad of Syria massacred the protesters because the people said it was okay for him to do so?

People get the govts they deserve. Nazi Germany and the Middle East Dictatorships are no exception.

 

[TracyTan866]

People get the govts they deserve. Nazi Germany and the Middle East Dictatorships are no exception.

That's what you think. Who are you to tell the Iraqis they deserved Saddam, the Cambodians they deserved Pol Pot and the Ugandans they deserved Idi? have you been to the Killing Fields and seen the atrocities committed?

Can you be more gracious and kind to others who have suffered under dictators?

 

[freedalas]

People get the govts they deserve. Nazi Germany and the Middle East Dictatorships are no exception.

That's the sillest statement I ever heard (of course other than those from Lim Swee Say). Try telling that to the relatives of thousands and thousands that had been killed, tortured and imprisoned by dictator regimes all over the world.

 

[TracyTan866]

That's the sillest statement I ever heard (of course other than those from Lim Swee Say). Try telling that to the relatives of thousands and thousands that had been killed, tortured and imprisoned by dictator regimes all over the world.

I agree..It is sad that we have people like LeongSam spouting nonsense here..there were many who suffered under tyrants

 

[Ash007]

You should check your history. Hitler could order mass execution of the Jews only because the German people at that time supported and put him as Furher, Chancellor and leader of the Reich. They too, like you said, were, hoodwinked, manipulated for decades. His opponents, were not just politically assassinated, but killed outright. Check Night of the long knives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_long_knives
This is no different to what you said about manipulation on the Singapore population. If anything Hitler were more ruthless and cunning the LKY. At least the old man never resorted to pandering to the population and started blaming on the FTs and persecute them. He could have easily picked a race and start a genocide war in Singapore if he wants to.

Still unconvincing. If we follow your logic and apply it to Hitler's mass execution of Jews in the Holocaust, then what u are effectively saying is that he was able to do so because the people allowed him to? And in most recent history, Assad of Syria massacred the protesters because the people said it was okay for him to do so? LKY could do such evil things not because he was allowed to by the people. He had over 5 decades manipulated with both the political and judiciary systems such that he can be free to do whatever he wants. And the people are powerless against that because LKY is cunning enough (with his wife's advising him) to have all angles covered. And don't go telling me the people allowed him to do all these because they voted him in. We all know how he had stifled and silenced existing and prospective oppositions and how he had been shifting the goal post with each GE by tinkering with election rules. Both Hitler and Saddam also came into power through a majority vote. You believed that they achieved that purely on their meritocracy?

 

[zhihau]

That's the sillest statement I ever heard (of course other than those from Lim Swee Say)

it's true. folks deserve the type of government they voted for. look at Singapore in GE11, the incumbent got away with a mere 60% of the total valid votes. let's try imagining it was the opposition garnering over 50% of the valid votes :p:p:p
isn't this notion enticing

 

[steffychun]

Ugly Spouses--TPL's hubby quite a yandao.

 

[Fook Seng]

That has nothing to do with GRCs. It's a feature of the first past the post system.

GRC or First past the post in isolation will skew the results in favour of the majority winner but not to the same extent as a GRC cum FPTP system.

 

[freedalas]

You should check your history. Hitler could order mass execution of the Jews only because the German people at that time supported and put him as Furher, Chancellor and leader of the Reich. They too, like you said, were, hoodwinked, manipulated for decades. His opponents, were not just politically assassinated, but killed outright. Check Night of the long knives
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_of_the_long_knives
This is no different to what you said about manipulation on the Singapore population. If anything Hitler were more ruthless and cunning the LKY. At least the old man never resorted to pandering to the population and started blaming on the FTs and persecute them. He could have easily picked a race and start a genocide war in Singapore if he wants to.

Under a cruel and merciless dictator such as Hitler, the people had no choice but to support whatever he does else they will be the ones that be executed. In other words, it wasn't something that the people would wish Hitler to do. You need to learn to read history with some discernment, in particular, having regard to the circumstances at that time.

Anyway, u are missing my contention with Leongsam's statement that all politicians are the same and that some behave differently because the people allowed it. What I am asserting is that politicians of one country are indeed different from that of another, and what sort of regimes they put in place and their behavior are due to their respective set of values, conscience, ego, arrogance, pride, corruptability etc. I'm not comparing LKY with Hitler as to who is the more vicious and despicable.

 

[Conqueror]

He Is Still A Cunning Fox

Voters amnesia is a powerful weapon at politicians disposal.
How many people remember LKY's policies mistakes?

When LKY dies, there will be a GRAND STATE FUNERAL for his contribution on how he turned Singapore to $Chingapore Casino$.

Meritocracy is never an aspiration. No rape. Ask MP Tin Pei Ling.

I cannot believe that LKY does not know what is going on.

Only the stupid people do not question the authenticity of his 'contributions'. They take it as if it was a bible truth without questioning. He even wanna take credit for SIA's success. If he can lie, he will do it to scam the people for their votes. I think he has nothing to boast at the end of the day at his death bed. A naked emperor is all we know when he decided to take a chance to increase his and his son's salaries.


The iconic images and branding of the Singapore Girl was first established in 1968 during the era of Singapore Airlines' predecessor, Malaysia-Singapore Airlines (MSA), when the airlines of Malaysia and Singapore were still joined together in developing and expanding an intercontinental network. The "Sarong Kebaya" uniform was first introduced by MSA and worn by the flight stewardesses and was later developed to become the prominent symbol of Singapore Airlines' corporate image. The original branding was developed by Ian Batey.

Andersen's manuscript was at the printer’s when he was suddenly inspired to change the original climax of the tale from the emperor’s subjects admiring his invisible clothes to that of the child's cry. There are many theories about why he made this change. Most scholars agree that from his earliest years in Copenhagen, Andersen presented himself to the Danish bourgeoisie as the naively precocious child not usually admitted to the adult salon. "The Emperor’s New Clothes" became his expose of the hypocrisy and snobbery he found there when he finally gained admission.

Andersen’s decision to change the ending may have occurred after he read the manuscript tale to a child, or had its source in a childhood incident similar to that in the tale. In 1872, he recalled standing in a crowd with his mother waiting to see King Frederick VI. When the king made his appearance, Andersen cried out, "Oh, he’s nothing more than a human being!" His mother tried to silence him by crying, "Have you gone mad, child?" Whatever the reason, Andersen thought the change would prove more satirical.


I wrote in a forum regarding the exorbitant salaries as "The Emperor's New Clothes" some years ago.

 

[Conqueror]

Do You Know Why People Like The 70s And 80s ?

Could they have voted because of what they see from the 1st generation of PAP leaders?

I think there's quite a fair bit of reasons why a colleague of mine just loves the 80s than the 70s or even the 60s. He was borne in those years where he witnessed the SBC dramas made its debut and the first Mac Donald outlet was launched. Obviously, his mind was STUCK in the 80s and 90s. The pop music, the clothings and the toys, etc. So, the old folks were still living in this millenium years but their minds are still stuck in those black and white TV years. This is how they see themselves. This is how they also see PAP as well.

So, as you can see, there's nothing you can really do when they are still as stupid as before and their idol worship habits have not changed for the better or wiser. What can you do but to constantly bombarding them with your 'truth' that you find in the net to re-educate them and hopefully they will vote wisely for the next GE. Some of these are really STUBBORN folks.

Bad habits are harder to kick at this age. They will tell you that the axes are still better than chainsaws. That's why old folks are known for their stubbornness.