Crumbling of Singapore?

[scroobal]

I am well aware that you are yanking their chains.

But the statement below is absolutely ludicrous. Govt central role is not to build a nice road so you can go cycling but to advance society, look after the needy and the less fortunate. Many of whom might have been contributing to the country while they were fit and able.

Let take your argument one step further and why not get NGOs to build roads, schools and hospitals. By your logic, I am sure they can "target" "where it is needed most".

You sit pretty in a country where there is comprehensive safety net and give advice to those sitting in country where there is none. Singaporeans who are less fortunate and less able have to lose their dignity, sell their assets first before pittance is offered as help while Singapore leaders, their propaganda machinery and their sycophants earn remunerations that are many times more than their counterparts in most developed countries. Quite rich don't you think.

Care for the weakest in society is best left to NGOs. Concerned citizens with the resources to help can then work through these organisations to target assistance where it is needed most.

 

[Leongsam]

I am well aware that you are yanking their chains.

But the statement below is absolutely ludicrous. Govt central role is not to build a nice road so you can go cycling but to advance society, look after the needy and the less fortunate. Many of whom might have been contributing to the country while they were fit and able.

Let take your argument one step further and why not get NGOs to build roads, schools and hospitals. By your logic, I am sure they can "target" "where it is needed most".

Lets' take the "vote buying" exercise as an example. It's mentioned that money is given to those who don't need it. Well there's nothing stopping those who don't need it passing the money to those that do.

Singaporeans who care so much about the old ladies who are forced to clean tables can easily "adopt" one and help ease their hardship by providing both financial and emotional assistance in their golden years. There are more than enough successful Singaporeans around to help every single needy person who is facing hard times. Look what just a handful did for some foreign national who contributed zilch to the development of Singapore.

http://forums.vr-zone.com/chit-chat...g-naas-mother-now-lives-4-storey-mansion.html

Huang Na’s mother now lives in 4 storey MANSION

Remember Huang Shu Ying, the mother of Huang Na who was murdered 4 years ago? Singaporeans donated more than S$120,000 to her family out of sympathy. Well, it appears that her mother has put the money to good use:

Surely they can do the same for those who built the country into what it is today. There is no need for the govt to be involved.

 

[Leongsam]

I am disappointed by Mr Leongsam actually. I thought it would be 100%. Perhaps he's too embarrassed to say so and hope at least less by 1%, forummers here will give him "chance".

The 1% I don't agree with are his language policies. People should be left to speak whatever they choose. The government shouldn't get involved. Market forces can sort things out.

Language is like computer code. It moves with the times. Nobody programs with Cobol anymore and nobody outside of the Vatican bothers to learn Latin. People learn languages based on need. If Mandarin is necessary to survive and prosper, people will learn the language as a matter of course.

In HK, prior to 97, nobody spoke Mandarin. It wasn't necessary. Today it's a different story.

 

[Fook Seng]

I disagree. Welfare is a slippery slope from which there is no return. While the intentions of welfare are noble, all it does to a nation in the long term is destroy the work ethic.

The money may be there but to dish it out willy-nilly to those who have fallen off the treadmill will leave those who are running very fast in order to stay ahead to ask themselves "Why should I bother?" I'll just fall off too and I'll be taken care of.". Before you know it, a considerable proportion of of the population will have gone soft.
Care for the weakest in society is best left to NGOs.

One of the hallmarks of the PAP philosophy is to view things in black and white. When they wanted to control the population growth they actually put it in reverse gear with Stop at 2. It caused an irreversible change that even tax incentives to increase family size with a third or a fourth child could not arrest the trend and they have to bring in the FT. When they did that, it was done in extreme proportions with the population increasing from 3 to 5 million in just around 10 years, causing all the infrastructural problems we have today.

The language policy was another example that things were done in an extreme way. First the second languages were destroyed by removing all non-English stream schools. That generation produced a population, except for a small percentage with innate ability, largely monolingual. It took a 180 degree change to a system at the other end of the spectrum that evaluate you on your second language achievement for tertiary education.

Welfare is the other extreme where they do not want to do anything. They are so many instances where it is so clearcut that aid is necessary, even MPs and Ministers think so, but there is nothing in system you can do about. If there is any government that can control welfare from going down the slippery slope, the PAP can but please view things in a less black and white way.

Why does PAP operate in this way? Why have the GRC system which screams you are either with me or you are not? Maybe it is the top down approach to decision making within their ranks. How much contribution do law-makers have in the decision making except to endorse policies that have already been decided?

When the govt decided on a privatization strategy, every ministry and govt department suddenly became the Ministry of Finance all with the KPI of making money. The end result is for all to see. LKY talked a lot about Confucian teaching and Asian values. On the Asian way of moderation how strong an adopter is he? As an Asian in fundamental thinking, he is anything but.

 

[scroobal]

Huang Na's story is a classic example of why the govt has to play the role of a referee. The same thing would not have happened in a first world country as the State would have stepped in.

Instead we had a known con man Roland doing his usual scam. Till today, he did not reveal how much was collected. If it was the govt, they would have given a running tally and people would have stopped if it went too high.

Notice Roland jumped again at the chance of helping the PRC prostitute who drowned in the Sentosa pool. In developed countries, donation are given to pay for expensive surgery not covered by the state. I have yet to hear one story wher money was given for someone who died. That is how dumb we are.
You scold a Singaporean for being dumb and he will complain that we are talking down to him. And it is the PAP that made Singaporeans scared of themselves.

Lets' take the "vote buying" exercise as an example. It's mentioned that money is given to those who don't need it. Well there's nothing stopping those who don't need it passing the money to those that do. Singaporeans who care so much about the old ladies who are forced to clean tables can easily "adopt" one and help ease their hardship by providing both financial and emotional assistance in their golden years.

There are more than enough successful Singaporeans around to help every single needy person who is facing hard times. Look what just a handful did for some foreign national who contributed zilch to the development of Singapore. Surely they can do the same for those who built the country into what it is today. There is no need for the govt to be involved.

 

[Leongsam]

Instead we had a known con man Roland doing his usual scam. Till today, he did not reveal how much was collected. If it was the govt, they would have given a running tally and people would have stopped if it went too high.

People who are willing to part with their money have to go in with their eyes open. There are many established aid agencies that are a big rip-off too. Do the research before opening your wallet.

The biggest con artists in the world are still governments themselves. Whatever "Roland" does, the government can do it better.

 

[Leongsam]

One of the hallmarks of the PAP philosophy is to view things in black and white. When they wanted to control the population growth they actually put it in reverse gear with Stop at 2. It caused an irreversible change that even tax incentives to increase family size with a third or a fourth child could not arrest the trend and they have to bring in the FT.

The only reason why they had to bring in non muslim foreigners is because while the 80% of the population stopped at 2, the Malays carried on with their merry ways. Had the trend continued, Muslims would outnumber the non muslims today. It doesn't take a mathematician to work this out. Anyone can do it on a hand held calculator.

Had LKY succeeded in getting all the ethnic groups to operate at replacement levels and no higher, the FT policy could have been implemented in a much more selective manner.

 

[TracyTan866]

if he really want singapore to prosper, his bed partner would not have control TH at all.

Cronyism clouds judgement. Have you not learnt that from the many decisions made by the pap:

1. HC - CEO, TH
2. Ivy Ng promoted to CEO, SingHealth
3. Grace Fu, daughter of James Fu
4. Arthur Fong, son of Fong SC
5. Ho Geok Choo, daughter of Ho SB
6. Lee Hsien Yang, ex CEO. Singtel, Chariman of F&N
7. etc

Are these people up there based on merit or based on connection?

So LHL may want SG to prosper, but his judgement was clouded because of cronyism

 

[TracyTan866]

The dwindling of population is a myth. There are many ways to reverse TFR and even if we need FT, we need a much smaller number than right now. .

Good point. Growing the population by importing foreigners is a short time measure which brings with it social problems.

A more effective way to increase TFR is to know the root cause of why Singaporeans are not producing babies or do not want to have babies and to rectify the root cause.

 

[TracyTan866]

The forummers here on the other hand is patriotic and love S'pore. And that's why they are posting so impassionedly about the slippery road the PAP is leading S'pore down. And that's why they are highlighting thr PAP mistakes in the hope that more S'poreans could see the light and continue to give the PAP their mandate blindly.

Yes, I am posting this thread because I dont want to see SG crumble due to mismanagement by the pap. Loving SG doesnt mean that we have to love pap. if we see hazards ahead because of pap policies, we must speak out against such policies.

Singaporeans must know that criticising PAP is not being disloyal to SG nor not loving SG.

We have been brainwashed by pap for too long. PAP is not SG.

SG will not crumble if the pap loses power.

SG will crumble if the pap holds on to power but works to the detriment of SG and Singaporeans.

The important question to ask is: "Is pap working for the well being and good of Singapore and Singaporeans?"

 

[TracyTan866]

Oh! just in case u are confused over the two, being patriotic and loving S'pore is not the same as pledging allegiance to the PAP. The PAP would love to have that confused, so being against them means being against S'pore. It's on the contrary if u still don't follow - if u are patriotic and love S'pore, we have to do something to stop the PAP from causing more sufferings.

Many Singaporeans love SG and are patriotic to SG. But we must differentiate SG from the PAP. LKY has been brainwashing Singaporeans that pap is SG, NTUC is PAP, People's Association is PAP, etc. We must debunk all these.

1. SG is associated with Singaporeans, not foreigners
2. PAP, WP, SDP, NSP, SPP, SF, etc are all political parties in SG..no more , no less!
3. NTUC is associated with SG workers, not PAP
4. People's Association is associated with SG citizens, not PAP. So, based on (2), PA must treat all political parties equally.
5. GIC, TH are working for Singapore and Singaporeans, not pap.
6. SG's President represents SG and Singaporeans and not the PAP.

If pap mismanages, all political parties, NTUC, PA, SG President must speak out because they are all associated with SG. But is this happening in SG?

 

[TracyTan866]

I am disappointed by Mr Leongsam actually. I thought it would be 100%. Perhaps he's too embarrassed to say so and hope at least less by 1%, forummers here will give him "chance".

The more you get to know Sam, the more you realise how ignorant, egoistic and stubborn he is

 

[TracyTan866]

I don't think you even need to dip into the reserves to render a little help to those who fall off the treadmill. That money is there, collected through taxes, GST, ERPs etc but used to buy votes in form Economic Growth packages. Everyone gets it whether he asks for it or not. Some people don't even know what to do with the money.

I agree..the govt has many sources of revenue. Taking care of Singaporeans who falls from the treadmill must be the responsibility of the SG govt. A good govt will not relinguish, abdicate or farm out that responsibility.

 

[TracyTan866]

I know what you mean and I agree. But unfortunately the Old Man doesn't see it this way. To him, spending from taxes collection is equivalent to spending the reserves as it would be lesser contributions from taxes collection to the reserves. That's how obsessed he is with the reserves. In fact, some said it's not obsessed but that the Old Man is possesed by demon of reserves.

It's sad that we always blame LKY.... If the present pap leadership sees it fit to do what LKY said, whose fault is it?

 

[Fook Seng]

1. SG is associated with Singaporeans, not foreigners
2. PAP, WP, SDP, NSP, SPP, SF, etc are all political parties in SG..no more , no less!
3. NTUC is associated with SG workers, not PAP
4. People's Association is associated with SG citizens, not PAP. So, based on (2), PA must treat all political parties equally.
5. GIC, TH are working for Singapore and Singaporeans, not pap.
6. SG's President represents SG and Singaporeans and not the PAP.

As it should be, of course.

 

[TracyTan866]

As it should be, of course.

yes..but it is sad that the pap managed to usurp all these from singaporeans and run them like their like kingdoms.

I blame what is happening on Singaporeans' ignorance in general. but I blame SRN, TT, LSS, YAM in particular for working for the pap instead of SG and Singaporeans ...they have no b.lls to do what's right

 

[Fook Seng]

Cronyism clouds judgement. Have you not learnt that from the many decisions made by the pap:

Are these people up there based on merit or based on connection?

So LHL may want SG to prosper, but his judgement was clouded because of cronyism

In this the PM is like the average man in the street. He only knows who he knows personally and dares not take the risk of trusting people he does not know. No wonder, they find Singapore so short of talent.

 

[TracyTan866]

Many Singaporeans love SG and are patriotic to SG. But we must differentiate SG from the PAP. LKY has been brainwashing Singaporeans that pap is SG, NTUC is PAP, People's Association is PAP, etc. We must debunk all these.

1. SG is associated with Singaporeans, not foreigners
2. PAP, WP, SDP, NSP, SPP, SF, etc are all political parties in SG..no more , no less!
3. NTUC is associated with SG workers, not PAP
4. People's Association is associated with SG citizens, not PAP. So, based on (2), PA must treat all political parties equally.
5. GIC, TH are working for Singapore and Singaporeans, not pap.
6. SG's President represents SG and Singaporeans and not the PAP.

If pap mismanages, all political parties, NTUC, PA, SG President must speak out because they are all associated with SG. But is this happening in SG?

Until Singaporeans take back the above key SG Institutions and the Judiciary, SAF, Police, from the PAP , SG will never be able to rise up to its full potential.

Many people laud the achievements of LKY.. but they missed the damage lky has done to SG..

What are seen are the obvious infrastructure which Sam so proudly showed...but what are more damaging are the imperceptibles like the control and manipulations of key institutions.

The obvious will come and go...but the imperceptibles are the ones that will help us rise to greater heights

 

[Leongsam]

Until Singaporeans take back the above key SG Institutions and the Judiciary, SAF, Police, from the PAP , SG will never be able to rise up to its full potential.

Many people laud the achievements of LKY.. but they missed the damage lky has done to SG..

What are seen are the obvious infrastructure which Sam so proudly showed...but what are more damaging are the imperceptibles like the control and manipulations of key institutions.

The obvious will come and go...but the imperceptibles are the ones that will help us rise to greater heights

You lost of track of which account you were logged on with and ended up replying to yourself! Clone accounts have to be carefully managed or you'll make a booboo sooner or later. It happened in the good old days of scs and it's still happening 16 years later.

 

[TracyTan866]

In this the PM is like the average man in the street. He only knows who he knows personally and dares not take the risk of trusting people he does not know. No wonder, they find Singapore so short of talent.

The right way is that the PM must rely on an institutionalised system, not his own knowledge, to pick the right person for the job.