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The PE in Retrospect

scroobal

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am sure after a night's rest, we all woke to the reality that a PAP man is now in the Istana. Here are couple of points;

1) Tan Jee Say has to carry the can on this and not the voters. As a man who went into politics, he should have known the consequence of vote splitting. If the plan was to raise his profile, I think it backfired terribly. He will remember this day for all the wrong reasons.

2) I don't blame the voters as they have other important thing in life to follow than the politics of the day. They cannot be expected to read between the lines. Especially so when the state press is prevalent. There was also continued hunger on the ground for checks and balances and desperation set in.

3) The Social Media had a lot to play. The state controlled press is a captive and it was left to the social media to articulate the position of the voiceless and champion those who reached out the most. In this respect, they rightly or wrongly pushed TJS as their choice. The high falutin thinkers typically tend to write profound prose and to gain credibility tend also to sit on the fence. It did not help the man on the ground.

4) The construct of the PE is very different from that of GE. The PAP in its wisdom intentionally made it non-partisan and required candidates to leave their parties. It also threw a spanner in the works. It gave the impression that any form of political party input was taboo. As a result the role of party elders was undermined and any opportunity to mediate and negotiate between like minded contenders was lost. We could have avoided 3 cornered fights at every elections except for the usual mavericks and it did serve its purpose.

5) The role played by Nicole Seah, Jeannette Aruldoss and other similar identities did have an impact. They were known, they were respected and they had admirers. They should have known better. If they had sought out the opinion of the opposition elders, they would have received a reading of the ground and a background of TCB. It obviously did not occur.

6) The role of NSP. This must be a surprise to some when I add this but I think party discipline and party coordination is key when you taken on the PAP. Of all the parties, NSP broke into different camps and assumed it was non-partisan. They played into the hands of the PAP. They did not understand that their supporters take their cue from those in the party. NSP itself help split the votes.

7) Let me highlight one party that showed tremendous restraint and certainly not in line with their past. SDP and Chee was exemplary in the current hustings. They provided support, logistics, manpower but they did not flash their brand of politics. It is not a brand that works for PE and they must have read it right.

Lastly, we all stuffed up. From Alex Au, Lucky Tan to you, me and the dog named boo all stuffed mightly. We played to the tune of PAP. Instead of forming a loose alliance and seeing the bigger picture, we talked about inconsequential matters such as females representation in the working sector, 377A, Marxist Conspiracy, Investment track record, voice of the people, people's council etc. The reality is that the President has no say in an of this. It is largely a ceremonial office with some checks and balances.

In the main Tan Jee Say should have withdrawn when he knew that it may lead to votes being split. He should have done a Chiam in this instance. It would have been easier for the voters who after all is the common man in the street.
 

LeMans2011

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think this "blame-TJS" game has to end. The only reason TT won, and a lot of votes from opposition wasted on TCB who is quasi-PAP, is because you voters chose that. It is that simple: If you 40% opposition voters cast most of your votes for TJS, even TKL could not have killed his chances. It is this trying to be too smart of endorsing TCB that handed victory to Tony Tan.
 
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kukubird58

Alfrescian
Loyal
hahaha....again waste of bandwidth with all the blah blah blah....
tt won simply because there was no clear baboon in this case........period.
 

HedgeTrader

Alfrescian
Loyal
NSP itself looks split like hell. I agree SDP is smart like hell to play silly NSP girls upfront. None of SDP high profiles came out to say anything but it's clear SDP is behind the logistics to guarantee minimum 20%. TKL was the political fool of all. Sure to lose deposit if SDP choped 20% for TJS and PAP choped 60% between TT and TCB. The balance 20% split four ways, how to not lose deposit. PAP is clear winner as far as PE concerned. I already said both TT and TCB are PAP, with TCB playing reserve and alternative just in case. But wider politics beyond PE, WP won bigtime. The silent message is very loud and clear. President can't check and balance government. Only opposition can. Only opposition viable is WP.
 

refulgence

Alfrescian
Loyal
Anti-TT guys are in the second stage of griefing - anger, and TJS is the convenient target. Few focused on the fact that TT almost lost, and would have, had the campaigning continued for another week. Although no one has claimed to possess prescience after the fact, many casually assumed perfect hindsight. Surely the protagonists themselves would have acted differently if they had any inkling as to how the electorate would respond to a 4-cornered fight. On the same note, with respect to the theory that TJS was planted as an unsuspecting candidate by the ruling elite to draw votes away from TCB, more credit is given to the artfulness of the PAP than they actually deserve.
 

Liquigas

Alfrescian
Loyal
Yes, we cannot blame TJS or even TKL for TT victory when the blame should be on the 40% voters who supported opposition candidates in the last GE. Based on the final result we now know that of this 40% opposition vote bank, only 25% actually voted for TJS with 5% of the votes going to TKL and another 10% to TCB. The opposition voters are divided and not a united lot and had the hardcore and moderate opposition voters vote in unison for a truely independent and non-PAP linked figure, TJS would have won. Afterall, TCB is a PAP man through and through.
 

cass888

Alfrescian
Loyal
Lanchiow understand. TCB got 35%. TJS got only 25%. Only jaundiced eyed people like you will think TCB should have given way to TJS.

Believe it or not TJS is going down as the most hated man in history, though admittedly he should be the 2nd most hated man since TKL should have received that honour.

I think this "blame-TJS" game has to end. The only reason TT won, and a lot of votes from opposition wasted on TCB who is quasi-PAP, is because you voters chose that. It is that simple: If you 40% opposition voters cast most of your votes for TJS, even TKL could not have killed his chances. It is this trying to be too smart of endorsing TCB that handed victory to Tony Tan.
 
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Forvendet

Alfrescian
Loyal
HTML:
Told you all so, TT would win. Most opposition supporters here think that 40% voted opposition and must vote opposition or at least opposition leaning candidate again. They call people who switch voting patterns stupid or ballless or something like that. The ones who're wrong and pitifully stupid are they themselves. The voters who switch voting patterns are the smart ones. That's intelligent democracy according to choice in the circumstance.

If we must all vote one way to define stupidity or not, that's sheer stupid democracy, and you don't get to define it anyway. It's hooligan badgering, oh you don't vote the same as me, you must be stupid and ballless. I've got brains and balls to tell political hooligans like that to fuck off, I'll vote what I choose, not necessarily the same as you. And I'll accept whoever wins, not necessarily the one I vote for but preferrably so of course. That's democracy.
 
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PTADER

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Loyal
I think this "blame-TJS" game has to end.

Agree. It has gone on long enough and has become too much of an unhealthy obsession and unnecessary blame game. As I said in another thread, I am sure TJS' supporters would be able to muster an argument along similar lines and blame TCB for TT being handed the Presidency.

If there is one person that we need to put a blame on and we want to be honest about it, it is TCB himself. He has performed poorly at the hustings. I m not saying this behind his back because I will tell him in person when we meet. I know of quite a number of people who changed their minds about voting for him because of his poor performance during the hustings. If not for "brand name" recognition, he may well not even get that 35%.

There is no point trying to do the PAP work in tearing down oppositionists. It will simply lead to a tit-and-tat response which has happened many time before. As I said, if such sentiments continue and becomes widespread, no good people and professionals worth their salt would want to come onboard the opposition bandwagon. They will be discouraged and will not want their names dragged through the m&d for doing nothing more than stepping forward to contest the PAP. And I know for a fact there are many good people and professionals waiting in the wings. I am in touch with some of them.

What we will be left with are the kacang putihs and kucing kuraps who can only play suicide squad and those who hope to tikam-tikam their way to a $200,000+/year MP allowance.

Best to move on and work towards unifying the opposition because no opposition parties are moving anywhere anytime soon except to remain $200, 000+ / year kucing kurap village headmen if they refuse to be unifed and get their act together.

Hopefully, that is not actually what they want or be contented with just because some have been allowed to feed from the same PAP pig's trough.
 

PTADER

Alfrescian
Loyal
I reproduce Checker's post on this issue which I think makes worthwhile reading:

Is it TJS's job to elect TCB or play up a split in PAP? He's hero to his own 25% core base. Abandon them to back TCB? If TCB won, will that base be very happy? No way. TCB is still seen as PAP, and TCB’s priority if he won, would be reconciling with the TT-PAP base, not the left. TJS’s left-base will brand him as a flip-flopper without integrity. Bridge there is burnt. That base would then have turned to TKL who would have been enboldened, and still lose anyway. Unlikely the moderate PAP/ WP will pick up the slack and strongly back a flip-flopper. So illogical TJS could have easily backed TCB to win.

The results are what they are. The surprise is how much TCB ate into TT and that they came so close. The split in the PAP is going to need a lot of attention and soul searching. They basically gave themselves a bloody nose and washed dirty laundry too. Almost everybody believed it would be a close win for TT - some fantasised for better - but few thought it would be that close! TCB will have to make friends with TT-base whether he wins or loses, and the same for TT. Would be crazy if they don't already know the key to their dominance is unity (and lack of unity elsewhere). TT will have a crowning career but will have to heal a lot of wounds. TJS’ career has just started because he stayed true.
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
I think this "blame-TJS" game has to end. The only reason TT won, and a lot of votes from opposition wasted on TCB who is quasi-PAP, is because you voters chose that. It is that simple: If you 40% opposition voters cast most of your votes for TJS, even TKL could not have killed his chances. It is this trying to be too smart of endorsing TCB that handed victory to Tony Tan.

While I don't blame TJS, I voted for TCB for among other reasons that only TCB can gain a substantial number from the pro-PAP voters. The only way TT can be defeated is for a candidate to take PAP and opposition votes. TJS cannot get anything from the 60.1%. If TCB did not contest, his votes will go to TJS and also to TT and TJS still lose.

If some opposition votes went to TJS, TJS and TCB will each have 30% which doesn't make a difference. Let TT live with the narrow margin is better.
 

PTADER

Alfrescian
Loyal
Let TT live with the narrow margin is better.

Agree. There is a silver lining in this and that is the utter humiliation of an ex-DPM, after all those "endorsements" and years in Government, being a 35% President and pretending to still have a "mandate" to represent all Singaporeans.

How the SAF is going to pledge allegiance to a President whose sons have been reported to keng and siam their NS obligations remains to be seen.
 

Perspective

Alfrescian
Loyal
Agree. There is a silver lining in this and that is the utter humiliation of an ex-DPM, after all those "endorsements" and years in Government, being a 35% President and pretending to still have a "mandate" to represent all Singaporeans.

How the SAF is going to pledge allegiance to a President whose sons have been reported to keng and siam their NS obligations remains to be seen.

Agree about the humiliating 6 years. It will be worse than Nathan. Many people felt TT was going to win anyway. It was because of the narrow margin that people blamed TJS. But the fact that it turned out to be 35.2 and not 60.1 says alot.
 

mojito

Alfrescian
Loyal
The opposition voters are divided and not a united lot and had the hardcore and moderate opposition voters vote in unison for a truely independent and non-PAP linked figure, TJS would have won. Afterall, TCB is a PAP man through and through.

Au contraire, mon ami. Now we know the hardcore opposition voters is small but united. So united in the loathing for the MIW, so blinded by feelings that we fail to see the big picture. As scroobal mentioned, voters can be forgiven for not seeing the big picture. Seasoned politicians should know better, but I fear poor TKL and TJS cannot claim to be so.

12 months bonus for the brilliant architects who have brought us the 4 corner fight! What a great call! Had you used their talents constructively in policy making instead of fixing elections for your paymasters, Singapore would be much better off.
:oIo::oIo::oIo:
 

liongsum

Alfrescian
Loyal
I am sure after a night's rest, we all woke to the reality that a PAP man is now in the Istana. Here are couple of points;

1) Tan Jee Say has to carry the can on this and not the voters. As a man who went into politics, he should have known the consequence of vote splitting. If the plan was to raise his profile, I think it backfired terribly. He will remember this day for all the wrong reasons.

7) Let me highlight one party that showed tremendous restraint and certainly not in line with their past. SDP and Chee was exemplary in the current hustings. They provided support, logistics, manpower but they did not flash their brand of politics. It is not a brand that works for PE and they must have read it right.

In the main Tan Jee Say should have withdrawn when he knew that it may lead to votes being split. He should have done a Chiam in this instance. It would have been easier for the voters who after all is the common man in the street.

TJS seemed determined to have a piece of the action, if not as a supporter, then pit himself in. Splitting votes be damned must be on his mind. WP was the most restrained. TCB must have garnered a lot of votes from this silent camp (they practically prodded George Yeo to run). Never, he has his mind on the 500K. Don't speak of him and Chiam in the same breath.
 

Forvendet

Alfrescian
Loyal
Although I voted TT, I'd have to agree - TCB would have won and won comfortably had TJS not come into play. But my belief is still the same, both TT and TCB are PAP and one of them would win. There's not much to choose between them. I don't believe in that TCB bullshit about independence anyway, much less the bullshit from TJS and TKL. I chose TT because I couldn't bear to spoil the vote and at least he's honest enough with the presidential role.
 

refulgence

Alfrescian
Loyal
I reproduce Checker's post on this issue which I think makes worthwhile reading:


Many thanks for the re-post.

Checker's analysis is insightful and refutes many of the arguments put forth by those who vilify TJS as a clog in some nefarious PAP plot to split TCB's votes. In particular, he points out how the dynamics is likely to play out, had TJS decided, hypothetically, to withdraw his candidacy and throw his support behind TCB. The so-called left base would be disfranchised by the absence of a non ex-PAP candidate and while it is uncertain how the votes would be split between TCB and TKL, there is no doubt TJS' credibility would be destroyed by such a flip-flop.
 

zhihau

Super Moderator
SuperMod
Asset
7) Let me highlight one party that showed tremendous restraint and certainly not in line with their past. SDP and Chee was exemplary in the current hustings. They provided support, logistics, manpower but they did not flash their brand of politics. It is not a brand that works for PE and they must have read it right.

kudos to the SDP on the count that they provided great support... imagine TKL's vote count if they threw their weight behind TKL, a whole different ball game altogether, aye? :p:p:p
 
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