Yaw Shin Leong on real estate industry/agents

[Thick Face Black Heart]

[h=3]Lian He Zao Bao Interview - Informal Dialogues With Estate Agents[/h]
Below is the full email interview I did with Lian He Zao Bao on informal dialogues with Estate Agents.

ZB: Dear Mr Yaw, we saw in your blog post that you have some recommendations on the practices of agents in Singapore and hence hope to interview you on this.

Can we either do a phone interview or face to face interview with you these two days?

Thanks for your help on this!

YSL: Hello Shu Xian, I am currently out of town & will only be back on the 4th Jan 2011. My idea is to give these agents an organic platform to discuss/ brainstorm of ideas on ways how to further professionalize the industry. The work in progress recommendations placed in the blog/ FB are collective ideas from agents themselves. These are not finalized yet. Once finalized, the collated recommendations will be forwarded to the relevant stakeholders in the industry, to further refine/ improve upon the ideas/ recommendations raised etc. Likewise these would be made available online too.The spirit is one that encourages fellow Singaporeans to step forward to discuss about policy issues that affect us. Hope the above helps. If need to, we can do a Facetime etc. I will be happy to assist.

ZB: Dear Mr Yaw, Thanks for your prompt reply. I hope you can answer a few of my queries if possible. I don't need it by today so you don't have to rush. For the recommendations raised, do you share the same views as well? Or are the recommendations from agents only?

YSL: These work-in-progress recommendations raised thus far are fully raised by the agents themselves. I do not necessarily share the same views for each recommendation.


ZB: On the part that "The Council should not permit sellers, buyers, landlord and tenants to transact any property deals themselves", do you feel that is unfair to consumers who wish to conduct the deals themselves? Their main aim should be to save on the commission.

YSL: I strongly agree that it is important that, for consumers who wish to conduct property deals themselves; they must be able to continue to do so.

ZB: On another point, "The real estate agents must be compensated half of the deposit that is forfeited by the sellers and the landlords when deals are aborted", do you feel that this protects the interests of the agents at the expense of the consumers?

YSL: In fact this is a valid concern. In my opinion consumer rights must come first. Also at the same time, I have heard of negative experiences shared by the agents. In view of the delicate circumstances, it is good for the agents involved in this journey to collectively deliberate & brainstorm recommendations that are acceptable to consumers-at-large and themselves.


ZB: Why do you feel there's a need to stand up for this group of agents? Did they approach you for help?

YSL: It is not an issue of 'standing up' for this group of agents. Rather it is about 'providing a platform' for this group of agents to brainstorm of ways to improve & further professionalize their industry. The informal dialogue session idea originated during one of my house visits sessions, where an estate agent & Hougang resident shared with me about the plight of estate agents in Singapore. I offered to host an informal discussion for this resident and likeminded agents to better appreciate the situation & also to provide a platform for these estate agents to organically brainstorm ways to further professionalize their industry.


ZB: Do you feel that this review might be seen as a politically motivated move against the authorities?

YSL: I sincerely don't think so. As mentioned, the spirit behind this informal dialogue is one that encourages fellow Singaporeans (in this instance estate agents) to step forward & to discuss about policy issues, hence ideas/ recommendations to improve the industry. Collectively, with a candid intention, robust debates, reasonable compromises and prudent discourses, I am highly positive that our Singapore society can only emerge stronger.
Posted by Yaw Shin Leong at <a class="timestamp-link" href="http://yawshinleong.blogspot.com/2012/01/lian-he-zao-bao-interview-informal.html" rel="bookmark" title="permanent link"><abbr class="published" title="2012-01-06T13:47:00+08:00">1:47 PM</abbr> 0 comments Links to this post
Labels: Responses


[h=2]Thursday, January 05, 2012[/h] [h=3]Shin Min Daily Interview - Informal Dialogues With Estate Agents[/h]
Below is the full email interview I did with Shin Min Daily on informal dialogues with Estate Agents.

SM: Dear Shin Leong, sorry to trouble you when you are on a holiday.

YSL: It is ok

SM: This is a blog entry I saw that had some comments on your post:
http://unbrandedbreadnbutter.wordpress.com/2011/12/27/yaw-shin-leong-who-is-he-representing/ below are my questions: There are a number of negative comments against you, as reflected in the post. Do you think that by associating with the group of agents, others think that you are endorsing all their proposals which some may not be yours. What do you have to say? What do you think of this episode, as in you are just trying to help by providing a platform for the agents, but being "pointed fingers at" by Netizens.

YSL: I really think that it is okay. Freedom of expression/ speech must be upheld. It is a good thing that a mini-public discourse resulted from my informal dialogues with our estate agents. In this way, our estate agents would then be able to bear in mind the issues at hand & public sentiments as they formulate their recommendations to further professionalize their industry. I see an emergence of active citizenry & actually I am quite happy about it

SM: I quote the below from the blog "NOW Mr Yaw and his group of real estate agents is proposing that the CEA ban individual seller and buyer from any property transaction. .... this is the most ridiculous of suggestions, it is anti-consumer and gives an unfair unending meal ticket to real estate agents. 2. what are the proposals that you do not share the same view with the agent? in such a case, do they incorporate your ideas or you will merely facilitate and the views are all up to the agents?

YSL: All the views/ recommendations are up to the agents. As the estate agents have yet to put together the finalized version of their recommendations, meaning it is still work in progress. As it is important that agents themselves must steer the discussions/ recommendations, I did not contribute to the recommendations raised thus far. However I have made my objection known to the agents' proposal disussion group that consumers' right to sell/ purchase their own flats must be upheld.

SM: Some people take issue with the one off license as well, what is your take on this? the blogger mentioned that if the CEA license fee is only one-time payment then the long-term budget of the CEA would be borne by taxpayers.

YSL: Which regulatory body's body isn't borne by taxpayers? Why CEA should be excluded?

SM: The blogger suggested that the dialogue could be kept out of blogosphere and addressing it directly with the relevant interested parties together with perhaps the Institute of Estate Agents, a professional body of real estate agents. how do you view the suggestion?

YSL: It is a most ironic suggestion, had the spirit of this suggestion being upheld in the first place, we won't be even discussing this here

SM: So far, are there other groups that you have helped to facilitate discussions? what was achieved? and going forward, how to you see yourself helping other groups other than the property agents?

YSL: Yes, (do check out the different groups I held informal discussions with from my blog). The spirit is one of encouraging fellow Singaporeans to step forward to discuss policies & issues that affect us. If possible, Singaporeans should organically organize ourselves and to come up with ideas/ recommendations to better our society. Collectively when ideas/ discussions & recommendations are made organically, we see active citizenry in motion, when more of such active citizenry take place, stake ownership in our country deepens, and the fibric of our nation can only become stronger. Yes, I will continue to play a role in this meaningful nation building process
Posted by Yaw Shin Leong at <a class="timestamp-link" href="http://yawshinleong.blogspot.com/2012/01/shin-min-daily-interview-informal.html" rel="bookmark" title="permanent link"><abbr class="published" title="2012-01-05T13:20:00+08:00">1:20 PM</abbr> 0 comments Links to this post
Labels: Responses

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

YSL's proposals:

1. "The Council should not permit sellers, buyers, landlord and tenants to transact any property deals themselves"

2. "The real estate agents must be compensated half of the deposit that is forfeited by the sellers and the landlords when deals are aborted"

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Unbranded Bread n Butter

Yaw Shin Leong: Who is he representing?


Posted on December 27, 2011 | 15 Comments


The party that takes on the cause of the workers and stands against the hegemonic might of the MIW is somehow getting its priorities wrong; or at least one of its MP. Workers’ Party’s Yaw Shin Leong has put up on his blog a series of informal dialogues which he is leading with a group of about 30 real estate agents who are unhappy with the Council for Estate Agencies (CEA).





The CEA was established in Oct 2010 to regulate the real estate industry (especially rogue real estate agents) and protect the consumer from unfair business practices as property transactions are often very expensive and can be complicated. Before the CEA, there was no licensing of real estate agents and the industry had very low barriers of entry leading to many agents who are not only uncommitted to their trade but also devised various means to extract unfair commission and fees from unsuspecting consumers, property owners and even banks.

I bought my first house, a re-sale HDB directly from a seller and we did not engage any agents on both sides. It was pretty neat and clean as we decided on an agreeable price rather quickly although we have not met previously. HDB assisted in us completing the transaction and while it was complicated at first, it was not rocket science, you just needed some effort. Most of all, it saved buyer and seller a combined agent commission fees of $10K on a $350K apartment that is leasehold in the first place!

NOW Mr Yaw and his group of real estate agents is proposing that the CEA ban individual seller and buyer from any property transaction.

On Yaw’s blog: The Council should not permit sellers, buyers, landlord and tenants to transact any property deals themselves, as they are not trained; they do not attend classes; they do not sit the examinations such as Common Examination for Housing Agents(CEHA), Common Examination for Salespersons(CES) etc, and they are not registered with the Council. Therefore, the seller, buyers, landlord and tenants are not licenced to transact any deal with regards to property transactions. If a seller who is not licenced, sells his property to a buyer, essentially, the buyer is not protected, he is not being served by a licence agent.

​

IMHO, this is the most ridiculous of suggestions, it is anti-consumer and gives an unfair unending meal ticket to real estate agents.

If seller and buyer are known to one another, relatives etc, they can just settle the deal at HDB or engage a conveyance lawyer in the case of a private property. Buyers, like me, who approached the seller directly can currently settle the transactions ourselves. If the seller is hard on cash, such a rule would force him to part with more cash and worsen his financial position. Why should a fee be paid to the property agent when he/she had made no introductory at all?? This also increases the cost of business as the property agent would get a cut of every rental property deals. Ultimately, such a suggestion is most damaging to consumer interest, dampens business environment, and basically creates a monopoly for very very small segment of interested persons.

Another ridiculous suggestion found in Mr Yaw’s blog states that real estate agent must be compensated half of the deposit forfeited by the seller if the deal is aborted. Currently, compensation to agents for aborted deals are non-obligatory.

On Yaw’s blog: As stated in Form 1-Estate Agency Agreement for the Sale of Residential Property and Form 3-Estate Agency Agreement for the Lease of Residential Property by a Landlord. Sellers and landlords are not obligated to pay commission to the real estate agents if the sale and the leasing of the property fall through. The real estate agents must be compensated half of the deposit that is forfeited by the sellers and the landlords when deals are aborted, as the real estate agents have successfully secured the deals, and cost spent in marketing the property.

​

The question of compensation should be a private arrangement open for negotiation between interested parties. If the agent did not perform his role adequately and cause the deal to fall through, why should he/she be compensated half the deposit?? The agent should stipulate in his contract with the seller that any marketing costs should be borne by the seller if the deal does not eventually succeed. Stipulating that real estate agents must be compensated half the deposit of any fallen through deal again grants them an unfair meal ticket.

Mr Yaw together with his group of real estate agents also proposed that the annual license fee for real estate agents imposed by the CEA be amended to a one-off payment.

On Yaw’s blog: The Council imposes an annual licence fee of $246.10 including GST should be amended to a one-off license fee, as agents are paying fees for courses, examination as well as the yearly Continuing Professional Development (CPD). The fees of these courses, examination and CPD amount to more than $500. Currently, if a new agent obtains the relevant certification, say in October 2011, upon registration with CEA, he has to fulfill the full amount of $246.10 for the entire year of 2011. Come January 2012, which is just 3 months after his registration on October 2011, the same agent has to fulfill another payment of $246.10 for the entire 2012. The new agent should only make a full payment of $246.10 as a one-off licence fee regardless the date of registration.

​

Next thing we know, Yaw would be joining pubs, karaoke and coffeeshops owners asking the government to make their entertainment and liquor licenses one-time payment also. This is part of their business costs and real estate agents should acknowledge it. Real estate agents should bear part of the costs of licensing, enforcement and administration of CEA as they are the ones that benefit from a well-regulated industry. If the CEA license fee is only one-time payment then the long-term buget of the CEA would be borne by taxpayers!!

Is Mr Yaw telling us that real estate agents who earned ten of thousands a year cannot afford a few hundred in licensing fees. If these real estate agents don’t earn a decent salary annually then perhaps they can consider changing jobs. The government can consider waiving the annual license fee if the economy is really bad and there is a drastic drop in volume of property transacted.

There are many other points worth countering in Mr Yaw’s suggestions but I won’t do them here (maybe he would be write to me if he is interested…haha). Is Mr Yaw still in the GE mode where he is opposing zheng hu for the sake of opposing?? Consumers now have more protection with the CEA established as it provides a platform for aggrieved consumers to lodge a complain, meditations to be carried out and rogue real estate agents turfed out. Workers’ Party and Mr Yaw should concentrate on fighting for everyday Singaporeans and the interest of normal consumers rather than the 30-odd real estate agents. And maybe one way of really helping the 30-odd real estate agents would be keeping the dialogue out of blogosphere and addressing it directly with the relevant interested parties together with perhaps the Institute of Estate Agents, a professional body of real estate agents. 30-odd agents out of the tens of thousands in Singapore is really a tiny tiny dot in the little red dot.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

I engage a financial adviser to help me in my insurance and investment plans.

However I later find out he is a fucking retard who does not have good character, who behaves in a shady way, who lies to me constantly.

As such, I decide not to purchase any plans from him.

However, MAS rules dictate that since I had already previously received advice from him, I must pay him 50% of the commission that he would have gotten had I purchased the product from him.

In essence that is what YSL is suggesting for the real estate industry and for real estate agents -- if the deal does not go through, 50% commission penalty.

 

[I_Hate_Pappies]

I engage a financial adviser to help me in my insurance and investment plans.

However I later find out he is a fucking retard who does not have good character, who behaves in a shady way, who lies to me constantly.

As such, I decide not to purchase any plans from him.

You don't pay insurance agent commissions, please don't mislead.

However, MAS rules dictate that since I had already previously received advice from him, I must pay him 50% of the commission that he would have gotten had I purchased the product from him.

In essence that is what YSL is suggesting for the real estate industry and for real estate agents -- if the deal does not go through, 50% commission penalty.

Why do you have to pay commission to the insurance agent if you did not take up any policy from him/her? Even if you did took up a policy from him/her, you do not pay him/her commission directly. Please elaborate, if not you are just misleading here or simply khong jiao wei.
50% commission from the deposit are payable to the real estate agent only through no fault of his/her when his/her job has been done.
Should the fault of the aborted sales/rental is due to his/her fault, he/she is liable for the damages caused in the process to either seller/landlord or buyer/tenant and in some cases, both.
Assholes are everywhere, not just in a particular line or field. You may just be ne of them who made losses through some investment instrument, after that kpkb.

 

[scroobal]

The issue is not whether the consumer can or cannot conduct his own property transaction. No sane individual will consider this or take seriously. We are not talking about conveyancing which requires education and training as its intention is secure a clean title on the property.

The issue is YSL unable to understand the following;

1. Who he has to represent - his constituents, his fellow Singaporeans

2. What he has to represent - a cause that impinges on the fundamental rights of all individuals etc

3. How to make representation to build and retain network, important contact etc. - overtly or covertly

He failed all 3. Firstly real estates agents do not fall under this remit, secondly the cause is against the tide of reason and thirdly as the first 2 factors are not, he should do this covertly. But this idiot does it on a blog. The way the reporter has phrased the question is a red flag. And his not consistent with his answers.

When GCT was PM, he censured his own PAP MP who was also the head of REDA for pushing their agenda in public and in Parliament. A set of guidelines was then drawn-up.

Now you known why insurance agents, financial planners and property agents like to join new age church groups and help out during elections.

 

[Unrepented]

That day some forummer posted the link to his blog on the article. The below comments was under the "Current practise" heading, that's why I asked if this is indeed current

Also, did not see any clarification or warranty that he has disagreements with all those that was posted. That's why forummers posted the thread and raised the issue. Anyone still have a screenshot of that

Now make U turn sibo

..................
NOW Mr Yaw and his group of real estate agents is proposing that the CEA ban individual seller and buyer from any property transaction.

On Yaw’s blog: The Council should not permit sellers, buyers, landlord and tenants to transact any property deals themselves, as they are not trained; they do not attend classes; they do not sit the examinations such as Common Examination for Housing Agents(CEHA), Common Examination for Salespersons(CES) etc, and they are not registered with the Council. Therefore, the seller, buyers, landlord and tenants are not licenced to transact any deal with regards to property transactions. If a seller who is not licenced, sells his property to a buyer, essentially, the buyer is not protected, he is not being served by a licence agent.

............​

​

 

[Unrepented]

Uncle ram, you are one of the cooks izit

YSL's proposals:

1. "The Council should not permit sellers, buyers, landlord and tenants to transact any property deals themselves"

2. "The real estate agents must be compensated half of the deposit that is forfeited by the sellers and the landlords when deals are aborted"

 

[scroobal]

Ramseth is street smart and brainy compared to YSL. He would know how to handle this better. YSL has always struggled with grasping basic principles. If you asked him what is the most important thing in a car, he will tell you its the steering wheel and not the engine. Thats because in his view its the closest thing and as he touches it constantly.

 

[Thick Face Black Heart]

Ramseth is street smart and brainy compared to YSL. He would know how to handle this better. YSL has always struggled with grasping basic principles. If you asked him what is the most important thing in a car, he will tell you its the steering wheel and not the engine. Thats because in his view its the closest thing and as he touches it constantly.

I agree. Ram for all his bravado and online makeup fetish would not have allowed himself to be quoted in such a manner, whether online or in the newspapers. YSL is trying too hard to please everyone who approaches him. But take that too far and people will see you as pandering to special interest groups.

 

[scroobal]

Frankly Ram can contribute by advising this chap. This is the second big foot-in-the mouth incident with the gear not engaged. If he was with NSP, SDP or even with PAP, he would not see the Parliament at all. He is riding on WP and LTK coat tails. At least have some cow sense to check with others.