60% of registered doctors in 2010 are foreigners!

[singveld]

My position is clear. No job should be open to foreigners that easily, including jobs like cleaners, rubbish collectors, construction workers where Sinkies are said to shun. The problem of why Sinkies do not want these jobs must be addressed rather than simply importing foreigners for them. The basic underlying reason is that these jobs pay too little and the working conditions are taxing. In a place like Sinkandpoor, other Sinkies will be looking down on people working on these jobs. If these jobs pay a decent salary, it won't be that natural to look down on the workers doing these "dirty" jobs.

PAP have no creativity, they only know some basic governance, where they learn from british. They only look at short term gain for themselves, not the long term effect with the local population.

 

[Sir_Fcuk]

I want to register, can or not?

 

[yuelao]

you are being retarded, because you cannot distinguish between the issue of admitting foreign doctors to reduce cost and meet demand, and the issue of quality of doctors.

doctors cannot freely practice anyway they desire, their qualifications may not be recognized in that particular country.

and you shoot yourself in the foot, u say SMC is there to safeguard pay of doctors - so that's exactly why we should import foreign doctors because that will lower local doctor's pay and lower health costs. consultation fees form a big chunk of medical expenses.

the problem isn't admitting foreign doctors, its admitting lesser qualified doctors. and this is the fault of the SMC or hospitals or whoever is in charge of quality control.

the policy is sound. the main implication of your argument to shut the doors to foreign doctors is substantially higher medical care costs.

You are a real fool. The medical profession although different from other professions in the impact, is essentially the same in certain market aspects. When you open up the field, you will get hordes of substandard doctors coming in. This is what happened in the engineering and IT professions. It is difficult to specify the criteria for accreditation because you won't know how good a person is until he starts doing his work. In the case of engineering and IT, the government disregarded the need for any kind of quality assurance, knowing that it is going to be difficult.

The same thing will just happen to the medical profession as well. There will soon be a slide in standards because you simply do not know how to set the bar if the field is open to competition from everywhere. If you are going to limit the intake to only a few reputable universities, the next question will be which universities will be in the list. It will not be easy to weed out the quacks once the gates are thrown open. Just look at the IT industry if you want an indication of what will happen.

You are a stupid fuck. :oIo:

 

[Cruxx]

Is this the stupid fuck?

 

[bryanlim1972]

You are a real fool. The medical profession although different from other professions in the impact, is essentially the same in certain market aspects. When you open up the field, you will get hordes of substandard doctors coming in. This is what happened in the engineering and IT professions. It is difficult to specify the criteria for accreditation because you won't know how good a person is until he starts doing his work. In the case of engineering and IT, the government disregarded the need for any kind of quality assurance, knowing that it is going to be difficult.

The same thing will just happen to the medical profession as well. There will soon be a slide in standards because you simply do not know how to set the bar if the field is open to competition from everywhere. If you are going to limit the intake to only a few reputable universities, the next question will be which universities will be in the list. It will not be easy to weed out the quacks once the gates are thrown open. Just look at the IT industry if you want an indication of what will happen.

You are a stupid fuck. :oIo:

you are a presumptuous old fart. i agree the government has disregarded quality standards in our first Surge in immigrant numbers. they have paid for it with a historic low share of the popular vote.

it is NOT cast in stone the same thing will happen in the medical profession. there is still time for the smc and the hospitals and even regular doctors on the ground, to take action and stop something like this. i know many local doctors take great pride in their work - if they saw the foreign doctors fucking it up, i am hopeful they will not stay silent. a simple peer review system made compulsory for ALL foreign doctors as a precondition for their annual practice licence could help to ensure quality standards. and the government wouldn't need to move mountains to make this happen.

your are approaching senility.

 

[yuelao]

it is NOT cast in stone the same thing will happen in the medical profession. there is still time for the smc and the hospitals and even regular doctors on the ground, to take action and stop something like this. i know many local doctors take great pride in their work - if they saw the foreign doctors fucking it up, i am hopeful they will not stay silent. a simple peer review system made compulsory for ALL foreign doctors as a precondition for their annual practice licence could help to ensure quality standards. and the government wouldn't need to move mountains to make this happen.

Lol, you are either naive beyond words or you are retarded. You think a peer review system is going to work when there is a majority of foreign doctors in the system. The peer review system is manned by humans. There will be loopholes aplenty especially when conflicts of interest arise and egos are at stake. You expect the government/SMC to slap their own face by admitting they let in substandard doctors? The only solution is to close the gates and ensure that the small amount allowed to pass through are vetted and monitored properly. It is much easier to address quality when the number of unknowns is small. Just ask yourself, can you even fight your enemies when they have already poured through the gates of the city? :oIo:

 

[yuelao]

PAP have no creativity, they only know some basic governance, where they learn from british. They only look at short term gain for themselves, not the long term effect with the local population.

Due to their dominance in government, they have created many problems by taking things to the extreme instead of starting with small steps to gauge the results first. They have always stated the danger of not being able to implement policies quickly for a small country like Sinkandpoor but they did not tell you about the danger of overdoing things for a small country like Sinkandpoor.

 

[aangsc]

this is obviously a problem of poor planning by Prime minister's office. with so many ministers based there, its a shock they couldn't coordinate the various ministries to deal with the surge in immigrants.

anyway the only solution they have is to import in the short term, it takes 6+ years to train a new doctor.

Sure , that is short term ? What is the long term plan ? Convert the FT to citizen and call them Singaporean ? Where to find the Singaporean to fll the jobs when the younger parents do not even want to have children. A permanent solution must start with making Singapore a great place to have children and start family, now how are they going to do that when they failed miserably with all the incentive in place.

 

[limpeh2]

a simple peer review system made compulsory for ALL foreign doctors as a precondition for their annual practice licence could help to ensure quality standards. and the government wouldn't need to move mountains to make this happen.

LMAO... peer review is the furthest thing from a objective quality control policy that you can have. From the swarm of overseas-trained foreign doctors infiltrating Spore, many have already been pushed into plum roles & positions of power without even having paid their dues or possessing the proper experience. They're already influencing Sporean health/accreditation policies here to make it easier for their own to be accepted here. As with IT & other fields already invaded by a rather tribal foreign demographic from a certain subcontinent, they'll not only hallow our medical field out with mediocrity, it's known that they'll be taking it easy with their compatriots whilst inviting more in, like a true infestation.

For your sake I hope you're just another self-interested foreigner trying to con perceptions, otherwise, I've to seriously question your intellectual development.

Whatever it is, you'd better pray you won't be at the wrong end of an overseas-trained foreign doctor's scalpel blade.

 

[bryanlim1972]

Lol, you are either naive beyond words or you are retarded. You think a peer review system is going to work when there is a majority of foreign doctors in the system. The peer review system is manned by humans. There will be loopholes aplenty especially when conflicts of interest arise and egos are at stake. You expect the government/SMC to slap their own face by admitting they let in substandard doctors? The only solution is to close the gates and ensure that the small amount allowed to pass through are vetted and monitored properly. It is much easier to address quality when the number of unknowns is small. Just ask yourself, can you even fight your enemies when they have already poured through the gates of the city? :oIo:

Now ur either dyslexic or dishonest. The thread clearly says 60% of docs registered in 2010 ONLY are foreigners. Local doctors still are in the majority.

You have given no effective argument against the peer review system. What specific loopholes do u see in ur senile old mind? What conflicts of interest? These are just hollow motherhood statements without substance.

You are advocating higher medical care costs for all, and the bottom 20% will be hit the most.

The peer review system is but one possible way of ensuring quality. Our million dollar cabinet can come up with other more specific QC measures.

 

[Checker]

This is the same quick-fix as almost every problem. Immigration to solve low birth-rate, lack of doctors, lack of scientists, lack of nurses, lack of bus-drivers .... etc

This cycle feeds itself : more people = more sick people = need more foreign doctors as local numbers not enough and it takes 6-12 years to train a GP or specialist. Also, population is aging, so need even more doctors.

Yes, foreign doctors help pressure prices down. Not only of doctor's salaries. Since docs are 'elites', lower doc salaries also helps justify lower salaries of other elites. Same way how cheaper foreign workers push down salaries.

But have healthcare costs really decreased? Healthcare profits have only shot up. Big healthcare groups have paid record prices to buy up private hospitals, for land to build more hospitals.

What can happen (is happening) is low-cost basic healthcare in govt hospitals for majority by lower-cost foreign docs. Face it, they're here mainly for economic reasons. They will work hard and do their best. But different culture/ language. Simple medical problems anybody can solve. But will they put their heart and soul in helping solve your complex medical problem? No... work hard, follow rules, make money, go Australia, UK, USA if possible...

Most Singapore docs, and the most experienced, best ones, will end up working in private sector. This sector serve not only the many rich SG but also serve the rich in neighbouring countries where medical care much poorer. This is a huge market. Prices for good medical care have only gone up and up, and will only go higher. Too many patients as neighbouring countries get richer, too few good well-trained docs.

But the catch is when too many good docs leave the govt/ university, then the training of young docs suffer. Then the entire healthcare system's standard drops. But then, bring in foreign medical schools. But they don't come cheap. And the same problem with heart and soul comes in. Can rich foreign medical teachers living in Orchard Rd condos inspire young SG docs to devote their lives to caring for the poor, do research to find new cures... or inspire them to set up clinic in Orchard Rd to be just as rich?

 

[Fook Seng]

This is the same quick-fix as almost every problem. Immigration to solve low birth-rate, lack of doctors, lack of scientists, lack of nurses, lack of bus-drivers .... etc

This cycle feeds itself : more people = more sick people = need more foreign doctors as local numbers not enough and it takes 6-12 years to train a GP or specialist. Also, population is aging, so need even more doctors.

Yes, foreign doctors help pressure prices down. Not only of doctor's salaries. Since docs are 'elites', lower doc salaries also helps justify lower salaries of other elites. Same way how cheaper foreign workers push down salaries.

That is the problem with micro-engineering of our society. The moment you forget to manage, the world goes tipsy topsy. Don't you think this was the result of limiting the number of local students into the medical schools of our local universities?

 

[GoldenDragon]

Don't you think this was the result of limiting the number of local students into the medical schools of our local universities?

Yes, this is the result of a big failure on the part of MOE and MOH. They did not anticipate this problem. Ditto Ministry of Communication (then) for transport issues today and MND for housing problems. In a nutshell, our world class political leadership and civil servants failed the basic test.

 

[Fook Seng]

Yes, this is the result of a big failure on the part of MOE and MOH. They did not anticipate this problem. Ditto Ministry of Communication (then) for transport issues today and MND for housing problems. In a nutshell, our world class political leadership and civil servants failed the basic test.

All because the obsession to micro-engineer.

 

[GoldenDragon]

this is obviously a problem of poor planning by Prime minister's office. with so many ministers based there, its a shock they couldn't coordinate the various ministries to deal with the surge in immigrants.

anyway the only solution they have is to import in the short term, it takes 6+ years to train a new doctor.

How to be a medical hub with such poor planning? Irony is many S'poreans, through their own papa and mama scholarship left our shores for a medical degree and chose to reside where they studied instead of returning home. I doubt the majority will ever base themselves here. Sad case.

 

[limpeh2]

left our shores for a medical degree and chose to reside where they studied instead of returning home. I doubt the majority will ever base themselves here.

The problem is not that straightforward. The SMC has significantly reduced the number of recognised & directly registrable foreign medical degrees for overseas-trained Sporn medical graduates.

 

[Unrepented]

Majority FT docs are CMI. My friend went for mini op for abscess, done by an FT, either viet or cambo.

Then he went to his family doc for follow-up dressing. One look at the surgical cut and his old family doctor exclaimed "Who cut for you!!!" and frowned.:o

After wound heal, my friend touch touch his backside scar and yeah, it wasn't a clean cut, but instead zig-zag multiple cuts. Now he felt mutilated whenever he touches that oversized scar relative to the size of his abscess.

............

don't be blind to some of the benefits of foreign labour. sure, we should not import all the china/india trash to work in service/IT - these jobs should be saved for singaporeans. but for professionals who can hold their own internationally, they should be subject to intense competition to keep costs low for the majority of singaporeans.

Monopolies in the professions only benefit the professionals.