Najib - Malaysia to Abolish ISA

[PTADER]

Dear PT

Malaysia has abused the ISA for the last twenty years. Using it to blatantly suppress political democratic opposition. I believe these abuses have led to it's abolishment. The GOV has not done the same since spectrum and as a tool I would still recommend and support the ISA .

Locke

"Abuse" is not a term that should be reserved only for professionals or Catholics when they are arrested under the ISA.

It is utter rubbish to claim that the "Gov has not done the same" after Op Spectrum unless you view individuals from a minority race and who do not come from any professional class or from the upper strata of society as people who are unworthy of any consideration when they are arrested under the ISA.

It is very simple. If you have the evidence, produce that evidence in an open court and conviction will follow. There's nothing extraordinarily complex about it.

Indonesian Abu Bakar Bashir was charged and convicted in an open court in Indonesia.

Are you saying that the Singapore Government is so useless and hopeless that they are unable to do what the Indonesians have done, i.e. to produce and subject the evidence they have in hand to scrutiny before an open court and secure a conviction in that open court against those they accused?

 

[steffychun]

Singapore has ISA, America has Guantanmo.

 

[HTOLAS]

Well said, just that you should add, 'Guantanamo will haunt the US for a long time to come.'

Singapore has ISA, America has Guantanmo.

 

[PTADER]

Thanks for sharing this with us.

No problem bro. Always happy to show these PAP thugs up by using their very own running dogs, prostitutes and mouthpiece.

These thugs then can't claim "interference", "distortion", "skewed reporting", etc. This is since such reports comes from their very own prostitute press.

 

[PTADER]

here is the answer! No person has ever been detained only for their political beliefs.

Best for them to sue Lim Hock Siew for defamation then. (See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk-TH257ggI&feature=player_embedded )

 

[scroobal]

Except for the 1991 change nothing else has changed. With an authoritarian regime these controls will not serve its intended purpose. This man is clearly a dishonest prick. Lim Hock Siew, Chia Thia Poh and many others were political detainees.

I am fine with detention without trial for terrorist and organised subversives and gangsters but Parliament must proscribe the activity and the organisation first. I like to see the burden rest with MPs and not some self styled idiot.

 

[Goh Meng Seng]

You don't just give a man a big blank cheque and hope that he doesn't abuse it.

Goh Meng Seng

 

[lockeliberal]

[QUO


Dear PT

There is a practical problem with prosecuting terrorist. Conspiracies are hard to proof and your example of Abu Bakar Bashir is an example of perfection where the ISA would stand it in good stead. An Ideological Godfather, preaching Jihad, yet not directly involved with bomb making, his directives in person unrecorded deniable. His conviction release, re conviction in Indonesia speaks volumes about the difficulties involved in the process. Heck even in the US, in acknowledging difficulties there was talk of military tribunals. and OBAMA still has Guantanomo and secret prisions courtesy of the CIA but outsourced


Locke




It is very simple. If you have the evidence, produce that evidence in an open court and conviction will follow. There's nothing extraordinarily complex about it.

Indonesian Abu Bakar Bashir was charged and convicted in an open court in Indonesia.

Are you saying that the Singapore Government is so useless and hopeless that they are unable to do what the Indonesians have done, i.e. to produce and subject the evidence they have in hand to scrutiny before an open court and secure a conviction in that open court against those they accused?[/QUOTE]

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear PT

The process of open conviction is fraught with difficulties, and fraught with minefields for the prosecution. The nature of terrorism has its similarities with the communist cells of the past, covert communications, dedicated men. I believe that even with the evidence presented in court , the current JI group would have been difficult to convict or hold for extended periods and relationships easily deniable in a formal court of law. As it stands removal of the ISA must stand in conjunction with the alternatives and a full discussion of the or what will a prevention of terrorism act entail. Would an ISA lite be acceptable to many here ?



Locke

"Abuse" is not a term that should be reserved only for professionals or Catholics when they are arrested under the ISA.

It is utter rubbish to claim that the "Gov has not done the same" after Op Spectrum unless you view individuals from a minority race and who do not come from any professional class or from the upper strata of society as people who are unworthy of any consideration when they are arrested under the ISA.

It is very simple. If you have the evidence, produce that evidence in an open court and conviction will follow. There's nothing extraordinarily complex about it.

Indonesian Abu Bakar Bashir was charged and convicted in an open court in Indonesia.

Are you saying that the Singapore Government is so useless and hopeless that they are unable to do what the Indonesians have done, i.e. to produce and subject the evidence they have in hand to scrutiny before an open court and secure a conviction in that open court against those they accused?

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear Scroo

I would have thought the people you mentioned as political







Dear Scroo,

How innocent were Chia and Lim as political detainees ? Thats one of the questions I am trying to ascertain as even the CPM is not being honest about who were in their networks in Singapore and the people within the networks were denying they were communist on a legalistic definition or copt out that they were not members but may have had contacts with full members and were willing to be used or be party to their cause ?


Lock=e

Except for the 1991 change nothing else has changed. With an authoritarian regime these controls will not serve its intended purpose. This man is clearly a dishonest prick. Lim Hock Siew, Chia Thia Poh and many others were political detainees.

I am fine with detention without trial for terrorist and organised subversives and gangsters but Parliament must proscribe the activity and the organisation first. I like to see the burden rest with MPs and not some self styled idiot.

 

[PTADER]

Dear PT

There is a practical problem with prosecuting terrorist. Conspiracies are hard to proof and your example of Abu Bakar Bashir is an example of perfection where the ISA would stand it in good stead. An Ideological Godfather, preaching Jihad, yet not directly involved with bomb making, his directives in person unrecorded deniable. His conviction release, re conviction in Indonesia speaks volumes about the difficulties involved in the process. Heck even in the US, in acknowledging difficulties there was talk of military tribunals. and OBAMA still has Guantanomo and secret prisions courtesy of the CIA but outsourced

Locke

That "practical problem" can be resolved by simply enacting new laws specific to acts of terrorism.

The PAP and those who support the ISA are, ironically, adopting the same position as the Malaysian racist and ultra-Malay rights group, Perkasa. The only diffference is that Perkasa is a little more honest in why it wants this "preventive law". This is their stand:

"Perkasa will reject the new anti-terrorism laws the prime minister has proposed if they do not keep to the “preventive spirit” of the recently scrapped Internal Security Act (ISA).

Perkasa president Datuk Ibrahim Ali (picture) said it was necessary to preserve or even improve upon the preventive aspects of the ISA to ensure security forces have a viable “instrument” with which to quickly stamp out subversive activities and keep the nation safe.

The Malay rights leader cited alleged insults to Islam and increasing criticism of Article 153, which accords a special position to Bumiputeras, as examples of activities that could threaten the stability and safety of the people." ​

Nothing mentioned about "terrorism" by Perkasa. Here, the blatant lie is made that it is for "terrorism" instead of what it is really about, political control. The ISA is for instilling and drilling fear into a population who have seen this Act misused and abused by Lee Kuan Yew and his PAP thugs.

Why do you think the Singapore Swivel is still prevalent and Singaporeans still fear that midnight knock on their doors?

Why do you think that people continue to post anonymously? And even as they post "anonymously", why do they still talk about being called up to "lim kopi" with ISD for posting unfavourable posts?

The simple reason is that when you grant absolute power to anyone which is what the ISA is about, it can and will be abused for purposes which it was never intended for.

Do check out on the reason why (ex) President Devan Nair's personal guest and friend, Kalu Sarkar, was arrested and detained under the ISA in March 1984.

Not all arrest under the ISA are "high profile" arrest or made public like the "Marxist's" arrest.



******************

Full Article

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/perkasa-to-reject-new-laws-if-too-unlike-isa/

Perkasa to reject new laws if too unlike ISA

By Yow Hong Chieh

September 18, 2011


KUALA LUMPUR, Sept 18 – Perkasa will reject the new anti-terrorism laws the prime minister has proposed if they do not keep to the “preventive spirit” of the recently scrapped Internal Security Act (ISA).

Perkasa president Datuk Ibrahim Ali (picture) said it was necessary to preserve or even improve upon the preventive aspects of the ISA to ensure security forces have a viable “instrument” with which to quickly stamp out subversive activities and keep the nation safe.

The Malay rights leader cited alleged insults to Islam and increasing criticism of Article 153, which accords a special position to Bumiputeras, as examples of activities that could threaten the stability and safety of the people.

“We know who did it but it’s difficult to prove in court. But security (forces) know who is responsible,” he told reporters here after Perkasa concluded an emergency meeting to discuss the ISA’s repeal.

Ibrahim stressed that there should be no compromises when formulating the new laws as Malaysia’s development and progress hinged entirely on its security, adding that the ISA was one of the most effective tools to ensure the nation’s peace.

He urged the government to discuss the new laws with stakeholders, especially the police, before deciding on the contents of the proposed anti-terrorism laws.

“I hope the government doesn’t bend to political sentiment from any party when creating these new laws... What’s key is that the people should decide on their own security. This is the people’s right,” he said.

Perkasa will meet with Home Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein soon to discuss the details of the new laws, Ibrahim added.

On Thursday night, the prime minister announced that the repeal of the ISA and the three Emergency Declarations when both the Dewan Negara and Dewan Rakyat have their next sitting.

Datuk Seri Najib Razak said new laws will be enacted to protect the peace, harmony and security of the country.

He also announced that the government will do away with annual printing and publishing permits with permits that can be cancelled if regulations are flouted.

Ibrahim also said today that he fully supported the repeal of the Emergency Declarations as there were no longer relevant and called for the abolishment of the Universities and Universities Colleges Act (UUCA), the Official Secrets Act (OSA) and the Printing Presses and Publications Act (PPPA).

He added that Perkasa needed more time to study the proposed amendments to the Police Act before it could make its stand known.

 

[lockeliberal]

Dear PTader

The problem here per say is not " acts of terrorism" there is no need for a specific law after the bomber has gotten through. The problem lies in proving its conspiracy and hence its prevention.

If JI had succeeded in its attempts with bombs in Singapore , we would have no need for a specific terrorism act. Multiple charge of murder would have been enough. The question lies in Conspiracy and proving a conspiracy.

Would you in a " Prevention of Terrorism Act" agree to a lower standard of proof. to on the balance of probability, to closed door trials, so that sensitive intelligence can be presented etc etc.


Locke

That "practical problem" can be resolved by simply enacting new laws specific to acts of terrorism.

The PAP and those who support the ISA are, ironically, adopting the same position as the Malaysian racist and ultra-Malay rights group, Perkasa. The only diffference is that Perkasa is a little more honest in why it wants this "preventive law". This is their stand:

"Perkasa will reject the new anti-terrorism laws the prime minister has proposed if they do not keep to the “preventive spirit” of the recently scrapped Internal Security Act (ISA).

Perkasa president Datuk Ibrahim Ali (picture) said it was necessary to preserve or even improve upon the preventive aspects of the ISA to ensure security forces have a viable “instrument” with which to quickly stamp out subversive activities and keep the nation safe.

The Malay rights leader cited alleged insults to Islam and increasing criticism of Article 153, which accords a special position to Bumiputeras, as examples of activities that could threaten the stability and safety of the people." ​

Nothing mentioned about "terrorism" by Perkasa. Here, the blatant lie is made that it is for "terrorism" instead of what it is really about, political control. The ISA is for instilling and drilling fear into a population who have seen this Act misused and abused by Lee Kuan Yew and his PAP thugs.

Why do you think the Singapore Swivel is still prevalent and Singaporeans still fear that midnight knock on their doors?

Why do you think that people continue to post anonymously? And even as they post "anonymously", why do they still talk about being called up to "lim kopi" with ISD for posting unfavourable posts?

The simple reason is that when you grant absolute power to anyone which is what the ISA is about, it can and will be abused for purposes which it was never intended for.

Do check out on the reason why (ex) President Devan Nair's personal guest and friend, Kalu Sarkar, was arrested and detained under the ISA in March 1984.

Not all arrest under the ISA are "high profile" arrest or made public like the "Marxist's" arrest.



******************

Full Article

http://www.themalaysianinsider.com/malaysia/article/perkasa-to-reject-new-laws-if-too-unlike-isa/

Perkasa to reject new laws if too unlike ISA

By Yow Hong Chieh

September 18, 2011


KUALA LUMPUR, Sept 18 – Perkasa will reject the new anti-terrorism laws the prime minister has proposed if they do not keep to the “preventive spirit” of the recently scrapped Internal Security Act (ISA).

Perkasa president Datuk Ibrahim Ali (picture) said it was necessary to preserve or even improve upon the preventive aspects of the ISA to ensure security forces have a viable “instrument” with which to quickly stamp out subversive activities and keep the nation safe.

The Malay rights leader cited alleged insults to Islam and increasing criticism of Article 153, which accords a special position to Bumiputeras, as examples of activities that could threaten the stability and safety of the people.

“We know who did it but it’s difficult to prove in court. But security (forces) know who is responsible,” he told reporters here after Perkasa concluded an emergency meeting to discuss the ISA’s repeal.

Ibrahim stressed that there should be no compromises when formulating the new laws as Malaysia’s development and progress hinged entirely on its security, adding that the ISA was one of the most effective tools to ensure the nation’s peace.

He urged the government to discuss the new laws with stakeholders, especially the police, before deciding on the contents of the proposed anti-terrorism laws.

“I hope the government doesn’t bend to political sentiment from any party when creating these new laws... What’s key is that the people should decide on their own security. This is the people’s right,” he said.

Perkasa will meet with Home Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Hussein soon to discuss the details of the new laws, Ibrahim added.

On Thursday night, the prime minister announced that the repeal of the ISA and the three Emergency Declarations when both the Dewan Negara and Dewan Rakyat have their next sitting.

Datuk Seri Najib Razak said new laws will be enacted to protect the peace, harmony and security of the country.

He also announced that the government will do away with annual printing and publishing permits with permits that can be cancelled if regulations are flouted.

Ibrahim also said today that he fully supported the repeal of the Emergency Declarations as there were no longer relevant and called for the abolishment of the Universities and Universities Colleges Act (UUCA), the Official Secrets Act (OSA) and the Printing Presses and Publications Act (PPPA).

He added that Perkasa needed more time to study the proposed amendments to the Police Act before it could make its stand known.